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Happy birthday Leigh. Hope you have a ripper

Well for a starter a few winners proves nothing , secondly I was a hobby trainer who mainly only raced the ones I couldn't sell . For the record I bought a weanling by a 1 win Bletchingly horse out of a non winning Gaius mare for $200 and sold for 80k from a trial win , then bought 2 weanlings one season apart , both for $1500 , both out of non winning mares , sold both as 2yos , 1st one sold for 100k after coming from last to run a close 3rd at his only race , never had a trial just J/O's , the 2nd one sold for 80k after winning a trial . Both by Al Akbar , hardly renowned as a 2yo stallion , but hey I just got lucky . Sold a couple of others for a lot less that covered their costs . All of these cheap horses IMO were better than their breeding because they raised exceptionally well . Now to shut you up , I have been involved hands on in breeding and racing for over 40 years . Started working on studs , was stallion handler for One Pound Sterling (when he had McGinty racing) , Icelandic , Grosvenor , Sharivari , Pompeii Court , Zephyr Bay , and a number of other not so successful stallions . My experience to talk about racing and breeding comes from be able to take horses from conception through foaling down , weaning , breaking in , backing the horses myself although I'm 6'4' and was 100kgs , then training horses . I have intermittently worked as foreman for 3 different trainers as well as working for a couple of others and on a part time basis for a couple of others . Now you considered yourself a horse trainer , good for you , there are plenty of those . Now to the other type of horse trainer , the horseman trainer , few and far between and getting skinny on the ground now . I think from your comments you were definitely the first type . For myself I have never considered myself a horse trainer and never set out to become a public trainer , I was a horseman who trained his horses basically because I couldn't afford to pay someone initially and I enjoyed learning , later gave plenty of horse to others to train , best I ever got was a 5th and a lot of excuses . Through all the time I pottered around training , track riders was an issue and mainly why I never got into bigtime and gave it away . As for winners , got a couple , but they were tried because we couldn't sell and never raced for long just fun . I've been on committees , driven horses to races , and sales , throughout NI for well known "trainers" and commercial sellers . Currently race a G2 winner , G1 placegetter , another won a listed race in her 4 wins and 3 placings from 9 starts , and also currently race a promising 3yo with a 2win , 3second a 1 3rd from 8starts and I think a good chance of getting black type , all selected from the TA , 1 year after the other , all selected by my own criteria , not a bad record , or maybe just lucky . My right to express my opinions are based on that 40+ years of hands on experience , and are based around my love of the animals and the industry that I see being dragged into submission and enabled by people such as yourself . But maybe I should just "LIKE IT OR LUMP IT!!!". Now I don't really need nor expect you to stump as I'm comfortable that my experience and knowledge allows me to express opinions .

People don't have to be experts to have an opinion. I'm a great believer in the expert, and happy to ask their advice on things in their field of expertise. That probably applies more to things like plumbing and engineering rather than horse racing. Horses can quickly make a total fool of any "expert". I have fond memories of being in a TAB and seeing High Court judges discussing horses with the local street sweeper. Each had their own opinions, sometimes they agreed. No one could say either person's opinion was superior to the other's despite their different backgrounds. Over the years we have seen people who are absolute experts in their own fields, but who have made a total harsh of trying to run Racing at many levels.

The Trainers' Association. It's their job to stick up for trainers, so every time there's an abandonment, every time there's a flaw in the schedule (no races south of Ashburton for six weeks, one 2yo race in the SI before the Karaka Million), and every time a club tries to make life difficult for a "trouble maker" the TA should be all over NZTR and asking/telling them to fix it. Winter Cup trial abandoned? The TA should've been straight onto NZTR giving them 24 hours to line up a turf meeting between now and Oamaru to run the race. If the TA won't do this, the trainers should be straight onto the TA telling them to do their job. If the trainers won't do this then, like @Tesio said, the trainers need to either grow a pair or just keep getting bent over.

You can back the NZ Warriors Women at $15 to win the comp with TAB. If you had an OZ TAB account you could get $26 or a bet365 $34.... Admittingly. the TAB market book is a fair percentage, probably better than others. However because its NZ the NZ team will understandably be shorter.....so this is another downside of one country monopoly.

I think they should use the system that was in Singapore they had ratings races for horses as low as rating 35...it meant horse could race for much much longer against horses of similar ability...some horses here win a race and thats them done as ability stops them winning again.

