Ohokaman

Anybody else think Leo has been made the scapegoat here......???

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I dont think a lot of you have any idea what Leo does or has done in the past for charity.
I for one,  have witnessed some of his good will being dished out.

Yes, Leo is Leo, flamboyant, out there, not afraid to speak up, and he doesn’t hide behind anyone or an alias!
Proud to call him a friend!
Keep up the good work!

 

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I see Slam Dunk trying to stir up nonsense elsewhere about this thread and Leo and my friendship....As Chris says Leo is Leo and he does not hide behind a nom de plume without saying who he is and is happy to say what he thinks...unlike  Slam Dunk or The Centaur or whatever other alias he wants to hide behind....he would not have the guts to front up and say the things he says to his or anyones face...at least Leo does say it as he see's it and everyone is treated the same. He has probably done more in his life than most of the ones who can not stop whinging and moaning about him...some of them really need to just move on ...but alas I fear they can and will not. My old boss used to always say while they are talking about you they are worried about you...its when they stop you worry...JMO FWIW. Have a happy Sunday.

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3 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

.at least Leo does say it as he see's it and everyone is treated the same. He has probably done more in his life than most of the ones who can not stop whinging and moaning about him...some of them really need to just move on

I don't understand Scooby. This bloke was getting stuck in to everyone and anyone on your harness forum threads recently , including investigators and people doing their jobs, and with some very personal attacks launched on people. hard to support or condone that sort of behaviour on a racing thread. ?  

 You and I nor he, don't know what people (posters, workers, etc) have done ? Could very be model citizens? you say everyone treated the same by him, but is a jolly poor 'same ', 

there's one bloke who is the one doing the most whinging and moaning it seems?  anyway going back to the footy where we can do some good whinging !!!!

Carlton v Essendon are in action and is a ripper match.! 

 

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On 4/30/2021 at 7:41 AM, Dockers said:

I agree he has been harshly singled out. I remember at the time it was reported there had been quite a few breaches by different people. How was Leo singled out. Maybe for his controversial stance sometimes that decided to make him a scapegoat for everyone.  Shit Leo . Law sucks. 

perhaps he was singled out on reputation for being a publicity-seeking stirrer.

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1 hour ago, poundforpound said:

That’s not correct 

Leo ‚Äúgets into‚ÄĚ those involved with the prosecution of Inca....the liars and fabricators of evidence......Leo is right....Inca is a catastrophic failure in every possible way ¬†

Thank you for the correction Poundy pound........ and yes!! thank goodness INCA is a failure amongst all the good kiwi folk on sulky wheels.

Would of been a catastrophic 'disaster' if they found corruption/ drugs/ match fixing or what ever they were looking for amongst those fine horse-people. 

Kiwi horsemen have been near ''best in the World' for decades,  with Wolfie and 'Cardigan Bay' still being the bench-mark after more than half a century,

and the harness folk are also great people with ''Not a Bad word' to say about anyone, and just get the job done !!!  

Proof is this morning in USA  for kiwi's on wheels (whoops!!,,,,, I forgot the horse but plenty of HORSEPOWER)

at Indycar at Texas Speedway with 2 kiwi's running the Quinella !!! Scott Dixon and Scott McClaughlin 1-2 at the finish. !! World Class Performances.  Fantastic result for NZ. !

Reckon Leo would even be pleased with that result.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Pure Steel said:

, I forgot the horse but plenty of HORSEPOWER)

at Indycar at Texas Speedway with 2 kiwi's running the Quinella !!! Scott Dixon and Scott McClaughlin 1-2 at the finish. !! World Class Performances.  Fantastic result for NZ. !

AND because we all Love Racing and NOT grizzle-arsing all the time ...........another amazingly great result just now  !!!! not just the 2 Scott's for NZ at Indycar .......But wow yippee !!!

Australia just got a win with 208 HORSEPOWER.   as Jack Miller WINS the Spanish MotoGP. .very exciting. Just 2nd win (after the first one way back 2016) from 100 starts for him.

Fantastic!! What a great weekend for Aus/NZ just after ANZAC Day too. !!     Leo will be smiling !! maybe?

 

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Any person seriously concerned with changing the 'name suppression' law(s) in NZ would have adopted different tactics than merely thumbing his nose at it by knowingly breaking the law.
IMO Leo just got caught out and was made an example of -fairly or not. Can't say I've seen any evidence of him attempting to effect changes in the 'name suppression' laws

IMO Leo 'called out' the system and got.whacked over the head by it for his trouble. Lucky to avoid a jail sentence.

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Most reasonable people would agree that the law is (sometimes) an ass - and the way that the law is applied by the judiciary is (sometimes) appallingly bad.

