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Archer

So Avondale still has its July 18th meeting ?

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43 minutes ago, Houlahan's Dream said:

Actually their chips from the back caravan are ok! Coffee cart too...serviceable. 

 

What gets me is the public stand....like a ghetto scene from the Wire. Cannot be legal to put people in that space..

Great track though. Flat and true. 

 

And the 'All Golds club'  had great chips  n  toasties too🙂

...theres just one prick on the board stopping progress/stand repiars etc..once he has his ass finally kicked out the club can mend and be Aucklands greatest affordable racing club to the attending public....who knows we may even get back night racing...that was spectacular..!!!

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What about the initiative for AJC to alter their calendar and lock down premiere Saturdays (to allow the best horses in NZ to race on a roomy right handed track as final lead up) to coincide with revised ARC group one calendar.

Deemed as assisting the enemy and therefore unpalatable. No governing body dead ends there...no debate...just red mist rejection.

 

 

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1 hour ago, mooseman said:

And the 'All Golds club'  had great chips  n  toasties too🙂

...theres just one prick on the board stopping progress/stand repiars etc..once he has his ass finally kicked out the club can mend and be Aucklands greatest affordable racing club to the attending public....who knows we may even get back night racing...that was spectacular..!!!

That was proactive getting the All Golds on track , utilising a floor of the Stand, are they still in business ??

Who's the one prick ?

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I find it interesting that Cambridge is spending something like $16m on their track, which has never been an actual racecourse, and Winston is now encouraging them to spend more money on a flash entrance and a grandstand so people can attend and watch the races. Basically the entire supporting structure for race-meetings is having to be developed from scratch.

Meanwhile Avondale has a track that everyone seems to acknowledge provides a good racing surface, and their main problem (apart from perhaps a dysfunctional committee) is an old dunger of a public grandstand.

I haven't been to Avondale since the days (nights) of night racing. In those days the members grandstand was reasonably flash. Surely a reasonable solution would be the knock down the public grandstand and replace it with a bit of an embankment or a multi-purpose facility that sports teams and others could use on non race-days (which is most of the time really). It should be an easier stand to bowl over than Riccarton.

All of the debate about Avondale doesn't seem to include anything constructive like tidying the place up dramatically. It all seems to focus around the fact that they have been there for years and despite the fact they are poorly run and the place looks like a tip they should be allowed to continue wasting a valuable resource.

There are a lot of race tracks around the country that are very run down. The industry has hardly spent any money on facilities since the early 90s. The best thing rita could do would be to buy a fleet of bulldozers and send them around the country. Ironically the most recent racecourse developments in the whole country are probably at Waimate.

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16 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

I find it interesting that Cambridge is spending something like $16m on their track, which has never been an actual racecourse, and Winston is now encouraging them to spend more money on a flash entrance and a grandstand so people can attend and watch the races. Basically the entire supporting structure for race-meetings is having to be developed from scratch.

Meanwhile Avondale has a track that everyone seems to acknowledge provides a good racing surface, and their main problem (apart from perhaps a dysfunctional committee) is an old dunger of a public grandstand.

I haven't been to Avondale since the days (nights) of night racing. In those days the members grandstand was reasonably flash. Surely a reasonable solution would be the knock down the public grandstand and replace it with a bit of an embankment or a multi-purpose facility that sports teams and others could use on non race-days (which is most of the time really). It should be an easier stand to bowl over than Riccarton.

All of the debate about Avondale doesn't seem to include anything constructive like tidying the place up dramatically. It all seems to focus around the fact that they have been there for years and despite the fact they are poorly run and the place looks like a tip they should be allowed to continue wasting a valuable resource.

There are a lot of race tracks around the country that are very run down. The industry has hardly spent any money on facilities since the early 90s. The best thing rita could do would be to buy a fleet of bulldozers and send them around the country. Ironically the most recent racecourse developments in the whole country are probably at Waimate.

Good thoughts. 

What can we all agree on?
* Avondale is a great track for racing
* Night racing is a great opportunity and proves popular in Australia
* Avondale facilities are worse than most rugby club rooms, very grim
* New Lynn is booming and West Auckland is improving all the time with new builds, shops and facilities
* Public transport, Trains, Buses are all on route of Avondale
* There really is no excuse for the state that Avondale is in other than management
* Avondale have had their chance and the executioners have arrived 
 

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34 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

I find it interesting that Cambridge is spending something like $16m on their track, which has never been an actual racecourse, and Winston is now encouraging them to spend more money on a flash entrance and a grandstand so people can attend and watch the races. Basically the entire supporting structure for race-meetings is having to be developed from scratch.

