Thoroughbred Cafe
16,779 topics in this forum
-
- 136 replies
- 4.6k views
-
- 1.5k replies
- 264.7k views
-
- 1.9k replies
- 257.1k views
-
- 13 replies
- 1.2k views
-
- 3 replies
- 203 views
-
- 5 replies
- 399 views
-
- 55 replies
- 1.2k views
-
- 64 replies
- 6.3k views
-
- 22 replies
- 1.9k views
-
- 6 replies
- 1.2k views
-
- 0 replies
- 317 views
-
- 14 replies
- 1.6k views
-
- 49 replies
- 3.8k views
-
- 7 replies
- 1k views
-
- 17 replies
- 845 views
-
- 10 replies
- 1.4k views
-
- 1 reply
- 572 views
-
- 0 replies
- 369 views
-
- 14 replies
- 1.5k views
-
- 3 replies
- 796 views
-
- 2 replies
- 824 views
-
- 26 replies
- 2.4k views
-
- 64 replies
- 5.7k views
-
- 4 replies
- 810 views
-
- 46 replies
- 3k views
.thumb.jpeg.8b519ff20c4588a11f4d6d465b34743f.jpeg)
RaceCafe News-
Member Statistics
-
Latest Posts
-
Yes, I appreciate that. For me, MIDDLE EARTH isn't good enough on what he's shown - he's rated 114 and he's up against 120+ runners. I realise they want the progeny of Roaring Lion to establish themselves as potential stallions. -
I don't think any one of the above won the King George and Queen Elizabeth Stakes which is what the article is about. I missed that. How stupid of me. But I will ramble on about the tenuous relationship between a mare's race performance and the performance of her offspring at stud. I prefer to use numbers and ignore the races they won, or black type earned. Below is a list of the offspring of each racemare and the top rating of each foal (3yo+) if I have it. This is what I have in my data and it could be incomplete/faulty. King George VI & Queen Elizeabth II winners Enable (2014) (f) rated 129: - no offspring Park Top (1964) (f) rated 131:- Willow Song (1972) (f); Uppark (1976) (f) Danedream (2008) (f) rated 128 :- Solid Dream (2015) (g); Faylaq (2016) (g); Online Dream (2018) (f); Togai (2019) (m) Taghrooda (2011) (f) rated 125 :- Almighwar (2017) (m); Israr (2019) (m) Aunt Edith (1962) (f) rated 128:- Traditionalist (1968) (m); My Great Aunt (1970 (f); Our Relation (1971) (f); Frivolous Relation (1978) (f); Legitimate (01980) (f); A Foreign relation (1981) (f) Pawneese (1973) (f) rated 131 :- Perichole (1981) (f); Poughkeepsie (1982) (f); Pawnee Dancer (1989) (f) Time Charter (1979) (f) rated 130 :- By Charter (1986) (f) rated 99; Zinaad (1989) (m) rated 118; Not Before Time (1991) (non runner); Time Allowed (1993) (f) rated 114; Illusion (1994) (m) rated 107; Generous Terms (1995) (m) rated 106; Time Saved (1996) (f) rated 91; Charterhouse (1997) (m) rated 65; Time Honoured (2000) (f). Dahlia (1970) (f) rated 135 :- Mobcap (1977) (f); Balcones (1978) (m); Decadrachm (1979) (m); J O Dahlia (1980) (m); Dahar (1981) (m) rated 125; Rivlia (1982) (m); Begonia (1983) (f); Delegant (1984) (m); Dahlia’s Image (1985) (f); Wajd (1987) (f) rated 122; Dahlia’s Dreamer (1989) (f) rated 89; Llandaff (1990) (m) rated 132; Miss Dahlia (1994) (f); Tani (1996) (f) NR; ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………. Other top racemares Goldikova (2005) (f) rated 131 :- Goldikovic (2013) (m); Terrakova (2014) (f); Goldika (2016) (f); Alikova (2017) (f); Goldistyle (2018) (f) Allez France (1970) (f) rated 136 :- Ave France (1980) (f); Air De France (1984) (m); Action Francaise (1985) (f); Allons Enfants (1988) (f) User Friendly (1989) (f) rated 129: - User History (1996) (f); User Cat (1998) (f) NR; Dream Merchant (2000) (g) rated 71; Two Miles West (2001) (g) rated 115; Streets Of Gold (2002) (g) rated 96; Starspangled (2003) (f) rated 90; Downtown (2004) (f) rated 105; Sweet Sixteen (2005) (f) rated 89; Banyan Tree (2007) (g) rated 87; Meld (1952) (f) rated 131 :- Lysander (1957) (m); Intaglio (1960) (f); Mellay (1961) (m) NR; Charlottown (1963) (m) rated 127; Canasta Girl (1967) (f); Scarletville (1971) (m); Ragotina (1973) (m); Habibti (1980) (f) rated 132 :- Reem Albaraari (1988) (f) rated 68); Four Seasons (1990) (m) rated 33; Desert Lily (1992) (f) rated 82; Woodbury Lad (1993) (m) rated 73; Nanouche (1994) (f) rated 25; Diamond Habit (1995) (f) NR; Desert Darling (1996) (f) rated 67; Hameeda (1999) (f) rated 79; El Habeeba (2000) (f) rated 45; Oh So Sharp (1982) (f) rated 130 :- Ben Alisky (1987) (m) rated 100; Shaima (1988) (f) rated 114; Rosefinch (1989) (f) rated 117; Devil’s Needle (1990) (f); Felitza (1992) rated 103; Sacho (1993) (m) rated 113; Sharpwitted (1994) (f) rated 58; Outspoken (1995) (g) rated 101; Savoire Vivre (1997) (m) rated 115; Petite Etoile (1956) (f) rated 134 :- Afaridaan (1965) (m); Kazakstaan (1967) (m); Zahra (1974) (m); Noblesse () (f) rated 133 :- Noblesse Oblige (1965) (m); Straight Arrow (1966) (m); Fughetta (1967) (f); Carezza (1969) (f); Where You Lead (1970) (f) rated 120; I know I am wandering away from the King George VI & Queen Elizabeth II race (due off shortly) but here is a little problem about expecting offspring of a mare to perform on the racecourse as well as the mare or close to it. Habibti (1980) (f) rated 132 dam Klairessa), produced nine foals (my data); eight raced with average rating of 59.0 for the lot of them. Habibti's dam was Klairessa. Eight Carat (1975) (f) (dam Klairessa), a mare you are all familiar with (ran five races, race earnings nil) produced five group 1 winners (Octagonal; Mouawad; Kaapstad; Diamond Lover; Marquise) The champion racemare produced nine duds, and the dud racemare produce five champions. When a champion racemare goes to stud you hear that the owners send her to the champion sire "because she deserves it". Habibti went to Green Desert (x3); Sadler's Wells (x2); Hector Protector (x2); Dayjur; Woodman. The reason for Habibti's top ability is she has Tessa Gillian (f) on her dam line and her sire has the full sibling of Tessa Gillian, Royal Charger (m) on Habibti's sire line. The same with Octagonal; Mouawad; Kaapstad - they have Royal Charger on their sire line and the full sibling Tessa Gillian on their dam line. I do a bit of analysis of the rating of runners compared to the rating of their dams (54,138 runners). The higher rated the racemare the higher rated her runners (on average) but it is a much weaker relatioinship than many assume. For good racemares for each extra point of racemare rating you get about 0.25 extra runner rating, and below average racemares produce higher rated runners than themselves. Do not blame the racemare if her offspring do poorly. Blame the owner who picked the wrong (fashionable) stallions for her. -
By We're Doomed · Posted
They really aren't sure what to do with the AWT racing. They love it because they can take meetings off Timaru and Oamaru in the south and close down some northern tracks, which is the whole reason behind AWT racing, but they don't really want to spend much money on them as they are used during the winter months and winter racing no longer counts. A token effort to have those three $100,000 races next month, whoop-de-doo, but otherwise it is treated as second class racing. There is no pattern to it and no logical path for horses to follow. In the SI it isn't used for 2yo racing, not sure what the rationale is behind that. Promoted as the way to prevent abandoned meetings, but we have all seen that is just bull shit and they don't even push that idea anymore. Ideally, AWT racing should cater for a totally separate tier of horses and help contribute to providing racing product. Unfortunately, it appears that all race-meetings run at a loss anyhow so the concept of a cheap source of betting product doesn't really stack up. I know its just me, but I find it pathetic that six northern jockeys fly down at massive expense to ride in those $17,000 races that Gubellini refers to. That isn't what I understand by tiered racing. -