I've always been a fan of the Open Entry idea, better than having horses sitting on the ballot. I think all midweek/low grade racing should be open entry. I currently have one of the English jumps lads living with me, we've been talking about the rating system ect over that part of the world. I like the idea of you have 3 maiden runs and then given a rating and you then compete in rating races. I think it keeps horses going for longer, even the slow ones(I'm an expert on them) find their right place in the handicap and can be competitive. He pointed out it gives those honest horses a chance to win a race and not keep running in to some useful horse in maiden grade every time. With our declining foal crops should it be something we really look in to, try and keep the ones that are racing going for longer.

A mate had an interesting analogy on this thread. A guy had a colt, a very good colt, won his way to the top though after a while lost a bit of form, got too colty and was put aside. Folks almost forgot about him until, out of the blue he reappeared, showed new vigour and regained his previous form - as a gelding.

NZTR collects the trainers ass fees for them don't they. Hardly likely to upset them when they are holding hands.

As I said, you do not get the crux of the whole debate. No one is complaining about the AWTs as such. And in the NI they are probably utilised in a sensible manner. In the SI the AWT has been used to try and wipe out several long established clubs and deprive trainers of any option. I have tried to explain this several times. Either you understand it or you don't. I won't try to explain it again. So you are safe from any further debate on this matter.

Because the fields would be decimated...and they cant have that...its all smoke and mirrors.

I've just read the two stories on the PP site. It makes for extremely sad reading, even without any numbers being stated. In fact, it gives no numbers and no reports of progress or potential prices of anything. Maybe, despite earlier assurances Colliers was dealing with as many as five potential purchasers for Pukekohe, there are none? I wouldn't trust this Board one inch (25.4mm), but then there are few - if any - scenarios where things end well for trotting in the Auckland area. Now even the commercial units - of which they were boasting how, only quite recently, were still going to give the club so much income - are on the chopping block. Eventually they will have sold all of the silverware and still be in debt to the bank. What then? The end is nigh.

Yep...as per the 'rule' 640 (1) The following provisions apply to Hurdle Races and Steeplechase Races: (a) in every case where the course to be run is not wholly enclosed by rails or where part of the course is indicated by a special mark of any description, a Stipendiary Steward or official appointed by the Stipendiary Stewards for the purpose shall on the day of the Race explain, indicate or point out to all Riders the course and all flags, posts, drums and boundary marks being used. Any subsequent removal or alteration of any flag, post, drum or boundary mark indicating the course and any new flag, post, drum or boundary mark shall not, unless explained, indicated or pointed out to all Riders by a Stipendiary Steward or other Official of the Race Meeting, have any effect for any purpose in connection with the course; I think we can all see the 'cone' in the wrong hole is a 'special mark' and should've been ID'd as per 'the rules ok'?? According to Jockey R...it wasn't? RIB..."Guilty as charged" aka "Guilty as hell" for not indicating the special mark in the special hole