Meanwhile Avondale has a track that everyone seems to acknowledge provides a good racing surface, and their main problem (apart from perhaps a dysfunctional committee) is an old dunger of a public grandstand.

I haven't been to Avondale since the days (nights) of night racing. In those days the members grandstand was reasonably flash. Surely a reasonable solution would be the knock down the public grandstand and replace it with a bit of an embankment or a multi-purpose facility that sports teams and others could use on non race-days (which is most of the time really). It should be an easier stand to bowl over than Riccarton.

All of the debate about Avondale doesn't seem to include anything constructive like tidying the place up dramatically. It all seems to focus around the fact that they have been there for years and despite the fact they are poorly run and the place looks like a tip they should be allowed to continue wasting a valuable resource.

There are a lot of race tracks around the country that are very run down. The industry has hardly spent any money on facilities since the early 90s. The best thing rita could do would be to buy a fleet of bulldozers and send them around the country. Ironically the most recent racecourse developments in the whole country are probably at Waimate.

Same issue in the CD . They are going to build an A/W at Awapuni , but Race are already in debt and are having to find circa $3mil to help finish the A/W , god knows where from . Yet 20 mins away one of the best winter tracks in NZ is sitting idle , Foxton .

No racing at Foxton since the fires a few years back but they still have the old public grandstand there , spend some money there getting the stand up to standard and their away racing . 

But no , we will spend $13mil for an A/W . When all we here is about reducing industry costs why are they hell bent on spending money on something that isn't required , when for probably much less than 10% of the cost of the A/W we having perfectly serviceable race track on our door step .

Foxton always attracted a good crowd on course and good competitive fields , has been sorely missed in the CD .

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16 hours ago, Charlie Bukowski said:

That was proactive getting the All Golds on track , utilising a floor of the Stand, are they still in business ??

Who's the one prick ?

The All Golds left a couple years ago. Can't remember the reason but there was one.

One thing about Avondale management they are realistic. When the figures weren't right they gave up racing for a few years. Similarly they haven't overspent then find themselves in the poo.  The quote for pulling down the old stand was at least $200,000. 

There is excellent potential for the club but I still consider given the population explosion out west and north there needs to be investigation for new racetrack in the region. Anywhere from Helensville through to Orewa.

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23 minutes ago, nomates said:

Same issue in the CD . They are going to build an A/W at Awapuni , but Race are already in debt and are having to find circa $3mil to help finish the A/W , god knows where from . Yet 20 mins away one of the best winter tracks in NZ is sitting idle , Foxton .

No racing at Foxton since the fires a few years back but they still have the old public grandstand there , spend some money there getting the stand up to standard and their away racing . 

But no , we will spend $13mil for an A/W . When all we here is about reducing industry costs why are they hell bent on spending money on something that isn't required , when for probably much less than 10% of the cost of the A/W we having perfectly serviceable race track on our door step .

Foxton always attracted a good crowd on course and good competitive fields , has been sorely missed in the CD .

Possibly should be putting the AWT and more training facilities there too? It's not just  a good winter track either. It's generally a forgiving summer surface too. Just needs the antique irrigation system upgrading.

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1 hour ago, We're Doomed said:

I find it interesting that Cambridge is spending something like $16m on their track, which has never been an actual racecourse, and Winston is now encouraging them to spend more money on a flash entrance and a grandstand so people can attend and watch the races. Basically the entire supporting structure for race-meetings is having to be developed from scratch.

Meanwhile Avondale has a track that everyone seems to acknowledge provides a good racing surface, and their main problem (apart from perhaps a dysfunctional committee) is an old dunger of a public grandstand.

I haven't been to Avondale since the days (nights) of night racing. In those days the members grandstand was reasonably flash. Surely a reasonable solution would be the knock down the public grandstand and replace it with a bit of an embankment or a multi-purpose facility that sports teams and others could use on non race-days (which is most of the time really). It should be an easier stand to bowl over than Riccarton.

