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Ive always thought Mark Jones was someone that was an good example of what could be achieved in racing through hard work,being very talented and having the right connections. He appears to have set himself up very well with a top training establishment and apparently is very well thought of by those that work for him and those he trains for, One of the reasons the media go to him for comments is because he is willing to express an opinion, sometimes one that may annoy some, but he always appears to act with the best interests of the industry at heart, I'm not sure why some on here feel he deserves some personal criticism, still I think another thing that helps in this industry is having a thick skin,i m guessing he probably has that by now.

While I am also proud of how Ellerslie have accumulated their pile of cash. I'd like to see them spend it on enhancing nz racing. I imagine they intend to at some stage The team in charge at ARC and the teams prior to them obviously inherited prime real estate to work with in the biggest city that is bursting at the seams. Imagine if they couldn't make money! In my opinion NZRB and NZTR rightfully hand Ellerslie the best race dates, with the best stakes to attract the best horses. The lump sums to promote their carnivals is a bit much though. The crowds that are attracted on-course predominantly spend their money on catering rather than punting so that money goes into ARC's pocket rather than the industry's. Imagine if they couldn't make money! While some on this site like to rubbish the smaller clubs and race courses, they still manage to scrape by, despite doubling as training facility's, and getting allocated worse dates, and poorer stakes, and are generally run on modest budgets by volunteers. In summary I'm glad Ellerslie are sitting pretty, hopefully they have something good planned for racing in the near future. I'm also proud of the smaller clubs that are contributing positively to the industry. It be interesting to see a report on which clubs financially drain the industry, probably too hard too measure? Cheers

Couldn't agree more. There are ample opportunities for young folk to get involved in the sport , be it at club level etc. The fact is they just don't want to be involved , but they do want to whinge. Many racing clubs don't deserve the derision and criticism they get on here , as they have been kept going by a thread over the years by enthusiastic committee men and women and club stalwarts, some of the real heroes in the game, the ones that put on the show and get no thanks not even a nod but do it year after year for the benefit of the industry. Some who have inherited unfix-able messes of neglect with little or no resources to do a thing about them but are judged and critiqued against racing clubs with full time staff, the best race dates, promotions and events teams etc etc etc.

If a piece of roofing dislodged and killed or maimed a member of the public there would be serious repercussions - legally and financial. No option but to postpone until roof is secure. Had the same situation at a Golf Course in Melb last year. Strong winds peeled back roofing, so the course was closed.

Why do so many people not "get it" when it is so clear and simple? The ban was instigated against countries that won't/can't supply background on applicants wanting to enter the USA. It is not a ban against countries they just don't take a fancy to. Not only are the left expert hypocrites, they are not bad at parsing any words used to suit their own narrative. What responsibility should the US press have to not make their country look ridiculous by continually attacking the administration because they have a different opinion, rather than simply reporting on them. We are starting to get that from our press as the sports interviewer habit of stating ones own opinion and asking the interviewee if they agree encroaches into the political reporters. Once the press wake up and smell the coffee that reporters are not the celebrities, we should all be better off. The most amazing thing is how bizarre and nasty these PC liberal types actually behave if they don't get their own way. Wow!

Whoop de do! What about having a healthy BMI(Body Mass Index) day. All visitors that go through the turnstiles, any with a BMI of 30+ are herded into a marquis. They are all given a healthy food guide, instruction on purposeful exercise regime and a "Now" photograph of themselves. This picture should focus on the " double chin" and "lard-arse" area. The next visit to the races rewards the "lardos" with a $100 betting voucher if the said BMI has dropped below 30. This prerequisite would championed by the committee and adhered by all. Now that would certainly make headlines!

Bets for today please Jason Rotorua Race 6 $110% Quaddie 2,3,4,5,6,8,10,11/1,2,4/2,4,5,8,9,10/4,6,10,11 $10 Multi 1206 - 11 Youwantmore 1207 - 4 Perry Mason 1209 - 11 Fierte Also A bet for Monday if that is okay? Awapuni (Otaki) Race 5 - $30Win/$40Place - 11 Yamato Nadeshiko Good Luck Sir G - counting on you to make up for my failings!

It's all relative. Some are more fit at 80 than others are at 70 or even 60. If they get a medical certificate which I believe are very thorough, to say they are fit to participate, then who are we to say they can't.

or lets make an example of those that have limited intelligence and resort to violence.