We're a bit blasé about globetrotting horses these days. Perhaps partly because travel seems to have become more efficient and also through pioneering examples that have proved it possible. Unlike dear old Phar Lap, who went on his odyssey to Tijuana by boat, the likes of Magic Wand and Deirdre have virtually stretched time zones through the calendar year. Triptych was not the first, but she became one of the most obvious early examples. Personal memories of the steely mare return this week ahead of the Coral-Eclipse as, back in 1987, I got the chance to see her in the flesh for the one and only time. As only a child, I won't pretend I knew detailed accounts of her form and background but I was certainly aware that she seemed to run in everything, everywhere. Triptych actually placed in three consecutive Eclipses, having been blown away by Dancing Brave a year earlier, her first season with Patrick Biancone in which she also won the Champion Stakes, ran in Dancing Brave's Arc, the Breeders' Cup Classic and Japan Cup, just for starters. She arrived at Sandown on the back of wins in the Prix Ganay and Coronation Cup and it seemed to me so exotic that a horse who was trained in France and previously Ireland - landing the Irish 2,000 Guineas as a filly for David O'Brien - was also being ridden by the Hong Kong maestro Tony Cruz. It was surely one of the great Eclipses. Mtoto, approaching the peak of his powers, outlasted the Derby winner Reference Point with Triptych, briefly caught in a pocket, looming into contention before looking a bit flat-footed and then charging again into third. Milligram, who had been brilliant in the Coronation Stakes, didn't seem to get home in fifth. It may not be too surprising to learn that Triptych was third to Reference Point later that month in the King George, won an International Stakes, an Irish and English Champion Stakes as well as the Fuji Stakes in Japan. I must admit I was reminded of Triptych again only very recently when Biancone came to Royal Ascot with a first runner since those halcyon days as Lennilu finished a fine third in the Queen Mary. Biancone's reputation was substantially tainted by charges of dubious medication use later in his career. Her fans would prefer to imagine Triptych was not sullied from this and, anyway, it is perfectly valid to imagine she was so tough purely because her family was. Nelson Bunker Hunt, the colourful Texan oil baron, bred Triptych and her dam, Trillion, who he raced with Edward Stephenson. Trillion, a daughter of the powerhouse Hail To Reason, finished second to the unbeaten Wildenstein mare Madelia in the 1977 Prix de Diane and she later filled the same position in the Prix Royal-Oak. The Kentucky-bred became France's best older filly or mare, dictating in the Prix Ganay under Lester Piggott before Piggott and Alleged got the better of her American pilot Bill Shoemaker when he was jetted in for the ride in the Arc. Amazingly Trillion was third in the Preis von Europa a week later before Maurice Zilber sent her Stateside, as he had done with Bunker Hunt's exceptional Dahlia a few years earlier, and she ran respectably in the Washington International and the Turf Classic. Were Triptych a human, you'd like to imagine her as one of those immaculately educated products from expensive lycées and international schools, speaking cut-glass English without any detectable accent of origin. Her father was probably a banker or a spy and she, in turn, a semi-professional skier, actress and model. Nowadays, natch, also an influencer. When she was a yearling, the daughter of regal sire Riverman was bought for $2.15million by Alan Clore at Keeneland as he outbid Stavros Niarchos. When the owner later dispersed his assets, Peter Brant secured Triptych for $3.4m (probably around $9million today) and raced her in his green silks for one final season. Although her standards slightly faltered in 1988, she did collect another Coronation Cup and plenty more frequent flyer points. It's well documented that many great racemares do not reach equivalent status through motherhood but having consecutive generations who demonstrated such tenacity surely suggests some inherited characteristics. Tragically, Triptych herself will never appear directly in a modern family tree as she died when reportedly hit by a farm vehicle in the middle of the night, carrying her first foal by Mr Prospector. Trillion did not produce a vast amount of offspring either but mercifully had a few other fillies to continue this sequence. Triptych's unraced older half-sister, Trevilla, has had the most significant impact. Her daughter Trevillari, also by Riverman so a very close relative to Triptych, was no superstar for Alec and Criquette Head but produced Trevise, famously the dam of the celebrated dual Arc winner Treve. There are quite a few females in this branch of the family and they are now so valuable their careers are tended with care. Treve, who could certainly be considered tenacious herself, had a Royal Ascot winner last year with Doha, who might just have more left to offer on the track, and the champion has a yearling daughter by Frankel still to come. One of Trevilla's other daughters, Sine Labe, was the dam of the top sprinter of the late 90s, Tamarisk. Triptych had two younger full sisters, too. Barger won a Prix Vanteaux in 1986 for Biancone and Bunker Hunt before finishing third in the Prix Saint-Alary. Bankruptcy meant Bunker Hunt liquidated his assets and sold hundreds of his horses. Barger joined the Darley operation, producing the narrow Prix de Diane runner-up Baya. Among her descendants showing the same grit are Divina Grace, who won this year's John Porter Stakes at Newbury, as well as Tawqeet, the stayer who took the 2007 Caulfield Cup. The youngest of Trillion's foals was Triple Couronne, who ran a couple of times for the Wildensteins and Andre Fabre in 1990. Her side spread far and wide and she was the granddam of Del Mar Oaks winner Amorama. Those achievements go back to before Trillion, too. Her dam, Margarathen, was a 16-times winner in hot US handicaps and Trillion was a half-sister of Baronstown Stud's Doff The Derby, the unraced dam of the brilliant Derby winner Generous, multiple Classic winner and broodmare extraordinaire Imagine and Wedding Bouquet, granddam of George Strawbridge's fabulous Moonlight Cloud. From Trillion to Triptych through to Treve. The word we're probably looking for in this family's case is tremendous.

Almost 100% funds them out of licence fees. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

The big question then is why not transfer it to the AWT tomorrow? That track is all set up and ready to go. It's really just a matter of the pie man travelling about 45 minutes further to Awapuni.,

if there had been proper consultation with stakeholders then maybe the 30 million you bleet on about could have been spent much better and had a consensus on what type of tracks to install.

Whose going to pay when replacement time comes around. The life span of these things is quite short.

You really do not understand the crux of this whole debate TA. Lisa had the choice of whether to race on the AWT or the turf. She clearly decided that most of her horses were better suited to $17,000 races on the AWT rather than $35,000 and $40,000 races on a wet grass track, and good on her. The point though, is that she had a choice and could decide what option suited each of her horses. SI trainers do not have a choice. The idea of choice in the SI is basically the equivalent of: bullet or gas chamber?

Nah not quite LOL.

Great movie .