However, the fact that Leo sometimes takes one for the team does not mean that he can break the law with impunity. What I would like to see is evidence that the law-breaking act (for which he has bee convicted) was part of a campaign to change the law for good ie the betterment of society, a more just/fair system. And what, if anything, is Leo doing to expedite this law change post-conviction?
Given his own assessment that he has 'absolute total support of 99% of the population', there must be some kind of lobby group/advocacy/movement gathering huge momentum after all this time - something to rival Me Too or BLM, perhaps?

Time for someone to 'go public' on this very important issue, Leo?

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5 hours ago, weasel57 said:

Most reasonable people would agree that the law is (sometimes) an ass - and the way that the law is applied by the judiciary is (sometimes) appallingly bad.

However, the fact that Leo sometimes takes one for the team does not mean that he can break the law with impunity. What I would like to see is evidence that the law-breaking act (for which he has bee convicted) was part of a campaign to change the law for good ie the betterment of society, a more just/fair system. And what, if anything, is Leo doing to expedite this law change post-conviction?
Given his own assessment that he has 'absolute total support of 99% of the population', there must be some kind of lobby group/advocacy/movement gathering huge momentum after all this time - something to rival Me Too or BLM, perhaps?

Time for someone to 'go public' on this very important issue, Leo?

what if you name a person then the trial comes along and there innocent meanwhile the person that has been named say as a rapist gets dealt with by an angry mob where's the justice then 

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16 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Leo has already partially funded one modest campaign and petition to government for The Sensible Sentencing Trust to overturn the abuse of suppression laws, and he’s about to partially fund another campaign with TSST with the same aim.

That‚Äôs¬†the ‚Äútip‚ÄĚ, I‚Äôm not inclined to show you the ‚Äúiceberg‚ÄĚ.....

 

so what you believe in is suppression of name should be banned entirely

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28 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Leo has already partially funded one modest campaign and petition to government for The Sensible Sentencing Trust to overturn the abuse of suppression laws, and he’s about to partially fund another campaign with TSST with the same aim.

That‚Äôs¬†the ‚Äútip‚ÄĚ, I‚Äôm not inclined to show you the ‚Äúiceberg‚ÄĚ.....

 

Fair enough. A 'modest campaign', I assume, is one that gathers no/little publicity or traction so I look forward to seeing the SST dominating the headlines in the next few weeks/months, with much to be made of the 'little guy' taking one (or more) for the team in the name of Justice.

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Laws are for the guidance of men and for the strict observance by fools.

Leo breached the law but before doing so he asked himself;

Will my actions affect or hinder the property or rights of anybody other than despicable narcissistic sociopathic recidivists.  Answer = NO.

So he did not speak the legalistic words, perform the rituals, recite its mantras and follow its commandments so he has been sentenced, banished, black listed, persecuted and punished.

Anybody who thinks that is fair has a different view on life than I have.

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6 hours ago, Tauhei Notts said:

Laws are for the guidance of men and for the strict observance by fools.

Leo breached the law but before doing so he asked himself;

Will my actions affect or hinder the property or rights of anybody other than despicable narcissistic sociopathic recidivists.  Answer = NO.

So he did not speak the legalistic words, perform the rituals, recite its mantras and follow its commandments so he has been sentenced, banished, black listed, persecuted and punished.

Anybody who thinks that is fair has a different view on life than I have.

Leo is certainly brave in 'breaking' the law that he knew to get his point across. ( The person he named is worse than scum ) 

As Gary said the 'justice' does turn in to lynch mobs and disgruntled folk and influenced Jury , once they know who the culprit is.

Australia just found out with Jarryd Hayne (rugby League player high profile rape case) as was a re-trial and with the publicity , he was on a hiding to nothing.

and ugly scenes outside court. probably a 'quieter' case with name suppression, would of been less detrimental to him. 

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51 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Does Australia even have suppression ?, not many countries do 

The reason I ask is that Cardinal George Pell was paraded around Victoria like a prized trophy as he faced an ignominious 29 charges of abusing minors, every single one of which was eventually dismissed, but not before the ‚Äúpiece of work‚ÄĚ Daniel¬†Andrews put the knife into Pell one last time, as had the low and vile Victorian Police a hundred times before him¬†

Pell got no protection but was deemed guilty until proven innocent ( which he was found to be, eventually, but not before his life was destroyed )

The Police often play ‚Äúdog‚Ä̬†tricks with this business, using tricks like parading a persons name or assets ( car / boat ) around until the entire country has heard¬†of the person, think Scott Wallace, then they charge him knowing he cannot possibly get a fair jury trial¬†

Sadly they have many tricks at their disposal 

Not sure of the Suppression. The Jarryd Hayne (NRL player rape case) was high profile and was a re-trial after split jury last time,  from the high public interest, and turned into a circus as with the intense media coverage the jury were influenced by more than the evidence given in court. A He said/ She said case (with taxi waiting ) he was on hiding to nothing. Jury already knowing of his 'narrow' escape from a rape case in USA. with a large settlement payment. 

