Thoroughbred Code

Wonder if he was half the age, would we be having this discussion.Would there be the same concern.

Good points john.........there were doubters from day 1 and obviously bad decisions were made early on with the project and particularly the choice of contractors etc. IMO its important to start with a 'clean slate ' on future plan and not get bogged down with the past , except not to repeat it. Desperate situations need urgent action and the major banker involved will be looking for significant monies to reduce its exposure. Collaboration from stakeholders is crucial and this not always evident in the Harness Industry....it seems .  

Good memory there Jack  I always been one to admire those with outstanding talents ,especially those from the wrong side of tracks. Plus if people treat me well ,and give me a bit of time I will support back strongly if I think a bit of balance necessary. I also put my head up to be shot at with A Clark and one of a few on here to support Tom Wood when he first started out. Plus I usually only talk from experience or from directly asking the person being savaged. I prefer good oil , not gossip or mother in law research. You should consider Journalism ...shame to waste your efforts on cafers only !

When the previous CEO was explaining how well she  wasdoing it did not ring true with me knowing a little about failed trotting clubs.!! All of the comments here are valid and many of us sounded warnings many months ago on this forum. TO SELL OFF land with great tenants as you say is short term desperation and can only be detrimental to the Club in the long term. ATC needs assistance as can not be permitted to collapse. HRNZ must seek Govt. help if necessary to keep the club solvent and may need to put in place a crisis management structure acceptable to them and the bank. I believe it is time for head out of sand for the present Board as any further" shocks" could see the Bank put the Club into receivership. I warned of this possibility at another Club and the only real response from many board Members , 'hrnz would never let it happen "  I personally was having weekly meetings with the Bank as to cash flow and with Council to seek relief . ATC is Harness Racing in the North  and must survive for the future of harness racing.

A colt by Dundeel topped the first session of the William Inglis Great Southern Sale at Oaklands on Sunday when selling for $250,000. The bay is closely related to Group I winners Bonneval, St Reims and Champagne and after an opening bid of $100,000 eventually sold to New Zealand-based Alan Fu for $250,000. The colt was consigned by Glastonbury Farm, Duncan Grimley who described bidding on the colt as 'a feeding frenzy' "That's a great result, he’s a really nice colt,” Grimley said “Dundeel is just going like a machine at the moment. “Everybody on the ground was on the horse. “Expectations would’ve been around $200,000, and he went in with a reserve of $150,000. “It was like a feeding frenzy up there - there was about seven or eight on him at $200,000." Earlier in the session Steve and Ceri Jostler went to $240,000 for a colt by Exceed And Excel out of a winning Zabeel half-sister to New Zealand Group I winner Vosne Romanee.  

Gubes, well done on your win with your horse Porshabelle in the first race at Waipa today. Showed more toe than a Roman soldier again and managed to hold them out today. Congrats. 

I believe that it is planned to be ready for winter next year. 

Thanks. Couple of comments. How the thoroughbred started off 350 years ago and what is has now evolved into I suspect is quite different. I think Berri is pointing out that Galileo works well with fast Danzig blood rather saying inbreeding is the answer. Sadlers Wells and Danzig while both being sons of Danehill were very different in type. Further you might want to look at the Truenicks site. Eg- Galileo with Danehill mares is A+ meaning much higher percentage of SW than the sireline ( Galileo ) with other mares ( non Danehill), and higher than the broodmare sireline ( Danehill )  with other sirelines (non Galileo sires).  As a comparison Galileo and his sons mated with mares by Sadlers Wells and his sons and grandsons is Rated an F.

The three clubs Waikato/Cambridge and Waipa,to the best of my knowledge, are undertaking a feasibility study into the "Greenfields" project. You wouldn't expect any final decision to be made without due diligence being undertaken first. 

They just spout the same line and send you a copy of the rules.  You are  dead right...       Copy sent,   Gazetted in 2009 ...

I suggest that you contact Luke Kemeys by going to the Boys Get Paid website    www.boysgetpaid.com     

294k earnt , loads good days out for connections now needs a decent rev up a long way from home according to a stewards report suggests it's fallen a bit out of love for game , maybe I've gone soft but why would anyone want to keep running it round the back baffles me. What are they getting out of it , surely no one enjoys a good friend as surely he is that to them getting an arse whipping week in week out .They must have  cared for him very very well over the years to their absolute credit , why risk him now for no gain. Normally the people who know they unlikely to get another good one just cannot let go.  Anti Brigade love this sort of stuff, it's their lifeblood .

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Ha Trump quotes Q  Enjoy the show    

I know this was a while ago,but come in BGP or Ted maybe could answer these simple questions! Cheers

Many thanks N. But I gather all racing folk  acknowledge that 4 stallions and maybe less than 200 mares began the “breed” and very quickly 200 years ago the genetic book was slammed shut . Men have been cross breeding ??? from the offspring of the original 4 stallions ever since so to me they are all as good as near full brothers and sisters ! All else is rich men’s dreams and ND and Berri’s post absolutely proves it ? I can see absolutely no reason  why a stallion cannot be mated to his sisters and leave winners. Berri’s post above strongly points to it and Coolmore knows it as their staggering successful results prove. If you got the dough just discard the 20% roarers as the winners will get you glory and more $ 