The reason these stalwarts are still there is because none of the younger generation are interested, without them, there wouldn't be a racing club.

Back after an enforced lay off (stroke). Hoping to stay strong and healthy this time. Good luck all. Thanks TC. Race 1 - New Plymouth Race 3 - 1.25pm – 3,10 Race 2 - Ruakaka Race 3 - 1.46pm – 7,9 Race 3 - New Plymouth Race 5 - 2.36pm – 5,9 Race 4 - Ruakaka Race 5 - 2.54pm 7,8 BB Race 5 - New Plymouth Race 6 - 3.11pm – 5,11 Race 6 - Flemington Race 5 - 4.15pm – 3,10 Race 7 - Flemington Race 7 - 5.35pm – 6,10 Race 8 - Flemington Race 8 - 6.15pm – 5,11 Race 9 - Randwick Race 9 - 6.35pm – 4,9 Race 10 - Flemington Race 9 - 6.50pm – 5,7 BB

I do find it a bit sad when people with a genuine interest in the wellbeing of the industry come on here to contribute and things often degenerate into personal abuse. I have been involved in racing for many years in many capacities and the thing that does become apparent is that Racing attracts people from all walks of life. In the "old" days the street sweeper and the business CEO would stand side by side in TAB's and discuss the relative merits of certain horses without any animosity at all. With the rise of social media there are people who would previously have had no platform at all who can suddenly comment on the same level as people who have much more knowledge than them. I think we need to be a bit tolerant if people make comments that we may not agree with. It is a complex industry and we can't expect everyone to have the same depth of knowledge. I think there are people on here with more knowledge than most of the people getting paid big money to run Racing. So lets try to be a bit more tolerant and let people have their say, even if we may not agree with them.

Emma and corey were taking my pups to trials today...a lady shambi pup destroyd the inner and outer door off the trailer and jumped out at 90k an hour...a member off the public saw it and just missed hitting the dog......emma carried on with no knowlege the dog had jumped out...they were not notifyed until on the motorway and had no idea were the dog has fallen out.......to this member off the public he stayed with the dog put it in a back section off a house and then chased emma to tell her were the dog was and then when i arrived he was using his first aid kit out off his car to wrap the dogs injuries.......unreal....what a special human...all i know his name was ivan....

I have been surprised at the lack of political discussion on here with the election just over a month away. What are Race Cafers thoughts were on the NZ First racing policies? If they hold the balance of power following the election it could be an interesting time. I couldn't find the other parties policies on racing, NZF featured racing on their menu alongside the other big ticket topics. Their ten point plan: Return a greater proportion of industry taxation to the racing codes. Introduce a new (below Premier Meeting) category of meeting where every race will be for $15,000 minimum, with relativity across the codes. Enhance employment and export opportunities by working with the industry to improve the international status of New Zealand Group 1 races to attract greater international interest. Restore marque racing plans and prize money initiatives in line with New Zealand First policy implementation 2005 –2008 Return New Zealand racing to what it was good at. Racing needs breeding programmes to re-establish New Zealand as a first tier country in racing. That means policies assisting importation of quality mares, and properly using the sire cost write down. Urgently review the operations and costs of the New Zealand Racing Board Continue to support projects and initiatives, e.g. the Racing Safety Development Fund (a contestable fund of $1.5 million per annum, matching dollar for dollar contributions from racing clubs) that enhances safety and improves the quality of facilities in the racing industry, including the safety of riders, handlers, spectators, officials and others involved in racing codes, as well as the health and safety of animals. Direct IRD and Treasury to respect the spirit of the laws passed to assist racing so we do not have specious departmental interpretations of laws that are clear to the industry. Further improve the appeal of the racing industry to a wider audience by encouraging the promotion of “family-friendly” activities in conjunction with race meetings in all codes. Defend the historic, modest share of the racing industry, to lawful gambling proceeds, against unreasonable attacks. Thoughts?

I can't stand smoking! But I have to say I haven't experienced a problem with smokers on a race course or a pub for that matter for years. I can understand the alignment with the cancer foundation etc, but I simply do not have a problem with respectful smokers having their cigarette in a designated area it seems to have worked well for years. This appears to be a real beat up and is the beginning of pandering to social groups that will never stop and racing may pay a very dear price for it in the long run.