To be fair he sounds more like the guys running the show .

Time to call Dennis https://youtu.be/nMuh33BMZYY?si=kDW7m7Bc-zE7fuIv

Or a HK style system… no maiden races unless they are class 4 restricted races for horses who have not won, which they don’t have a lot of. unraced horses get a rating of 52 to start with - which is Class 4 (40-60 raiting) class 5 - the lowest is 0-40 class 3 60-80 sometimes extended to 85 class 2 80-100 sometimes extended to 105 and class 1 100+, sometimes 90 or 95+ and horses I think in Class 3 and above at 1600m+ plus race for more prizemoney than horses in Class 3 at 1000/1200/1400 to encourage more horses that get over ground. i think that’s how it works

Something I have always thought would work well here was "claimers" or "sellers" depending on whether your from UK or USA . I think they have tried it in harness racing , but the people I knew who were in trotting said people kept putting too high a price on their horses . The main take out I get from this discussion is that we need to be trying different things but everything pretty much stays as it always has been . The open entry thing on the A/W's is more about that the numbers were getting very skinny and they were getting a lot of small fields , more so at Cambridge and Awapuni . So this allows them to fit horses into fields that gives them a decent sized field . I do feel for the mdns that have to race against winners .

Can't quite recall Charlie. Am pretty sure Katrina was a fine horsewoman herself and prepared a few of the ATC president Ron Robertson 's horses for him. Nat McKenzie was a helping hand in that. Katrina might have even won the Lady drivers race with Eagles Three I think . not sure if it was Ron's. Ron Robertson would of got the ATC mess sorted a bit quicker if someone like him in charge. A fine President. He used to have Max Harvey , and even PM Piggy Muldoon there getting in on the action. Ron raced a few with Wayne Fleet as partner too. Not sure if Noel Taylor was in on them . But Noel could train a bit too. Do you remember Dragon's Pride ? an expensive SI purchase by ATC Committee man Noel . Roy and Barry couldn't get it going at all, a major shock , so Noel started training it himself and it started Trotting like a Stag , and won a fair few. Bravo to Noel !!. whatta ripper man he was.

Not even able to VIEW betfair markets in a couple of weeks. You can guarantee those losers in Petone will still be glued to it tho. What a pathetic country we have become.

Bloody sad Idol. That woman and her Board have a lot to answer for. 135 years of history down the drain….

Noel Gibson would not like how ATC is turning out.

As l said before; your thoughts and enthusiasm are several years too late, which, sadly, makes them irrelevant. I don't think Westpac is interested in "but, but, but.........." You suggested earlier that turnaround can be quick with the right management. When you're paying over $100,000 per week just in interest, that's extra money any new management would have to find, on a weekly basis, just to stem the flow. That's not even paying anything back. Who do you have in mind to see The Park rise from the ashes overnight, as overnight is what is needed?

I see that as a positive for betting. If the Warriors women are unders, back one of the Aussie teams at overs. Always back against sentiment.

The ATC has sent out the "Business" for it's Special General Meeting, but it is a secret, so don't tell anybody, ooops, to late, "PP" has a copy. No $ figure for the sale of Franklin Park, but they do admit no chance of $100m; (ii) sale terms which provide for a staggered settlement and/or a reasonably lengthy time period prior to settlement , will result in a higher price being achieved. This means it could be over 18 months before a sale settles in full unless the sale price were significantly discounted also.. Potential Sale of Commercial Units in Buildings A, B and C also..New Lease for the Blues Building The Board of Directors want approval to negotiate for the sale of Franklin Park and the Commercial Buildings, with no further consultation with ATC members, last year there was a revaluation of the Investment properties, they went down in value by $6.7m, now $36.6m, prior year $42m,not the best time to be selling either.

Thanks Ted just another day older . Hopefully a little bit wiser

Yes, comes from the Three Diamond line

I see a lot of people are saying that their betting from offshore providers won't be transferred to the NZ TAB with GEO blocking now in place . Something I have noticed is that in the competition thread a large proportion of people are selecting horses that are in an Aus race , which suggest that there are many people that follow Australian racing , definitely more than me , and hence make me think there is a substantial number who were betting with the Aus bookies . So if that large amount of money doesn't come back to our TAB there are going to be some red faces .

Shortly you will have to pay extra to have the bonus back component to your bet .

Don't know if it's been mentioned already in this thread, but I see the bonus back available on NRL 3+ Same game Multi is now 'up to $10'. Pretty sure it was 'up to $50' this time last week. Subject to being corrected & despite assurances to the contrary, this is step 1 of slashing any & all bonus amounts in line with their new absolute monopoly! Perhaps Consumer NZ can wring their hands & promise to have an internal enquiry by this time next year.

