Nerula

Cannabis testing

33 posts in this topic

This disaster of a Government is hell bent on saddling us to a "stoner society" with the legalisation of enough weed to make 40 joints per person for personal use.

Where does that place say trainers held personally responsible for the safety of staff. I would think daily testing at the stable door and sending away all those that test positive.

Ive seen the effect of drugs in the construction industry. The dopers are not aware and not safe. and the P takers are irrational.

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37 minutes ago, Nerula said:

This disaster of a Government is hell bent on saddling us to a "stoner society" with the legalisation of enough weed to make 40 joints per person for personal use.

Where does that place say trainers held personally responsible for the safety of staff. I would think daily testing at the stable door and sending away all those that test positive.

Ive seen the effect of drugs in the construction industry. The dopers are not aware and not safe. and the P takers are irrational.

What exactly are you talking about? P or cannabis. I work in construction and what I see is workers losing their jobs by bullying employers on anti drug crusades WITHOUT any evidence that ANY accidents are in fact caused by drugs.Workers lose their jobs just for refusing to submit to what is an illegal test anyway , not even the police have the power to go on random fishing expeditions at workplaces.Why is drug testing of workers not done legally along the same guidelines that exist with drink drive laws.Laws  that have been tested in court ,are 'fair', you get your day in court and have a range of penalties, none of which specifically make you unemployed or unemployable which is the FIRST option for employers with drug testing.Will any worker ever get their day in court? Will any employer ever show any evidence of drugs actually being the cause of workplace accidents?( more likely the cause of absenteeism)I do not use drugs currently but weed and P are pretty mild in their effects compared to some drugs I have used in my younger days and also I work with some weekend stoners who are some of the most capable dependable SAFE workers I have had the absolute pleasure of working with.

.

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Just to add to my earlier comments the deaths that have arisen from synthetic drug abuse are at least in part as a result of workplace testing  because they can get high and still pass any test with flying colours.The war on drugs is not working and driving our youth towards synthetics means that a lot of people fighting that war  have more blood on their hands than any dealer ,cannabis is not toxic , will not kill anyone , our youth might be a bit irrational but is that any reason for us to carry on in this manner and let them die!

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Has cannabis use been proved to be a factor in some serious work injuries or death ? Yes .it has

Has P been proved to be a factor in serious work accidents and death/ Yes it has.

I also worked in construction  working on preventing injury. My experience of that time was that drug use was common and dangerous.

Nerula's comment to open, was correct, it will be the employer's responsibility to ensure the employee's safety (as well as the employee)

When people vote on the issue of legality at the election they should ask themselves one simple question? Will legalising cannabis possibly cause harm? Yes it will

We keep on moaning about the unbelievable behavior of some of our young people and yet continue to put more risks in front of them.

We keep scratching our head about how to prevent youth suicide yet legalising cannabis is certain to make the problem worse.

So weed and P are chicken feed compared to what you have assaulted your brain with. That becomes apparent on reading your comments above.

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2 hours ago, Nukkledragga said:

Just to add to my earlier comments the deaths that have arisen from synthetic drug abuse are at least in part as a result of workplace testing  because they can get high and still pass any test with flying colours.The war on drugs is not working and driving our youth towards synthetics means that a lot of people fighting that war  have more blood on their hands than any dealer ,cannabis is not toxic , will not kill anyone , our youth might be a bit irrational but is that any reason for us to carry on in this manner and let them die!

Who of those fighting the " war on drugs"  have blood on their hands " .Drug dealers are scum who use vulnerable people to do their dirty work , that's my experience anyway .

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2 hours ago, Red Rum said:

Who of those fighting the " war on drugs"  have blood on their hands?

Nukkledragga is implying anyone who supports policies that force people who would like to responsibly use safer-than-alcohol marijuana to instead use deadly synthetics.

Also, anyone who supports gangs having a monopoly on the supply of marijuana. Legalising cannabis takes away funding from gangs and takes away customers they can push towards harder stuff like P.

2 hours ago, GOM said:

Will legalising cannabis possibly cause harm? Yes it will

Everything can possibly cause harm. Your one question is a bit simplistic; there are two questions I think you need to ask before voting.

1.) Will legalising cannabis increase or reduce the harm being done to society (funding gangs, not being able to educate people on safe use, not being able to use cbd-based medicines to tackle anxiety/depression/nausea/pain, not having the government be able to tax the * out of it so they can reduce income tax in return) under the current laws?

2.) Do I want a government that treats me like an adult and lets me race dogs/smoke weed/bet on sport/marry a dude/drink a beer if that's what I want to do, or a government that bans things it doesn't like and will merrily stomp on my freedoms if it/a big enough mob decides the things I want to do are "bad" things?