All of the debate about Avondale doesn't seem to include anything constructive like tidying the place up dramatically. It all seems to focus around the fact that they have been there for years and despite the fact they are poorly run and the place looks like a tip they should be allowed to continue wasting a valuable resource.

There are a lot of race tracks around the country that are very run down. The industry has hardly spent any money on facilities since the early 90s. The best thing rita could do would be to buy a fleet of bulldozers and send them around the country. Ironically the most recent racecourse developments in the whole country are probably at Waimate.

Utterly pointless for industry style race meetings are stands/facilities, if so put something cheap up for $100k and spend money on the track.  The argument for having nice stands and facilities for every track is presented by people in the industry who haven't been able to achieve much despite all the time and resources they've had, the same people go to Flemington on Derby day and think that's racing and how it should be every day.

The Industry days are about generating revenue, bringing horses through the grades and generally turning the wheels of the industry, you do not need half million $ stands to cater for that but you need very good race tracks. 

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“interesting that Cambridge is spending something like $16m on their track, which has never been an actual racecourse, and Winston is now encouraging them to spend more money on a flash entrance and a grandstand”


Shows you Winny has absolutely no vision whatsoever, along with most politicians. Grandstands per se are an anachronism. Go to Caloundra Winny and take note!

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2 hours ago, nomates said:

Same issue in the CD . They are going to build an A/W at Awapuni , but Race are already in debt and are having to find circa $3mil to help finish the A/W , god knows where from . Yet 20 mins away one of the best winter tracks in NZ is sitting idle , Foxton .

No racing at Foxton since the fires a few years back but they still have the old public grandstand there , spend some money there getting the stand up to standard and their away racing . 

But no , we will spend $13mil for an A/W . When all we here is about reducing industry costs why are they hell bent on spending money on something that isn't required , when for probably much less than 10% of the cost of the A/W we having perfectly serviceable race track on our door step .

Foxton always attracted a good crowd on course and good competitive fields , has been sorely missed in the CD .

You speak good sense Nomates. I do have yourself and the two who liked your post down as three of the 6 or 7 people on here who generally speak good sense. It is sort of encouraging that there are half a doz or so reasonable intelligent people involved in the industry. Shows we don't necessarily need to appoint total outsiders to the various industry boards etc.

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1 hour ago, Leggy said:

Possibly should be putting the AWT and more training facilities there too? It's not just  a good winter track either. It's generally a forgiving summer surface too. Just needs the antique irrigation system upgrading.

A/W's at Awapuni or Foxton would be like greyhound tracks , that inside turn they use at Awapuni which will become the A/W track generally makes it very hard for horses coming from off the pace . Not a believer in the A/W's being required , fix the grass tracks we have because most are pretty well stuffed now and we will be fine . 

If a meeting at say Woodville is xfered to the A/W at Awapuni , how many of the horses that were going to race at Woodville because they require the heavy 10/11 conditions to be competitive , will scratch because they will go to fast for them on the A/W .

A/W's will extend the preps of summer/autumn horses to race further into winter than usual . This maybe the one area that might be of benefit , assuming that the majority of those horses handle the surface , it can be a specialist surface . And this is my biggest concern , have we got a big enough horse population .

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56 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

You speak good sense Nomates. I do have yourself and the two who liked your post down as three of the 6 or 7 people on here who generally speak good sense. It is sort of encouraging that there are half a doz or so reasonable intelligent people involved in the industry. Shows we don't necessarily need to appoint total outsiders to the various industry boards etc.

I appreciate your kind words , but i can assure you that i know of many more people and many of them of much higher intelligence that have all but given up saying anything . As i have said here on many occasions the powers that be don't want any help , they know it all . Plenty of people have offered opinion and suggestions which have drawn a blank for no other reason than they are considered small players of no consequence . Whilst the ones who hold some status or sway say nought , Why ? .

If they came out and asked everybody for ideas to remedy some of our issues , we could end up with a dozen really good ideas that could be shaped and worked into realistic and achievable projects that could help turn this industry around . Will it happen ? i doubt it will , but i live in hope .

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2 hours ago, nzhorseracing said:

Good thoughts. 

