Midget 4,489 Report post Posted March 23, 2022 How much longer can Trainers be charged under the Work And Safety Act We have had S McKee and J Blackadder being charged and fined over $300.000 for allowing staff to ride when WSH say they were not ready to ride. We must find a better way to help and take the onus off the Trainers as who to blame when these situations happen. SO I HAVE AN IDEA..... Daniel Nakhie has started a course that makes a lot of sense, where potential riders and stable hands do a course which runs these people through all things Racing. This must be developed further and be given a accreditation certificate when completed.This way WSH cannot go and lay charges and finically ruin them when they allege the Trainers were negligent in there duty of care. NZTR should be all over this, to make sure the standards requirements are met .They have done things ,eg of appointing Riding Masters, which may be ok for Race day jockeys, but we need a system like Daniel Nakhie is doing and a similar one in the SI , to ensure that any Trainer who does take on staff, are secure knowing that the staff have been accredited AND THIS MUST BE FUNDED BY THE INDUSTRY. As i see it at the moment, who would want to take unexperienced staff members on, knowing that are massive fines awaiting them with the status que rules and regulations they face now. Berri, tasman man and Insider 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,551 Report post Posted March 23, 2022 It already is, Midge....Ross Beckett managing the ChCh operation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted March 24, 2022 So does Ross give them a certification clearance, to satisfy WHS requirements of competence ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
50 win no. 1 106 Report post Posted March 24, 2022 In any business you must have minimum health and safety standards. You must insure the skills are relevant to the tasks. There were rules in place , the rules weren't followed. It's a very bad look to blame the people that were disabled, very distasteful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Bidlake 760 Report post Posted March 24, 2022 https://www.google.com/search?q=irish+jockey+school+documentary&oq=irish+jockey+school+do&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j33i22i29i30l2.16840j0j7&client=ms-android-samsung-gj-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8# Something like this is what is needed. Pam Robson and Basil brush 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted March 24, 2022 3 hours ago, 50 win no. 1 said: In any business you must have minimum health and safety standards. You must insure the skills are relevant to the tasks. There were rules in place , the rules weren't followed. It's a very bad look to blame the people that were disabled, very distasteful. Are you on some form of medication, or cannot understand where i am coming from? The point i am trying to get across is before apprentice jockeys can be transferred to an employee to continue on there journey, they have been accredited to ride racehorses .Not doing what they are doing now, saying they have done so many years at pony clubs etc and trainers believe what has been told to them. Can you point me to were you believe ,i was distasteful to any of the injured parties? I am suggesting that a better system is in place to protect the riders and trainers from injury and financial ruin, as these two run parallel to each other. Insider, Breeder, Pam Robson and 2 others 4 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 609 Report post Posted March 24, 2022 Interesting videos Aaron. The "Power in the Blood" video below, about the Irish industry is really good. A bit off topic for this thread but well worth watching Aaron Bidlake 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
poundforpound 745 Report post Posted March 24, 2022 Firstly, the young lady who was hurt at Sticks was given the appropriate “green light” to ride after undergoing a course at Kyrewood in Palmerston North, so it’s hard to see why or how that prosecution ever succeeded Secondly, given the outrageous behaviour of the RIB and their army of ex cops ( see Operation Inca ) surely they should be deciding who can ride and when !! As an aside John Oatham claims to be an expert ……why doesn’t he certify all the “wannabe” jockeys Baz (NZ), napier and JJ Flash 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilcoyne 196 Report post Posted March 24, 2022 2 hours ago, poundforpound said: Firstly, the young lady who was hurt at Sticks was given the appropriate “green light” to ride after undergoing a course at Kyrewood in Palmerston North, so it’s hard to see why or how that prosecution ever succeeded Secondly, given the outrageous behaviour of the RIB and their army of ex cops ( see Operation Inca ) surely they should be deciding who can ride and when !! As an aside John Oatham claims to be an expert ……why doesn’t he certify all the “wannabe” jockeys Legal definition of an expert is "someone who has worked in their field of "expertise" for a minimum of 20 years. Cant remember Mr Oatham being a jockey or track work rider for 20 years so what does his claim to fame involve and can he actually ride a horse at "more than a light trot" see expert definition also popularly referred to as "a drip under pressure" Gruff 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,551 Report post Posted March 24, 2022 16 hours ago, Midget said: So does Ross give them a certification clearance, to satisfy WHS requirements of competence ? I presume so. Surely someone has to [ which, therefore means that those persons stand accountable too, which is another can of worms. ] There are 'training centres' around the country now [ I've been harping on about this for a long time, now that public tracks are not learner-friendly ] although, Ross excepted, I have concerns about the competence/experience of some of the designated 'rider trainers'. I agree, the Nakhle intiative looks excellent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
50 win no. 1 106 Report post Posted March 24, 2022 17 hours ago, Midget said: Are you on some form of medication, or cannot understand where i am coming from? The point i am trying to get across is before apprentice jockeys can be transferred to an employee to continue on there journey, they have been accredited to ride racehorses .Not doing what they are doing now, saying they have done so many years at pony clubs etc and trainers believe what has been told to them. Can you point me to were you believe ,i was distasteful to any of the injured parties? I am suggesting that a better system is in place to protect the riders and trainers from injury and financial ruin, as these two run parallel to each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