As smoking isn't Illegal are they able to enforce this. The world has gone fucking mad now racing has as well.

He clearly wasn't an average horse. I know I've owned lots of average horses. I'm picking you didnt like the hype - fair enough. But seems a bit churlish to launch into the horse at this stage eh ?

Let's hope that Dark Princess is the one. I know of the owner and he's a very rare breed these days in that he purchased and paid for the horse by himself and is racing it by himself. It take balls I say to do that in this day and age (unless you are a millionaire) so well done to the man.

Yet another crazy decision , what needs to happen is the entire Saturday morning slot needs to be devoted to the weekends racing from 8am onwards. The rugby or sports show on trackside radio (that takes up an hour slot, about 20 mins a week of that is on Stafs taste of music) has a prime time slot for what reason I have no idea. You have punters in and out of TABs across the country at this time having to listen to a panel talk about the rugby or netball or warriors when they should be discussing the NZ racing content. It would surely help!

Couple of mins ago surely they are not running at 11am on Fridays ! How is that relevant to the weekends racing, Track conditions , scratchings and all information on the day will be missing plus whatever dwindling audience they have. Bloody stupid pathetic programming in my opinion.

cool just thought I would post the FB pic so people can see how bad it was.

This video is worth a watch. Very passionate and well presented speech on racing from an MP, thank you. https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=196742 PS, not many in parliament showing up for work :-)

Geez your an arsehole, Shane mc didn't attack or say anything offensive to you.......you have a serious anger problem, your one of those " the world owes you" types and those that don't agree with are all wrong.....

The rating system is a shambles. Judging the end of season rating system, there seems to be many indescrepencies, especially the open class and age goup catagories. The review of nearly 4800 horses performances rated over 46, indicate a worrying sign of inconsistencies by the NZTR handicappers. Firstly, the open class (100+) has only 16 horses in the classification. Very worrying. The NZTR handicappers seem to drop points too quickly. Especially from horses that run un-suitable distances, shows that they dont take this into consideration. eg. Miss Three Stars lost 2 points running midfield in the NZ Cup (3200m) when second topweight. Another annoyance is the handicappers not re-rating horses straight after races, especially Group races. Three-year-old's Gingernuts and Jon Snow seem far too highly rated at 105 and 104 and NZ and ATC Oaks winner Bonneval is the next three year old at 100. These three were rated after returning from Australia, so we dont know how the NZTR handicappers rated their domestic Group wins individually. Saracino is another example of this. In his last start in NZ, Saracino won the Group Two Wellington Guineas back in March, but the NZTR handicappers haven't rated his Guineas win; and remains on 92. He raced once in Randwick after his Trentham win. While there is no disagreement that Bonneval was last season's top three-year-old filly, being rated 100 does seem abit high in comparison to other fillies of her year. Her stablemate Nicolleta, rated as low as 73 - 13.5kgs inferior. Nicolleta beat Bonneval (3rd) in a Group 3 at Hastings, then Bonneval got the better at their next start by a head. Bonneval then beat Nicolleta by 2.5 lengths in the NZ Oaks (then won the ATC Oaks), but does this equate to a 13.5kg? Again, we dont know how many points Bonneval got from winning the NZ Oaks, she was re-rated after she returned from Australia. 2000 Guineas winner Ugo Foscolo is another that wasn't re-rated after his feature win at Riccarton. There are far too many other indescrepencies to mention.

Well done Chris !!