As racing participants, we have a passion for an activity which is slowly losing its social acceptability. Out of everyone in the country, we should be the most ardent "live and let live" group there is.

7 hours ago, Nerula said:

Where does that place say trainers held personally responsible for the safety of staff. I would think daily testing at the stable door and sending away all those that test positive.

Yes, probably. Trainers will have to decide if they want to ban all of their staff from consuming cannabis at all, or if they're willing to make judgment calls and roll the dice. It'll mean that if you want to work in the industry you'll probably have to not partake. But at least everyone will have the choice of how they want to live their life.

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3 hours ago, GOM said:

Has cannabis use been proved to be a factor in some serious work injuries or death ? Yes .it has

Has P been proved to be a factor in serious work accidents and death/ Yes it has.

I also worked in construction  working on preventing injury. My experience of that time was that drug use was common and dangerous.

Nerula's comment to open, was correct, it will be the employer's responsibility to ensure the employee's safety (as well as the employee)

When people vote on the issue of legality at the election they should ask themselves one simple question? Will legalising cannabis possibly cause harm? Yes it will

We keep on moaning about the unbelievable behavior of some of our young people and yet continue to put more risks in front of them.

We keep scratching our head about how to prevent youth suicide yet legalising cannabis is certain to make the problem worse.

So weed and P are chicken feed compared to what you have assaulted your brain with. That becomes apparent on reading your comments above.

I have repeatedly asked for proof of accidents CAUSED by drugs when attending sitesafe courses when attending large scale fletcher construction inductions in chch during the rebuild ,I am still waiting....If you witnessed "common and dangerous" behaviour what did you do about it? Did you ring the cops ,did you  talk to the workers ,did you talk to the management or did you talk out of your backside like you are now! If there is a proven link it would have been thrown back at me a hundred times and I would have been put in my place a hundred times .Construction work is dangerous even without any added risk from drink or  drugs and the numbers of accidents will not drop by increased random illegal testing.The last half of your argument makes you sound like a scared virgin , no life experience but offering an" expert " opinion on drugs you know nothing about .

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Nukkledragga if you are that confident that drugs are not a problem then come ride one of my horses (they are all quite) when you have been under the influence of some of your gear  (but before you get on sign off that you're all good to go) so when one of them burries you in the dirty or your fall off on your own accord then you don't come back and blame me for the consequences of your own poor decision making.

The issue here is freedom of choice; Good luck to you if you want to partake in mind altering substances again that's your choice  BUT DO NOT come crying when you get hurt at work  and (in Racing terms) then blame the trainer and seek compensation BECAUSE YOU, YOURSELF made a back decision in your own time. If you hadn't figured it out horses can be unpredictable animals and the consequences of someone  making a poor personal should not reflected on anyone but those that actually caused the  problem, ooooeee that would be the person fried. 

So for you  NUKKLEDRAGGA (assuming you can't ride): how would you feel driving in a race when everone else is pissed to bits expect you of course when they are driving cars and oh you by chance are on  a pushbike HOW BRAVE ARE YOU. Having lost a horse when a rider was under the influence of cannabis I can tell you for free its not that easy driving home with an empty float.

 

Let me know your perferrence if you are game I can organize both horse or vehicle race - YOUR CHOICE 

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3 hours ago, Nukkledragga said:

I have repeatedly asked for proof of accidents CAUSED by drugs when attending sitesafe courses when attending large scale fletcher construction inductions in chch during the rebuild ,I am still waiting....If you witnessed "common and dangerous" behaviour what did you do about it? Did you ring the cops ,did you  talk to the workers ,did you talk to the management or did you talk out of your backside like you are now! If there is a proven link it would have been thrown back at me a hundred times and I would have been put in my place a hundred times .Construction work is dangerous even without any added risk from drink or  drugs and the numbers of accidents will not drop by increased random illegal testing.The last half of your argument makes you sound like a scared virgin , no life experience but offering an" expert " opinion on drugs you know nothing about .

Plenty of experience in dealing with the results dragga, Now take the forestry industry. Many years ago when the serious accidents on the skids in particular were reaching a crescendo a large Foresty corp undertook a series of workshops with the workers , in a  no blame environment I think the percentage of them that admitted using cannabis whilst working was above 80%. The company started an education program and compulsory drug testing and the accident rate plummeted.

    How could you possibly know how much I 'know" about drugs. I think you probably mean that I have not fried my brain as you obviously have, and you cannot know that either

Dragga I think to give some credibility here you should say if you are still using

I was going to suggest you buy and read the book The great Brain robbery but realise it has probably already gone

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5 hours ago, chiknsmack said:

Nukkledragga is implying anyone who supports policies that force people who would like to responsibly use safer-than-alcohol marijuana to instead use deadly synthetics.