Perception and reality can be very different and best to analyse a large data set than base a conclusion on a winners of  a few big races! Recent US story on outcrossing- If the definition of an inbred horse is one that has at least one duplicated ancestor between the parents within four generations, then an outcrossed one has no closely duplicated ancestors at all. The majority of the breed is outcrossed, which should relieve the fear that the Thoroughbred is overrun with irresponsible and debilitating inbreeding. It is not. The limited study in last month’s review of inbreeding used winners of the Triple Crown races and 3-year-old male division champions since 2000. Of that very small group of 39 individuals, 15 were inbred (38.5%) and 24 were outcrossed (61.5%). Among the great sires in Kentucky, outcrosses also dominate. In 2014, 16 stallions stood for a fee of $50,000 or more—our proven, elite sires. Of those, 13, or 81.3%, were the result of outcross matings, a serious majority. Studies suggest this is a rough reflection of the population, in that anywhere from 60% to 75% of modern Thoroughbreds, are outcrossed. Is this simply a matter of random population genetics, or is there an advantage to outcrossing? In a mating each parent contributes half of the genetic code, with a wide range of results. In some cases both parents pass on similar genetics, creating a horse that is pure dominant or pure recessive for those traits. This is what’s supposed to happen in an inbreeding program, striving to intensify the genetics so they will be passed on with great predictability. In other cases genes from one parent will outrightly dominate the other parent’s. This is what has happened when we say a horse is prepotent or “stamps his get.” In a third scenario the parents’ genetics will blend to create something in between. This is what most breeders hope will happen, but rarely does, getting the perfect balance. Depending on the differences between the parents, it can be a real crap shoot. In a fourth scenario there is so much favorable genetic diversity coming from either side that the offspring is superior than both parents. This is heterosis, or hybrid vigor, resulting from a high number of heterozygous gene pairings instead of the homozygous pairings often found in inbred stock. It is the Holy Grail of horse breeding because, although racing ability is highly heritable, actual genetic improvement is hard to achieve. Consider that even the greatest stallions sire only 5% to 15% stakes winners and few throw a runner better than themselves. This is also the possibility that comes from outcrossing. Inbreeding concentrates an ancestor’s genes, but every generation forward, that influence is diminished by roughly half. Inbreeding 4x4 to Northern Dancer is only maintaining the influence he had in the third generation of each parent. Unless the inbreeding is very close, say 2x2 or 3x3, it isn’t really effective in intensifying that great ancestor’s influence. The 4x4 standard many of us use to define it is probably not very significant in actual practice, and 3x3 might be a better the standard. Now, take an inbred horse, and cross it with an unrelated one, and the possibility of creating that super-vigorous mix of genes increases dramatically. Inbreeding can create better breeding stock, which is ideal for this very purpose, but outcrossing is more effective in creating a better athlete. Alternating these strategies every generation or two is a highly desirable formula. Look at the pedigrees of some of the greatest racehorses of modern times:Secretariat, Nijinsky II, Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid, Affirmed,Cigar,Curlin,Zenyatta, Brigadier Gerard, Frankel, and Sea The Star, for instance. The majority of these are outcrosses. Of this small group, only Seattle Slew (4x4 Nasrullah), Spectacular Bid (3x3 To Market), and Frankel (3x4 Northern Dancer) are inbred using the 4x4 definition. This tendency for great runners to be outcrossed might also explain why many of these superstars are tagged as disappointments as stallions or broodmares. Everyone hopes they will breed true, but their extreme genetic engineering makes it hard for them to pass on their qualities with consistency. Few of them take a leading sire title, like Seattle Slew, who was actually one of the rare ones inbred by the 4x4 definition, although many of them still make a serious mark. If you need convincing, consider a breeder whose program focuses on favorable outcrossing. Adena Springs, or the farm’s owner Frank Stronach, has won the Eclipse Award for leading breeder eight times.  

On the other code, a horse called Kelly Evander raced from 2003 to 2011, for two 3rds and 3 fourths, went around for a long time and hardly ever raced competitively always a long way back, can't compare the two,but I don't think an astute punter would have lost to much on Kelly, I think she got stood down a few times in her career, but kept on coming back.A far cry from the David's  294k in stakes.

Not saying whether there should be a retirement age or not. The fact is he is probably one of fittest and healthiest 13yo horses in the country. There are many older hunting and endurance horses doing a lot more exorcise time wise. A racehorse races for 1-3min max and are looked after with kid gloves. If he was racing against other 13yo and winning easily would you feel the same....from a horse welfare POV only.

By default Trump is going to fix most problems anyhow by destroying  the corrupt Globalists who control Jacinda But here ya go Within the first week Trump would have pulled out of the Paris scam Pulled out of the Migration Pact Expose Stuff news NZ Herald TVnews for fake  propaganda news Expose all the deep state puppets in govt Reform the looney left indoctrinated education system Reduce the size of govt Reduce and restructure and expose the looney left local councils Restructure the wasteful bureaucratic departments  No race relations commissioner Massive tax cuts Make NZ energy self sufficient and then net exporter of energy Therefore reduced energy prices War on drugs. Expose and break up the gangs Cut immigration by 90% Demand the millions back from the Clinton Foundation Remove job killing regulations. Reduce Compliance RMA For every new regulation you have to remove 10 old ones Speed up infrastructure projects x 10. On time on budget Promote NZ business  Jobs Jobs Jobs Support industries, support farmers, support and fix NZ racing Promote NZ tourism Promote sport Restructure the health system. Reduce drug prices Renegotiate trade deals Clean up any crooked police Clean out crooked intel agencies