By Pure Steel · Posted
What a tough series to win over the years. Cardigan Bay off 35 yards on a saucer track one of the great wins. Caduceus for New Zealand just prior to that winning at Harold Park in front of 50,000 people. still the record attendance. The public were dismantling parts of the grandstand so they could see the racing removing large panels lol. 🤣. was just saying to PJ about Vinny Knight , one of the greatest horsemen of all time in Australia , and running 2nd in that Auckland InterDominion Grand Final with Popular Alm, had started in 10 Interdominion Grand Finals in a row and didn't even win one for one reason or another . (His stable won 2 though with the 2nd string runner) so that's how hard it is to win. Is my favourite series still and enjoyed quite a few big wins . Blacks A Fake, Leap To Fame, Gammalite, Yulestar , Lightning Blue, Village Kid , and more sadly,😂 the Grand horse Pure Steel came up short like Vinnie and had an Inter Grand Final 2nd and a 3rd and a 4th. but the win eluded him. -
By Alf Riston · Posted
The Inters at Auckland in that era was probably the biggest collection of great horses racing at one time. I'm not sure what they collectively would total in stake earnings converted to todays terms, but it would be staggering. Sadly the Inters aren't what they used to be 😪 -
By Pure Steel · Posted
The Major winning tonight in Queensland too Majorman. MAJOR HOT striding to a big victory in the Queensland Derby. One of only 2 NZers who got some ''Winter rewards by turning up for the Constellations. Trained here by Canterbury Trainers David and Stacey White to a big Group 1 win after having some bad luck with their trotter BET N WIN , who missed a start in the Big Group 1 trot with injury after winning the lead-up race. The 2 year old slot race just went off in a touch over 1.50 for the mile. Absolutely flying for young horses. Leap To Fame's Grant Dixon taking the victory for hometown with his next possible Superstar in FATE AWAITS.. -
You wouldn't think so the way Trumpet campaigned on it in 2016. At least never finishing it means he can't say "I built the biggest a nicest wall anybody has ever seen" -
R6 at Riccarton yesterday R75 race over 1200m. Same $17,000 stake as the Maidens. The 10 starters had won 48 races between them including veteran King Cougar who had won 11 races. Absolutely farcical situation. No trickle down from the largesse at the top end. -
Oohh, that's soooo devious. Lock her up. Lock her up 🤣 it was a good line though
-
-
-
By Tauhei Notts · Posted
Kamala is so devious that she dropped the last three letters "ous" from her second Christian name. -
By Houlahan's Dream · Posted
Right back at you sir. That was hilarious. Had 5 bets all day, nothing doing, until 10 e/w on Chequerboard in the last at Randwick, 12s on B365. Saved my personal bacon and helped us sneak past our illustrious competion. On we roll....;) -
-
By Tauhei Notts · Posted
I am having a little old ladies small bet on the King George. Middle Earth each way. Why/ Its sire died at Cambridge Stud, one of the closest studs to Hobbiton. -
By say no more · Posted
Individual aggregates Pondy still leads the way but Majestic was exactly that today and climbs to second spot. -
-
By say no more · Posted
Points/$$$$ earned in week 2 Have to feel for Aaron and Foxmerts who put up great scores but ran into a team in form. The beauty (or not?) of matchplay. -
-
By say no more · Posted
Apologies - typo on my part. I entered 3-13 and with the scratching of 13 I gave you the sub #6. Result above corrected to reflect the winner - made a big difference to the result of your match. Apologies also to Seddon and Arjay for getting their hopes up.