Also, anyone who supports gangs having a monopoly on the supply of marijuana. Legalising cannabis takes away funding from gangs and takes away customers they can push towards harder stuff like P.

Everything can possibly cause harm. Your one question is a bit simplistic; there are two questions I think you need to ask before voting.

1.) Will legalising cannabis increase or reduce the harm being done to society (funding gangs, not being able to educate people on safe use, not being able to use cbd-based medicines to tackle anxiety/depression/nausea/pain, not having the government be able to tax the * out of it so they can reduce income tax in return) under the current laws?

2.) Do I want a government that treats me like an adult and lets me race dogs/smoke weed/bet on sport/marry a dude/drink a beer if that's what I want to do, or a government that bans things it doesn't like and will merrily stomp on my freedoms if it/a big enough mob decides the things I want to do are "bad" things?

As racing participants, we have a passion for an activity which is slowly losing its social acceptability. Out of everyone in the country, we should be the most ardent "live and let live" group there is.

Yes, probably. Trainers will have to decide if they want to ban all of their staff from consuming cannabis at all, or if they're willing to make judgment calls and roll the dice. It'll mean that if you want to work in the industry you'll probably have to not partake. But at least everyone will have the choice of how they want to live their life.

Chickensm, Using your logic you could expand that list to include , shooting up with heroin, snorting coke and puffing P if that is what you want without society trying to stamp on you.

in answer to (1) it will without doubt increase harm. Evidence from area's that have already made it legal show the black market remains, the link with youth suicide and cannabis is fact, expose more youth to cannabis and you increase the amount of schizophrenia in young males, schools will be in even more trouble than they are now as kids short term memories are corrupted, accident rates from all categories will increase etc etc

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10 hours ago, GOM said:

Plenty of experience in dealing with the results dragga, Now take the forestry industry. Many years ago when the serious accidents on the skids in particular were reaching a crescendo a large Foresty corp undertook a series of workshops with the workers , in a  no blame environment I think the percentage of them that admitted using cannabis whilst working was above 80%. The company started an education program and compulsory drug testing and the accident rate plummeted.

    How could you possibly know how much I 'know" about drugs. I think you probably mean that I have not fried my brain as you obviously have, and you cannot know that either

Dragga I think to give some credibility here you should say if you are still using

I was going to suggest you buy and read the book The great Brain robbery but realise it has probably already gone

You say that the forestry corp as you describe it introduced EDUCATION and drug testing , which is most beneficial for the workers in terms of accident prevention, 100% blame 100%illegal testing or no blame education.If you werent incapable of understanding plain english you would have read and understood that I do not use drugs and very rarely have a pint with friends or family.Now the 80% number of users you claim raises a few questions , what is that number in relation to historical accidents compared to now , or compared to other industries with or without safety related education ,  those are the type of questions I have asked repeatedly and never had answered and your anecdote while true does not constitute proof.The forestry industry may not be the best example to quote because it has THE MOST TESTED workforce and is STILL THE MOST DEADLY  and as I stated in an earlier post some jobs are dangerous without drugs or alcohol and all that testing does is create unemployment

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What a crap topic , we all know cannabis affects peoples ability to react so clearly it's going to cause/fail to prevent accidents , for that reason alone keep it under control .

The psychosis that comes with it after prolonged use will ruin lives and strain the mental health budget , we all know alcohol causes problems but that's not an excuse for make things worse .

Another effect of legalising it will be the undermining parents who are trying to keep their children on the right course .

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Its not a crap topic. The GREENS have pushed for ganga use for years. A certain notable on here put that drug use was the "politics of Ponsonby" a thought promoting proposition. It might be alright for the intelligentia to use for their recreational use but for people that actually work in industry its a dumb idea.

I started the thread to look at the effect on horse trainers. Knowing there will be costs and increased risk and WorkSafe waiting to smash an unfortunate employer.

I fully beiieve in your right to fry your brains but not at anothers cost.

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12 hours ago, GOM said:

in answer to (1) it will without doubt increase harm. Evidence from area's that have already made it legal show the black market remains, the link with youth suicide and cannabis is fact, expose more youth to cannabis and you increase the amount of schizophrenia in young males, schools will be in even more trouble than they are now as kids short term memories are corrupted, accident rates from all categories will increase etc etc

I disagree that it will increase harm, on a net basis. Even if the black market remains, it will shrink when it has competition (who would buy product of questionable quality from scummy gang members when you can by high-quality stuff from a specialist retailer?).