poundforpound 745 Report post Posted March 25, 2022 2 hours ago, 50 win no. 1 said: Did you ride a few yourself 50 ? Talk us through your expertise and help us understand why you’re so knowledgeable Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,096 Report post Posted March 25, 2022 4 hours ago, 50 win no. 1 said: I thought an apprenticeship WAS to teach them to ride racehorses, not that they already knew how to do that? Am I missing something here? arjay and Pam Robson 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted March 25, 2022 Yes you are missing something. When i started my apprenticeship, I had never been on a horses back, so had no idea how to even post. I was just thrown on one and with my lack of ability about riding, pulled a horse over on top of me, breaking a collar bone and my arm, with tears in my eyes my boss, said you better walk down to the doctor, which was 2km away.It was 6 months or more before i was even close to being confident enough to ride. The point i have been attempting to make is, that trainers must have some form of certification that has been signed off my an accredited person/s that will protect them from any safety concerns that Health and Safety may have. Many kids have had pony experience, but as you will know, there is a huge difference between riding a pony and a racehorse. The one point that should be acknowledged is that many Trainers have never ridden, so how can they be held accountable to the ability of the rider and what would be acceptable to satisfy the authorities? dock leaf, Pam Robson, Breeder and 2 others 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
poundforpound 745 Report post Posted March 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Midget said: Yes you are missing something. When i started my apprenticeship, I had never been on a horses back, so had no idea how to even post. I was just thrown on one and with my lack of ability about riding, pulled a horse over on top of me, breaking a collar bone and my arm, with tears in my eyes my boss, said you better walk down to the doctor, which was 2km away.It was 6 months or more before i was even close to being confident enough to ride. The point i have been attempting to make is, that trainers must have some form of certification that has been signed off my an accredited person/s that will protect them from any safety concerns that Health and Safety may have. Many kids have had pony experience, but as you will know, there is a huge difference between riding a pony and a racehorse. The one point that should be acknowledged is that many Trainers have never ridden, so how can they be held accountable to the ability of the rider and what would be acceptable to satisfy the authorities? And that was the high point of your career…it was all downhill after that…especially when the celebrity “pretty boy” Molloy turned up and cut your lunch Gruff, JJ Flash, richie and 2 others 1 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted March 26, 2022 The only Pretty Boy I would be frighten is Floyd Mayweather and all i will say about your reference is, Thank goodness your could hold your breath for 10 minutes. JJ Flash 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
poundforpound 745 Report post Posted March 26, 2022 22 minutes ago, Midget said: The only Pretty Boy I would be frighten is Floyd Mayweather and all i will say about your reference is, Thank goodness your could hold your breath for 10 minutes. I don’t want to debate the duration of the event you’re alluding to, however all I will say is that it took considerably less time than the Telegraph … with a strong tail wind .. and that 67 seconds included what you thought was foreplay What I do want to debate is the title of this thread, which somehow claims you’ve been “thinking” The veracity of such a claim is clearly questionable and patently absurd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted March 26, 2022 I have put the White Flag up and waving it. I have done what Putin should do and surrender. I am pleased i have helped to hone your debating skills, as you will be in hot demand in the coming months. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel 200 Report post Posted March 26, 2022 I remember when you were both riding, and this was in an era of really good riders and trainers. Times have certainly changed and there isn't the experience and knowledge to pass on as there used to be. I don't think you should surrender and doubt p4p needs to hone debating skills too much. JJ Flash and elbow 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted March 27, 2022 On 3/25/2022 at 6:07 AM, Pam Robson said: I presume so. Surely someone has to [ which, therefore means that those persons stand accountable too, which is another can of worms. ] There are 'training centres' around the country now [ I've been harping on about this for a long time, now that public tracks are not learner-friendly ] although, Ross excepted, I have concerns about the competence/experience of some of the designated 'rider trainers'. I agree, the Nakhle intiative looks excellent. No no no....an ex is a has been and a spirts a drip under pressure....hence expert Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted March 27, 2022 Sorry Pam...the wrong quote appeared it was meant to be the following by Kylcoin "Legal definition of an expert is "someone who has worked in their field of "expertise" for a minimum of 20 years. Cant remember Mr Oatham being a jockey or track work rider for 20 years so what does his claim to fame involve and can he actually ride a horse at "more than a light trot" see expert definition also popularly referred to as "a drip under pressure" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
poundforpound 745 Report post Posted March 27, 2022 21 hours ago, Berri said: Sorry Pam...the wrong quote appeared it was meant to be the following by Kylcoin "Legal definition of an expert is "someone who has worked in their field of "expertise" for a minimum of 20 years. Cant remember Mr Oatham being a jockey or track work rider for 20 years so what does his claim to fame involve and can he actually ride a horse at "more than a light trot" see expert definition also popularly referred to as "a drip under pressure" No Berri … he’s a self proclaimed expert I represented J Mac in his appeal after the 15 day suspension for harmlessly pushing out on the turn in the Karaka Million a couple of years ago I used a number of examples both international ( pick any raceday you wish in Sydney ) and domestic ( Troy Harris in the 2000 Guineas on Catalyst ) to demonstrate that it was both common place and in fact obligatory that you must push out on the turn to give your mount every opportunity ( see Leith Innes, he’s the master of the art ) …. anyway Oatham argued that he was the expert and it was not an allowable riding tactic … then he privately had a crack at Troy Harris for supporting my accurate assertions I had a modest career but I was never out of the top ten jockeys in NZ, and never not in the top three apprentices… but Oatham claimed he knew more than me !!!! He repeated the claim when they tried to crucify Billy Pinny My view is that he’s delusional, but sadly not alone in that state of mind at the RIB Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash 2,137 Report post Posted March 28, 2022 1 hour ago, poundforpound said: but Oatham claimed he knew more than me !!!! Ive got a great idea for his next career move, carrying Goff's bags to NZ House In London after another diabolical political appointment. Gruff 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerula 1,403 Report post Posted March 28, 2022 The poor bugger looks like he leads a joyless life Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
poundforpound 745 Report post Posted March 28, 2022 Oops, bad case of little fat fingers above Apologies, I meant Billy Pinn of course Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...