-
-
Follow and Like Us on Facebook
-
2019 Lexus Melbourne Cup - Full Race (November 5, 2019)
NBAgamingboy2019 - Queen Elizabeth Stakes - Winx
Ace2019 - Australian Derby - Angel Of Truth
Ace2019 - Doncaster Mile - Brutal
Ace2019 - Australian Derby - Angel Of Truth
Ace2019 - Inglis Sires' - Microphone
Ace2018 - Memsie Stakes - Humidor
Ace2019 - Golden Slipper - Kiamichi
Ace2019 ATC George Ryder Stakes
rubicon nz2019 - Newmarket Handicap - Sunlight
Ace2019 - TJ Smith Stakes - Santa Ana Lane
Ace2019 - Australian Cup - Harlem
Ace2019 Auckland cup
Paul Fahey2019 - Magic Millions Classic - Exhilarates
Ace2018 ADDINGTON New Zealand Trotting Cup
rubicon nz2018 Lexus Melbourne Cup - (Full Race) (November 6, 2018)
NBAgamingboy2018 - Mackinnon Stakes - Trap For Fools
Ace2018 - VRC Sprint Classic - Santa Ana Lane
AceWinx wins the 2018 Cox Plate at Moonee Valley Racecourse
Jarrydisme2018 - Kennedy Mile - Best Of Days
AceVictoria Derby 2018 - Melbourne Cup Carnival Flemington Racecourse - 2500m Race
Jarrydisme2018 - Empire Rose Stakes - Shillelagh
Ace2018 - Manikato Stakes - Brave Smash
AceMichael Guerin Chats With Lazarus Trainer Jimmy Takter
TAB NZ2018 - Caulfield Cup - Best Solution
Ace2018 - Toorak Handicap - Land Of Plenty
Ace2018 - Caulfield Guineas - The Autumn Sun
AceRedzel - The Everest (Gr.1) - Randwick 13/10/2018
Equidia2018 - Caulfield Stakes - Benbatl
Ace2018 - Caulfield Guineas - The Autumn Sun
AceRedzel - The Everest (Gr.1) - Randwick 13/10/2018
Equidia2018 - Caulfield Stakes - Benbatl
Ace2019 - Ranvet Stakes - Avilius
AceWinx Turnbull Stakes: Winx wins 28th straight, Hugh Bowman at Flemington
SiteJCBCaulfield - 2018 Underwood Stakes - Homesman
AddictionRacingVIC2018 - Metropolitan - Patrick Erin
Ace2018 - Epsom Handicap - Hartnell
Ace2018 - Flight Stakes - Oohood
Ace2018 - Moir Stakes - Viddora
AceMelody Belle wins Group One Windsor Park Plate at Hastings - 22 September 2018
FortunaNZFinal 400s: Hawke's Bay RI @ Hastings 22nd September 2018
LOVERACINGNZ2018 - Rupert Clarke Stakes - Jungle Cat
AceThe Autumn Sun - 2018 Golden Rose
Weekend KingFlemington Jump Outs 21 Sep Jump out 1
Flemington Racecourse2018 - George Main Stakes - Winx
Ace2018 - Makybe Diva Stakes - Grunt
Ace2018 Run To The Rose
conor macdonald2018 - Theo Marks Stakes - Home Of The Brave
AceSaturday, 1 Sep 2018 - Hawke's Bay RI @ Hastings - Melody Belle - TARZINO TROPHY
nzracingMichael Pitman - Cancer Story
TAB NZYannick Gingras on Lazarus
TAB NZ -
Featured Video
-
Disclaimer
While the owners and managers of RaceCafe endeavour to moderate and control the site and posts on it, they give no guarantee that posts are true and correct, and take no responsibility whatsoever for what individuals post on the site.
Posts do not necessarily reflect the sentiments, views or beliefs of Race Cafe or its owners and management.
The owners and managers of RaceCafe reserve the right to remove posts from the site and to provide details of members whose posts warrant scrutiny.