Although the following may be contentious, it needs to be discussed... All weather track racing is very boring as the way the surface acts dictates the pattern of racing. Many grass track horses don't perform on all weather tracks. What actual artificial surface will be used because although the surfaces are adequate under specific conditions, New Zealand tends to have a completely different climate attitude so the success or not of the surface will be dependant on the right interpretation of the climate in that area It is the impression that the all weather tracks will be utilised during the winter season because it is the perception that because of the poor winter weather and tracks, the all weather will replace this issue. The winter could be perceived to be from May to August..What is apparent though is that there are as many race meeting called off outside of this time period, so the issue really is IF we invested the same funds on logical restoration and management of the current race tracks, would that eliminate many of the cancellations. It would seem that in the UK, France or Australia to name three, that they proportionately have less cancellations than we do. The question of the requirements for the tri-code to agree is interesting. It would seem that the disaffected party is galloping as both dogs and trots generally speaking run on all weather tracks anyway. The notion that all weather tracks are of benefit is to say that all weather racing (post better management of the current race tracks) creates a market niche for NZ racing that would improve the current betting revenue commensurate to the cost (IRR and that relevant barometer). I have yet to have been presented with any evidence to suggest this is investible. I may be boring to the extent that I repeat myself in respect of replacing the winter flat galloping with a proper jumping program and facilities. I repeat myself because I have seen the spectacle and participation/ betting figures in NZ. I believe that it will also enhance the longevity and value to the thoroughbred industry (both horse stock and human participant). I don't believe that the current tinkering with a flawed jumps program is a true reflection of the potential because no-one that I have met in this country understands the way you can structure the program (starting with a bumper program for three year olds all the way through to the championships). If we are going to do this, lets make it properly for the future. 4 super venues should be created. Each should have at 3000 acres at their disposal. Each should have two race tracks with multiple training tracks. Each of the racing tracks should be able to cater for at least 30 runners. One of the two tracks should be a championship track. At least one of them should have a home straight should be at least 1600m in length. Each venue should be built next to a small town so as to obtain resource consent for at least 1000 dwellings in order to create a real estate play to cover the cost of the entire project, and to provide accommodation for the industry participants (horses too) and support service providers. Part of this should be a retail development. The real estate play can be part sale/ purchase and part long term lease in order to provide affordable housing. Each venue should also accommodate facilities for alternative equestrian sports. If you want all weather tracks, this could be part of the centralised play. Just go to the UK and to China to see what the blue print looks like. Anyone that has been to Newmarket will understand what I am saying. We need to look 40 years ahead to get this right. It is not only all weather that will make NZ racing a viable proposition. Rationalise the current structure to accommodate the seed capital to execute the model.

I think this is a great idea, but why stop at telling punters they can't go outside and have a smoke at the races? I think racing clubs should start limiting punters to a maximum bet of $5 or so to show they also support gambling responsibly and within limits.

See other thread for details. Regulars in Peter's comps will know the drill. Pretty simple - pick two runners in each of the 10 races below. Nominate one NZ race (1-5) and one Oz race (6-10) as your Best Bet races. Don't post subs but feel free to replace scratchings up to the scheduled start time of Race 1. Entries close at that time - 1.25pm on Saturday. Race 1 - New Plymouth Race 3 - 1.25pm Race 2 - Ruakaka Race 3 - 1.46pm Race 3 - New Plymouth Race 5 - 2.36pm Race 4 - Ruakaka Race 5 - 2.54pm Race 5 - New Plymouth Race 6 - 3.11pm Race 6 - Flemington Race 5 - 4.15pm Race 7 - Flemington Race 7 - 5.35pm Race 8 - Flemington Race 8 - 6.15pm Race 9 - Randwick Race 9 - 6.35pm Race 10 - Flemington Race 9 - 6.50pm

Fantastic to see Christchurch Greyhounds racing during the latest rain storms that have lashed most of the country. Your track curator is worth his weight in gold to have it running so good in those conditions

Not owning the bat and ball as a kid made me a better bowler.

the Parliamentary Hcp used to be the Wellington Cup of winter and the Whyte the George Adams of winter.

I'll put in a plug for the Canterbury Jockey Club then. Membership gives 3 members badges for all days and free admission. The value of that across Cup Week and GN Week puts me well ahead on the subscription. Plus few bars and rooms which are Members only including some really good ones. Plus members comps and discounts etc. I think they do a good job