Cardinal PELL was hopefully not committing offences himself but knew of those who were. We all probably know someone that has done Wrong things but sometimes 'Move On" and leave it in the past. The actual OFFENDERS are the ones who need rounding up by the authority's.

People like the Grace M killer and we had G Baden-Clay (wife killer) in Brisbane (who won't confess either ), so are abhorant brazen liars as well as killers, deserve to rot in hell.

Thank god they didn't get off, and can't work out how Leo does not have a 'wholly suspended' sentence  (like a warning), and it is implemented if re-offends , as 'naming a sicko' being a crime seems not quite right somehow, and Leo's sentence quite harsh in total, for that as well. 

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1 hour ago, poundforpound said:

Does Australia even have suppression ?, not many countries do 

The reason I ask is that Cardinal George Pell was paraded around Victoria like a prized trophy as he faced an ignominious 29 charges of abusing minors, every single one of which was eventually dismissed, but not before the ‚Äúpiece of work‚ÄĚ Daniel¬†Andrews put the knife into Pell one last time, as had the low and vile Victorian Police a hundred times before him¬†

Pell got no protection but was deemed guilty until proven innocent ( which he was found to be, eventually, but not before his life was destroyed )

The Police often play ‚Äúdog‚Ä̬†tricks with this business, using tricks like parading a persons name or assets ( car / boat ) around until the entire country has heard¬†of the person, think Scott Wallace, then they charge him knowing he cannot possibly get a fair jury trial¬†

Sadly they have many tricks at their disposal 

i think Australia has name suppression  some states may vary i think Uk  has it as well as Canada

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9 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

If you’re correct ( that’s debatable but I can’t be bothered checking ) you’ve found four countries in the entire world that have suppression, all commonwealth countries, what does that tell you ?

I might add that the media is forever trying to overturn suppression orders, even against innocent men like Joe Parker 

I note too that it‚Äôs alleged that 83%¬†of suppression orders are in favour of white men, usually ‚Äúwell to do‚ÄĚ older white men .....read what you will¬†into that¬†

Suppression orders in Australia: why you can't read what you may want to | Lawyer X | The Guardian


https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/dec/14/suppression-orders-australia-why-you-cant-read-what-you-may-want-to

even against innocent men like Joe Parker 

How do you know he is innnocent? He remains innocent in the eyes of the law (and reasonable people) until proven guilty.. He has been charged with a crime - as has, for instance, Manu Vatuvei, and until that charge is withdrawn by the Police (on behalf of the Crown), we should all keep a open mind. The public is entitled to know who has been charged - but if a Judge orders ongoing name suppression there  had better be a good reason for it - in the Millane case it was because other serious charges were oending,  - knowledge of which may have jeopardised the accused's right to  a fair trial.

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1 hour ago, Pure Steel said:

The Jarryd Hayne (NRL player rape case) was high profile and was a re-trial after split jury last time,  from the high public interest, and turned into a circus as with the intense media coverage the jury were influenced by more than the evidence given in court.

Apologies , a correction needed as I got mixed up with another case just been in court this week. Jack De Belin a high profile St George NRL player (and C Sinclair) is the one with the re-trial for rape , and have just had a jury unable to reach a verdict for a second time, so looks as if case will be dismissed.

It would of been impossible to suppress the name before the case , as in League crazy country , the rumours would abound as to why Not Playing? A jury could be influenced by not being a St George fan even (or by being a St George fan as well) No connection to the charges , but human bias kicks in. just ask Leo lol.

the law sucks sometimes with little biases happening. like parliament lol....

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12 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Fuck you’re potentially in big trouble now 

Joe Parker has NOT been charged with any crime, good luck defending yourself on that one ( I’ve screen saved your post ) 

As for the Millane case, the murderer had two trials pending, both JUDGE ONLY trials. He was found guilty of nine further charges, including two more violent rapes, and one assault with a weapon. He didn’t get sentenced to one single more day in jail, rather his sentences were all concurrent 

There was NO reasonable chance of jeopardizing any subsequent trial....that’s fantasy stuff 

I note that DS Scott Beard has since said that since Kempson was publicly named two further victims have come forward......where is the balance ?, protect the murderer and other victims don’t come forward because they’re unaware of the name or identity of the offender , re-victimize the victim and other victims won’t come forward because the judicial system shames them......is that what you want, or what you think is fair and just in a civilized society ?