Smoking cannabis daily in your teens leads to an increased risk of suicide. That's why no-one in their right mind is pushing for kids to be allowed access to cannabis. Teens currently have widespread access via the black market, so if we shrink the black market by adding a white market which provides most/all of the supply for legal adults, we reduce teenage access to cannabis. Plus having it legalised means we can have straightforward conversations with the youth and educate them on the risks involved when combining it with an undeveloped brain.

Also, there's a proven link between cbd and reductions in anxiety and depression (and therefore suicide). Seem like a big reduction in harm is available there.

Accident rates will probably increase (assuming people don't stop drinking and replace their drinking with cannabis, in which case accident rates would stay around the same or maybe even reduce, as being high on cannabis makes you less likely to go out and get up to shenanigans compared to being drunk). In that respect, you're probably right. But this will be far outweighed by all of the benefits I mentioned in my first post (medical use, tax revenue).

13 hours ago, GOM said:

Using your logic you could expand that list to include , shooting up with heroin, snorting coke and puffing P if that is what you want without society trying to stamp on you. 

This is why just asking yourself just one question doesn't work. If I based my opinion purely on freedom and liberty, I'd say we should legalise Heroin/Cocaine/P. I could even point to Portugal as an example where widespread decriminalisation lead to reductions in both the use and the harms caused by these drugs. But that's not my stance.

It's a balancing act. You need to balance personal freedom against the net benefit/harm to society. I believe there needs to be a good reason to take freedoms away from people. In my view, the harms from cannabis legalisation are outweighed by the benefits; it would be better for New Zealand as a whole if cannabis was legal. So even if I wasn't such a hardcore "You live your life, I'll live mine" person, I'd be pro-legalisation. And this is from someone who has never used illegal drugs and never even had more than four standard drinks in a year.

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Chickensm, It is hard to believe that youth would have more trouble accessing it if it were legal compared to the opposite. This vote is to try and NORMALISE cannabis. Your references to CBD are not valid as it is legal now, you can buy it in the supermarket.

My final comment on the subject is that your factual statement that"smoking cannabis regularly in your teens leads to increased risk of suicide" is enough reason on it's own to steer as far clear from cannabis as possible

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2 hours ago, chiknsmack said:

 

Smoking cannabis daily in your teens leads to an increased risk of suicide. 

Really? I think that is typical of the garbage bandied about on these issues and the media are great at it. If you bother to look at the research I think you'll find that daily cannabis use is correlated to higher suicide rates. Nothing I've seen that says it causes them. It could be that the state that leads to one also leads to the other. Think before you believe this stuff.

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I think adults who should know better letting very young children listen to doom merchants saying world ending soon  might not be healthy mentally either . Different subject but why the Fuxx would people take young kids to such things when Iam sure a 10 year old cannot do a lot about it  . What happened to adults with backbone saying ear little lad dont worry mate sleep tight and taking on the stress for them .I can see conversation in future " What did you do as a youngster mum and dad " " your nan and  grandad worried me shitless" .

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3 hours ago, Leggy said:

Really? I think that is typical of the garbage bandied about on these issues and the media are great at it. If you bother to look at the research I think you'll find that daily cannabis use is correlated to higher suicide rates. Nothing I've seen that says it causes them. It could be that the state that leads to one also leads to the other. Think before you believe this stuff.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26210-linking-cannabis-and-suicide-doesnt-prove-causation/

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Within reason you can find scientific papers to support almost any proposition relating to cannabis use 

Most credible papers agree that at an early age cannabis use is detrimental to learning and academic achievement, and it slows responses to critical stimuli.

Being fat soluble it also predisposes to chronic mental changes, and it’s a recognized “gateway” drug with a strong correlation to the use of hard drugs.

I’m thus going to suggest that if you’re happy to be a low academic achiever and find a career that’s more mediocre than meteoric then cannabis is a good choice for you.

Just don’t expect to ever own much in the way of assets, or have any letters after your name, in fact there’s a good chance you’ll struggle to even remember your name, but don’t worry, Social Welfare will remind you every Thursday when you get your benefit, before you spend it on double Corubas & coke, providing the barman isn’t on the weed too, in which case the Coruba you ordered will arrive 27 minutes late, minus the coke

Weed and Young People | WDG Public Health


https://www.wdgpublichealth.ca/weed-and-young-people

 

 

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5 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Within reason you can find scientific papers to support almost any proposition relating to cannabis use 

Most credible papers agree that at an early age cannabis use is detrimental to learning and academic achievement, and it slows responses to critical stimuli.

I didn't say it didn't.

Just that the hype about it causing suicide is not substantiated.

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