I've now had the opportunity to really digest this proposed Act. I'm as incensed as I was before when trying to start a new thread on this matter because this is once again a water shed proposal for racing. When the previous Bill was executed, we objected to four main points. these were: 1. That the clubs lost their rights to operate their own tote; 2. That this Minister signed off the accounts, effectively handing fiscal control to the Ministry; 3. That the Bill repealed all other Acts or actions in respect of any issue of ownership of the tote, placing it squarely in the hands of government; and 4. That the Minister approved the Board members without any recourse by the racing industry. Yes, the Bill also disproportionately allocated funds to the respective codes, but the wording was such that this could effectively be changed by the Board if it so wished to do so. We know of course that they stuffed it up. So now we have this one, which has passed its first reading. Whether you like it or not, and there has not been one squeak out of ANY of our industry representatives (Trainers Association, Breeders Association, NZTR, Owners Association or any of the other code's representatives - because they are all affected the same way- in respect of the proposed transition to empower the board to manage and handle the sports betting portfolio. Just remember the Act was introduced for the financial welfare of the people involved in racing. Without a squeak, no serious public lobbying, no club lobbying, No owners lobbying....or the breeders....this Bill destroys the competitiveness of racing by placing its ENTIRE destiny in the hands of any government who HAVE to promote sports for the good of its people. Ensuring that the Minister appoints the ENTIRE BOARD, that the Department (I only read this as being the Internal Affairs) has complete sign off on the distributions and takeout rates, that the Department approves the new bet types and the rules surrounding those completely sets racing up for a fall. There is no interpretation that allows racing to force anything to happen. Sports is important for the fabric of New Zealanders. I have no arguments there. We need to promote grass roots sports, so we need to be able to fund them. This was done through lottery distributions but it is obvious that there is not enough to go around anymore so it must come from somewhere. This socialist approach sees the avenue being funds obtained from sports betting. It's obvious. But here is my beef. The Act was set up to look after the financial and social welfare of racing, not sports. In Australia, when the TAB's were privatised, and the pokie machines were introduced, racing negotiated with government to clearly ensure distributions were provided to racing...guaranteed!!! These distributions were defined and cast in stone and that is why they are prospering. What happens in NZ?....some wish washy language that guarantees absolutely butt nothing. We should lock down sports betting returns for the sake of our industry. We need to know we can survive.

There should be a grade for horses who haven't won in the last year. There should also be an R60 grade given that most horses end up in that lower end of the band. Clubs should also have discretion to just program 1200m races, 1600m and 2000m races, and then split the noms into whatever grades they wish to create the most efficient use of the horses available and give the most horses possible an opportunity to compete.

Should be split into multiple grades, NZTR has been told this by far more learned people than me but you can't tell them anything because they're mostly carved out of dead wood, especially the handicappers.

Pitty is an expert in the field and if he ever retires he'd make a great handicapper because he understands how to rate a horse to give its career longevity, especially old geldings. Given that every time a horse runs it earn the industry about $14,000 in revenue it's critical we keep them racing as long as reasonably possible, yet the fxxxing idiots at NZTR have been busy driving aged geldings out of the game for the last six years, and they're costing the industry millions as a result.

Overshot there a bit Hesi but time will tell. I see she has had a re-shuffle and for herself has the "Children (how appropriate), Arts and Culture and Heritage portfolios". Having never had a real job she is going to struggle dealing with anything involving intellectual rigour, and will not get by on this touchy-feely shit. Of course the sycophantic, liberal press will cut her some slack

Thank you for your comments. I/We have "enjoyed the ride" but the time had come as Alyson, kennels official, and I have been heading to Addington now for over 130 meetings a year for quite a few seasons. A total of 25 years between us and it felt just right to bring it to an end while we were still able to enjoy it. That was my same philosophy when I retired from teaching. We had paid our dues, as the saying goes. Today was strange as we watched and listened. It was pleasing to see the greyhounds loving their work* for their owners, trainers and handlers. For the first time in a very long time I could not say that I had been to the races at Addington and made money. *Bad luck Danziger. Next time!

Like repeating over and over and over every time there is any sort of hiccup on a track that it should be shut down you mean?

What do you think will be the captive audience at 11am Friday morning ? Bit like the first season of Weigh In which was great played Sunday Evening all relevant then the following year in their wisdom changed to Monday evening and became old news . First call on Fridays is the same scenario but in reverse . Fools I say.

It's been canvassed here before ... beware predicating anything on sales ring prices - especially with relatively new sires who the studs are trying hard to hype up. You may not realise the same returns for the progeny of that sire that the big studs appear to "achieve" in teh sales ring. There is more smoke and mirrors and skulduggery at the yearling sales than in Todd Barclay's Clutha-Southland electorate. Results on the track will tell the story for the established sires (but be careful how these stat.s are expressed by parties with vested interests ....make sure you compare like with like). And for the new sires - it's always gonna be a punt I believe - I've got some very right in the past and some others proved to be rather average. J.