Can't answer that, however open entry races were utilised at some Blenheim meetings, I thought it was a great idea, as it meant [ as alluded to above ] that no-one missed out on a run. However some trainers were against the practice so it was discontinued.

RaceInfo Meetings Meeting News Open Entry Weights – Rangitikei @ Awapuni (4/7) Meeting News Open Entry Weights – Rangitikei @ Awapuni (4/7) Open Entry synthetic track races handicapping guidelines created the potential for anomalies with topweights and is evidenced this coming Friday – Rangitikei RC @ Awapuni. Allocating top weight is based upon recent weight carrying performances on the surface. Island Hop (rating 79) has been assigned 61.5kgs as top weight in the R79 1400m. He was comfortably beaten in 5th (9.10L) at his last start on the surface when assigned weight 62.0kgs. He dropped 1 point to 79. His weight for Friday aligns with this re-rating, ie. a 1 point equals 0.5kg drop. Conversely, Jack Morrison (rating 79) has been assigned 64.5kgs. He won his last start with an assigned 62.0kgs and received a re-rating of +5 points. He rises to 64.5kgs for Friday (5 points = 2.5kgs). The Open Entry synthetic races are a relatively new innovation, and we are endeavoring to strike a balance between not discouraging participation of high-rating horses nor those they race against. There are positives and negatives of the Open Entry system, but the key benefit is virtually every horse is given an opportunity to race on each raceday. For example, at the WTR @ Cambridge meeting (18/6) 30 of 132 entries would not have had a race opportunity, given programs at the corresponding meeting last year.

I think you would need to show us the quote.

Super win for Trump , the big beautiful bill is about to become law , many said it couldn't be done but it's another huge win for Trump and the USA . The point all the sad lefties out there miss is the free world needs a strong USA , it's in all our interests for it to return to a country of super strength , the world at the moment is a dangerous place and in time Trump will become Trump the protector.

Hi Insider, As with you, I have multiple shares in harness, and thoroughbred horses, and that started over 50 years ago. I am now letting my thoroughbred interests run out their racing careers, and I will not reinvest in anymore. Race abandonments due to health, and safety issues with thoroughbred racing, that are now part of the game, and look realistically, making money out of ownership is unlikely, but as owners we want to see our horses race if they are good enough to hit the track. Cheers. Robert.

SUGAR LOAF is a son of Almanzor while JEWELLER is a son of Wootton Bassett. A filly called MATILDA won the German 2000 Guineas by six and a half lengths at odds of 25/1. She's by Soldier Hollow out of a Giant's Causeway mare and she has a half running in Class 4 handicaps in Hong Kong classed CLASSIC ARCHI. MATILDA has been moved from her German stable to the Francois Graffard yard in France - she has an entry in the Matron at Leopardstown in September but her breeding suggests to me she could go 2000m. None of this much help for the German Derby I'm afraid but we'll have the Eclipse declarations out this morning.

I missed out tipping the one last Saturday so I'm hoping lightning can strike twice in a week ! More a loyal selection than confident one. P.S If you throw enough darts you eventually hit the bullseye! I just need to insert a couple of gaps around the course for this one on Saturday as well.

Photo from outside NZ tab today showing TAB takings with introduction of geo blocking

I'm going for one from my black book. Needs a couple more scratchings to get a start: Sunshine Coast, R1, North Of Eli

Horse running racing rails are essential components of racetracks, providing safety and guidance for both horses and riders. Constructed from durable materials, these rails help prevent horses from veering off course during races, ensuring a controlled environment. They are designed to withstand the intense pressure of racing, featuring a smooth surface to minimize the risk of injury. Available in various heights and styles, racing rails can be customized to meet specific track requirements. Their visibility enhances safety for both competitors and spectators. Overall, horse running racing rails play a vital role in maintaining the integrity and excitement of horse racing events. I've been mulling this over quite a bit Michael and now I'm convinced not only should you appeal the DQ and loss of winnings, earnings etc, but also: All travel costs incurred by associated owners, trainers etc to attend the meeting, including float fees Training costs incurred in the lead up preparation for the race Furthermore, a complaint should be lodged with Workplace Health & Safety for failing to provide a safe and secure environment, with the unreplaced rail presenting a risk of injury to jockeys and horses.

Micheal , congratulations , whether you are right or wrong and other people , us , think you were wrong or wronged , you have done something that very few people do , in life , or in racing when we see so many things go wrong and never see any accountability , you have put your hand up and copped it on the chin . There are many in our industry that don't have that character . Well done and good luck going forward .