What can we all agree on?
* Avondale is a great track for racing
* Night racing is a great opportunity and proves popular in Australia
* Avondale facilities are worse than most rugby club rooms, very grim
* New Lynn is booming and West Auckland is improving all the time with new builds, shops and facilities
* Public transport, Trains, Buses are all on route of Avondale
* There really is no excuse for the state that Avondale is in other than management
* Avondale have had their chance and the executioners have arrived 
 

This is a pretty good summation.

Ive followed Avondale's issues for quite some time and remember some excellent racing in the good old days ,tho I lived abroad during the night racing debacle.

In particular been out to track for racing and trials in recent years , as well as talking to other participants .

And it has been discussed on this site for some years as well.

I can't see the point in slagging the place off , mainly because of its grim facilities and general 'personality' but its had its time and in 2020 even before the current crisis it was surplus to requirements.

People just don't seem to want to go there.......can be hard to quantify ,other than the disgraceful old stand.

It just doesn't feel inviting the climate seems different and spectators won't go. Travel in and out can be difficult for horses.There are next to no horses trained within 40km.

The horses nowdays are mainly trained in the Waikato and Auckland has Ellerslie and Pukekohe to serve the area ,and IMO Ellerslie is an excellent facility for the big days !

Like the Sahara ,everyone knows where Avondale is but no-one wants to go there.

Do something with it , decide who gets it ,move on ,course closed.

I've got an Avondale Cup win to boost my memories and a photo with Helen Clark !

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24 minutes ago, tasman man 11 said:

People just don't seem to want to go there.......can be hard to quantify ,other than the disgraceful old stand.

 

I am on neither side in this debate around Avondale , never been there , never seen the amenities . But from everything i hear or read the track is fantastic , and i'm not scared to punt on the races there . 

My point is that the racing industry needs to stop worrying about how many people are on course , the situation we are in means it's all about growing revenue , that means giving the punter the best product we can . It doesn't matter if the dollar comes from an on course punter or some one at home or the TAB as long as we are getting every available dollar . On course patronage is up to individual clubs . It's now about giving the punter the best product and getting them to bet . Great racing surfaces are part of that great product .

If Avondale has a great surface then utilize it . If Ellerslie want to continue down the path of selective choice of when they will race or not then give Avondale the lesser dates , they have had them for years , seem happy . 

If Avondale wasn't worth this estimated $200mil would this debate be taking place i think not . I've been to plenty of courses where the facilities are shite , and not just here , went to 2 meetings in Scotland last year where the facilities were very poor . Australia also .

Racings life is on the line and it's now or never , it's all about revenue now and growing it .

Saying that tho , bumped into an old timer i hadn't see for a few months this morning , he was , WAS , a $500+ punter on a Saturday at the local cossie TAB bar . No longer , cant get form , can't listen on the radio so has given up , how many others doing the same .

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1 hour ago, nomates said:

A/W's at Awapuni or Foxton would be like greyhound tracks , that inside turn they use at Awapuni which will become the A/W track generally makes it very hard for horses coming from off the pace . Not a believer in the A/W's being required , fix the grass tracks we have because most are pretty well stuffed now and we will be fine .

Definitely. If I put one at Foxton it would be separate on the council land to the north between the existing facility and the golf course., now mostly forest.

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57 minutes ago, nomates said:

My point is that the racing industry needs to stop worrying about how many people are on course , the situation we are in means it's all about growing revenue , that means giving the punter the best product we can . It doesn't matter if the dollar comes from an on course punter or some one at home or the TAB as long as we are getting every available dollar . On course patronage is up to individual clubs . It's now about giving the punter the best product and getting them to bet . Great racing surfaces are part of that great product .

Totally agree. Being saying it for years. Saundry now tells us that on average, on course revenue costs more to produce than it generates. So, there's no financial benefit. We are selling a wagering product and half the revenue comes from outside the country let alone oncourse. It's the racing product that needs fixing, not the oncourse viewing facilities.

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1 minute ago, Leggy said:

Definitely. If I put one at Foxton it would be separate on the council land to the north between the existing facility and the golf course., now mostly forest.

Well i suppose if they were really up for it , you could knock over the existing stand and completely realign the whole track encompassing the area behind the stand , tho not sure of the status of that area with the events people . Develop it as the all encompassing number one facility in the CD . Sell Trentham , gives the money to do . Just a thought .

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3 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Totally agree. Being saying it for years. Saundry now tells us that on average, on course revenue costs more to produce than it generates. So, there's no financial benefit. We are selling a wagering product and half the revenue comes from outside the country let alone oncourse. It's the racing product that needs fixing, not the oncourse viewing facilities.