 

My mistake. I apologise.

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3 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Does Australia even have suppression ?, not many countries do 

The reason I ask is that Cardinal George Pell was paraded around Victoria like a prized trophy as he faced an ignominious 29 charges of abusing minors, every single one of which was eventually dismissed, but not before the ‚Äúpiece of work‚ÄĚ Daniel¬†Andrews put the knife into Pell one last time, as had the low and vile Victorian Police a hundred times before him¬†

Pell got no protection but was deemed guilty until proven innocent ( which he was found to be, eventually, but not before his life was destroyed )

The Police often play ‚Äúdog‚Ä̬†tricks with this business, using tricks like parading a persons name or assets ( car / boat ) around until the entire country has heard¬†of the person, think Scott Wallace, then they charge him knowing he cannot possibly get a fair jury trial¬†

Sadly they have many tricks at their disposal 

George Pelli innocent. And pigs fly. He had total knowl

 

2 hours ago, Pure Steel said:

Not sure of the Suppression. The Jarryd Hayne (NRL player rape case) was high profile and was a re-trial after split jury last time,  from the high public interest, and turned into a circus as with the intense media coverage the jury were influenced by more than the evidence given in court. A He said/ She said case (with taxi waiting ) he was on hiding to nothing. Jury already knowing of his 'narrow' escape from a rape case in USA. with a large settlement payment. 

Cardinal PELL was hopefully not committing offences himself but knew of those who were. We all probably know someone that has done Wrong things but sometimes 'Move On" and leave it in the past. The actual OFFENDERS are the ones who need rounding up by the authority's.

People like the Grace M killer and we had G Baden-Clay (wife killer) in Brisbane (who won't confess either ), so are abhorant brazen liars as well as killers, deserve to rot in hell.

Thank god they didn't get off, and can't work out how Leo does not have a 'wholly suspended' sentence  (like a warning), and it is implemented if re-offends , as 'naming a sicko' being a crime seems not quite right somehow, and Leo's sentence quite harsh in total, for that as well. 

Cardinal Pell case was a joke. He had full knowledge of what went on in his seedy cult if the church. Very lucky to get off. Catholic Church has a lot of power and money. 

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9 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Funny you should mention that 

So all those charged under Inca, when the investigation first broke, had immediate name suppression .... then the RIU suspended their licenses effective immediately and banned them from all racecourses ..... is that suppression compliance ? or an outrageous breach that clearly identified those charged, given that the countries best drivers and trainers were amongst those charged 

Are you only suspended and disqualified after the proof of guilt is submitted??  and a sentence reached in harness racing.? Innocent until proven guilty, even then you can continue on training on a 'stay of proceedings' if an appeal is lodged, while appeal case is being assembled.

Personally I think NRL players, Jack De Belin and Jarryd Hayne should of been allowed to continue playing while the court cases were assembled. One ultimately found guilty and jailed and one has been dismissed after 2 trials. Very tough on all involved. no winners.

What if a school Teacher is 'pranked' by a spiteful school child by alleging a groping or similar?? there name should be suppressed for reputation sake ??(and the family and school) but what can you do ?? The person has to be stood down from teaching (no choice) , with a possible pending serious charge. and no proof of anything, ? very sad . no winners.

This year the AUSTRALIAN of the year was a young lady , silenced by gag laws, that had been groomed into sex by a teacher. so ALL allegations are taken seriously. The gag laws save the school from shame I guess. no winners. very sad. great she (Grace Tame) has recovered and fighting for others in awful situations.

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4 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

You need to do more reading 

An active case here in Auckland, known as the Dilworth school case, half those teachers charged with offenses against young boys got name suppression, four didn’t ..... the result, after the four teachers without suppression had their names  published 80, yes 80, more victims came forward .... you work it out 

That sounds totally awful. Hope all the boys have recovered over the years to lead normal lives.

Rolf Harris and Jimmy Savile and Robert Hughes(Hey dad tv) all attracted plenty of further victims , once the charges were started off, by some brave souls as well. pretty awful. just like the church stuff really.

As far as Harness racing goes , I have NO problem if charged people with anything are NAMED. They just have to be thick skinned enough and honest enough to tough it out , as we would in the stewards room , after a race where you skittled half the field. Believe me you deny everything there too, if you can and just blame the horse, or the mud in your eye , or whatever. VERY RARELY would you dob on your mates , as can only come back to bite you later.

What is suppression going to achieve? from 'you work it out' , do you mean anyone with a grievance against the accused could rush forward with evidence? ??as seems the case at Dilworth.. 

Can you rush forward with evidence to the contrary as well ?

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