Dunno! Never made a withdrawal

Can you bribe a few more of your mob to drop out, so Cam and I can get a shot

here you go jape no fines here perhaps the jca should take note STEWARDS WRAP: KNACKERY MEAT LEADS TO MORE POSITIVE SWABS Monday 6th June 2016 1:49 pm.Katherine Ernst TWO Victorian trainers recently faced the Racing Appeals and Disciplinary Board (RADB) after being charged with breaches of the prohibited substance rule GAR 83 (2)(3). Both trainers had greyhounds which returned positive urine samples to the drug Dehydronorketamine, a pain relief drug which is a metabolite of Ketamine. The first trainer to face the board was Chris Darmanin, whose greyhound Aeroplane Tommy had shown the presence of the substance when competing at Ballarat on December 7, 2015. Darmanin pleaded guilty to the charge and gave evidence that the source of the substance was most likely from the meat fed to the greyhound, which had been obtained from a pet food supplier. Darmanin said he would be feeding his greyhounds human grade meat from now on. Upon considering a penalty, the board was mindful of the evidence tendered at the hearing and that Darmanin had two prior positive swabs to the substance Procaine in 2009 and 2014 respectively. The RADB subsequently handed down a six month disqualification, to commence on June 7, 2016. The second trainer was Andrea Chapple, whose greyhound, Zoltina’s Legacy, returned a urine sample which showed the presence of Dehydronorketamine when competing at Ballarat on December 4, 2015. Chapple also pleaded guilty and gave evidence that the substance was likely the result of being fed knackery meat from a pet food supplier. Stewards considered Chapple’s guilty plea, her co-operation with the stewards and her lack of prior transgressions under the GAR and good character. She was subsequently disqualified for three months, two months of which was suspended for 12 months, provided there are no further breaches of the rules in that period, with the disqualification commencing on June 7, 2016. Aeroplane Tommy and Zoltina’s Legacy were also disqualified from their respective races.

Rees , congratulations on your Harness Tipping Teams idea for PJ's Spring Tipping Competition ! New Horse Racing Stalls are always good to visit . Being a member of the new Harness Magnificent (10) ten. I nominate Double R and Dogzstar1 as our two team Captains this time around. Sorry , globederby 12, champ , you need to concentrate on your tipping skills more . You have been picking plenty of second placings of late. Rees , let's hope your selections in PJ's Spring Tipping Competition are future winners and are not going slower than a nudist through a barbed wire fence . I think the PJ Thoroughbred crowd might be worried about these new Harness Magnificent (10) ten two tipping teams turning up on their Race Tracks looking to win a few match up games or two . I swear the other day at SCG Members Lounge. I heard the lucky Scone Thoroughbred Owner's Lord and Lady Jenkin's asking their endearing Vet Princess Wendy ; " Do you think our injured Filly Lady Chestnut will be able to race again ". In a normal and true salubrious veterinarian response, Princess Wendy replied " yep, of course ! And you'll probably beat her as well " . Catch you all on the Race Track for the first day of Thoroughbred Racing in PJ's Spring Tipping Competition . It's good to be back home in my own bed looking out the window at the beautiful ocean waves . It was hard to sneak a nice glass of Rohrlach Barossa Shiraz in Hospital when the Doctor's , Grand Children and Nurse's are filling their glasses first . Sir Castleton , good luck with your recovery champ . God Bless you all.

I doubt if CT has a nasty bone in his body. He is built like a racing greyhound , runs a bit too to keep fit and has a bit of adventureous spirit about him. Being a bit younger ,he will wind up any detractors on here ! Don't forget he generously sponsored a popular Melbourne Cup comp ,more than once from memory ,and gave a decent Cash prize. Yeah ,I met him ...on the tram and we went to Moonee Valley races to watch Black Caviar. Yes he had a decent bet on BC , knowing he would win enough for a taxi home and a couple of takeaway meals. All good !!

https://www.grnz.co.nz/News.aspx?NewsID=2400 Good an external review was done and though they could not find any problems they have suggested a programme change to make a better perspective to participants. that has to be positive

It's a ballroom....John is living in the past..something that happens to older people who need a pat on the back....his last trip to auckland we didn't even have a motorway...he has bred sprinters trying to breed stayers and is now angry at everyone......he even has trouble peeing..lol

What happened to your forum doctrine of eschewing personal attacks?