Rita or whatever name it takes on , works on growing revenue , NZTR , GNZ , Harness focus on growing owner ship . Clubs focus on improving on course experience . 

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Clubs focus on improving racing surfaces and competitive racing first I say along with NZTR. Oncourse experience next. We need longer term growth and interest via that in part I think but it's not the priority or shouldn't be.

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7 minutes ago, nomates said:

I appreciate your kind words , but i can assure you that i know of many more people and many of them of much higher intelligence that have all but given up saying anything . As i have said here on many occasions the powers that be don't want any help , they know it all . Plenty of people have offered opinion and suggestions which have drawn a blank for no other reason than they are considered small players of no consequence . Whilst the one who hold some status or sway say nought , Why ? .

If they came out and asked everybody for ideas to remedy some of our issues , we could end up with a dozen really good ideas that could be shaped and worked into realistic and achievable projects that could help turn this industry around . Will it happen ? i doubt it will , but i live in hope .

It's always going to be like that when a guy from Aus see it as his mission to shrink the industry here, why we needed someone imported from Aus. to do that I'll never know.

What the likes of NZTR should be doing is assisting clubs where possible in reinvigorating their courses, training facilities etc instead of this dead end approach. They could put a set of metrics in place for these tracks to achieve over a given period of time and if they achieve them they can work with them in the industry, instead its so much easier to dump on them for the benefit of a few underachievers who for one reason or another are seen as strategic venues  - It's a hopeless case really, of everything that worries me in this industry the thing that needs changing the most is the lack of vision and leadership. 

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1 hour ago, Leggy said:

Totally agree. Being saying it for years. Saundry now tells us that on average, on course revenue costs more to produce than it generates. So, there's no financial benefit. We are selling a wagering product and half the revenue comes from outside the country let alone oncourse. It's the racing product that needs fixing, not the oncourse viewing facilities.

The great intangible is how many people get their initial introduction to racing by going on course. And since the off course experience is now being dumbed down also we probably need the on course experience even more. And as far as ownership goes we are very reliant on big syndicates these days and if you are part of a big syndicate you want to be able to go to big meetings to catch up with your fellow owners and you expect some atmosphere when you get there. 

It is a pity it is the meetings with big crowds that are the ones being dumped. I just can't help thinking many owners would much rather be at Omakau to see their horse race in front of 5,000 people rather than at Riccarton in front of 500.

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14 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

The great intangible is how many people get their initial introduction to racing by going on course. And since the off course experience is now being dumbed down also we probably need the on course experience even more. And as far as ownership goes we are very reliant on big syndicates these days and if you are part of a big syndicate you want to be able to go to big meetings to catch up with your fellow owners and you expect some atmosphere when you get there. 

It is a pity it is the meetings with big crowds that are the ones being dumped. I just can't help thinking many owners would much rather be at Omakau to see their horse race in front of 5,000 people rather than at Riccarton in front of 500.

Racing is an aspirational type business, whether youre in a syndicate or not or have a 6 figure horse, one you've breed or something you picked up on Gavelhouse , you aspire for the horse to be good enough to make certain races or race at certain meetings, we already have that structure in place a Karaka Million,an Oaks, Telegraph, Guineas , Winter Cup whatever. They all have the sufficient facilities or at least should have given the industry assistance they have got to provide that experience. The other venues need to provide a decent enough product to get punters to bet on or to attend in that family summer type festival, those are the experiences that stick in peoples minds and get them hooked on the sport and they work, yet our leadership want to kill off those days, can't see much of a future in doing that.

I just can't imagine young kids coming through in twenty years time saying I remember seeing such and such run on the AWT at Cambridge or Awapuni  it was one of the 43 meetings they had that season, no they don't remember that or even get hooked on it with those race days , its the ones I've mentioned before that get people involved and participating. Racing loses a bit of its sould racing on AWT imho, I watched some from Packenham this afternoon ...awful I thought.

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Lets just get one thing straight. Avondale gets huge crowds and gets it every week.

Avondale facilities are excellent. Just because the huge crowd is not on raceday is immaterial. The fact is it gets a huge crowd. I scratch my head every time someone says the facilities are poor. They are as good as any.

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