Griffin

Kentucky Derby Coverage

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Looks like the new Sky head of sport is not too interested in Horse Racing, no ESPN coverage of the Derby this morning like previous years. Seems he prefers humans kicking and scratching each other in the UFC.

Could Trackside  not put Tan and Co. on this morning to cover the most popular horse race in the world. Even Tan would be better than elevator music, just.

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22 minutes ago, Griffin said:

Looks like the new Sky head of sport is not too interested in Horse Racing, no ESPN coverage of the Derby this morning like previous years. Seems he prefers humans kicking and scratching each other in the UFC.

Could Trackside  not put Tan and Co. on this morning to cover the most popular horse race in the world. Even Tan would be better than elevator music, just.

Looks like a slopfest again , get the lead or eat mud .

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I would love to read a critical analysis of the interference in the Kentucky Derby.  The good thing about this blog is that there are a number of highly trained people knowledgeable in that field and their comments would be welcomed.

I see the first past the post was relegated to seventh.  I cannot recall a similar occurrence.

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Just seen news and had another look. They have so many  more angles covered  but didn't look like much from TV angle . Been a few DQs over years in US that seem baffling . Pom filly who's name escapes me at moment  merely looked  at  runner up at Arlington couple years ago as she breezed by got DQd yet Bayern smashed half field out the gate in Classic and kept it .

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Yeah the coverage was very poor, especially that awful funk music they play just before the race. I assume it's a cost cutting measure, cheaper not to pay for the decent coverage from the US networks. We didn't even get any noise of the crowd. I found other coverage online from the US that gave much better insight into what was going on after the race. 

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58 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Just seen news and had another look. They have so many  more angles covered  but didn't look like much from TV angle . Been a few DQs over years in US that seem baffling . Pom filly who's name escapes me at moment  merely looked  at  runner up at Arlington couple years ago as she breezed by got DQd yet Bayern smashed half field out the gate in Classic and kept it .

The problem is that it should really have been the horse that was wiped out on the turn protesting, not the runner up who was not really hampered. I think Maximum Security should have won but the interference put the steward in a tricky spot because under their rules he had to be disqualified. It's a shame but there was very nearly a bad fall from the incident which would have been an even worse result for the sport which is struggling in the US as it is. 

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1 hour ago, mckenzie said:

The problem is that it should really have been the horse that was wiped out on the turn protesting, not the runner up who was not really hampered. I think Maximum Security should have won but the interference put the steward in a tricky spot because under their rules he had to be disqualified. It's a shame but there was very nearly a bad fall from the incident which would have been an even worse result for the sport which is struggling in the US as it is. 

Few new angles now on you tube , not sure how it didn't end up a pile up, very lucky . Looks pretty scary stuff .

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Stuff report that the winner paid $132 for a win in the USA.  When bringing news to New Zealanders it is best to show the dividends as they apply to New Zealanders.  He paid $70 here. 

Yeah, I know the Septics declare divies to a $2 stake. 

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Yes the US economy is going great. Ours will head south under these losers Winston gave us.

The discretionary spend is down here obviously and will fall further NZ Racing in trouble!

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This is in response to Tauhei Notts.  This is my first post, so I hope his/her quote will show up in my post.

I believe that Maximum Security should have kept the race.  Having been racing in 18 countries (including your beautiful one) most subscribe to the Category 1 rules on DQs, in that, if contact occurs, but does not impact the outcome of the race, the winner keeps it.  In the US, we follow Category 2 rules on DQs and will freely DQ a winner despite the fact that it did not affect the outcome of the race.

My conclusion comes from the uneven nature of the racing surface as a result of the deluge of rain leading up the race.  Maximum Security's contact was not the only contact in the race, but was the most noticable.  Very simple, I don't think he was getting a hold of the track, but their is a new video showing that War of Will maybe have made impact on MS's back legs when he moved out to go around  MS. Disregarding that for the moment, I will post my analysis in debating the DQ with another person on a US forum who supported the DQ.  I hope you find it useful.  Here goes:

Concerning Long Range Toddy, I'm sure the "tap" that War of Will gave him at the 3/8th pole didn't help and may have started his demise. Also keep in mind, if Long Range Toddy was fast enough, he would have never lost his position off of Maximum Security's right flank, by allowing War of Will to squeeze by. Long Range Toddy had already started to weaken out of the race. The contact at the 5/16th pole just hastened his retreat. He was never going to contest the finish of the race.

By the time they hit the quarter pole Maximum Security, Code of Honor, War of Will, and Country House were all in full stride. It looked to me that Code of Honor had Maximum Security by about a head, with Country House a neck behind Maximum Security and War of Will about 3/4 length behind Maximum Security. War of Will was never 5 lengths back after the contact, maybe 1 1/4 length at best. He lost maybe a 1/2 length in the contact and was beaten 4 1/2 lengths at the finish.

So at the 1/4 pole, we have 4 horses across the track within a length of each other. Each horse had a fair opportunity to win. Only Maximum Security and War of Will were affected by the contact. Country House may have had to go one more path wide but never lost momentum and was continuously ridden. Also while approaching the 1/4 pole it looked like Country House came in a bit and gave War of Will a "tap". Though the video angle is not the best (no head on available).

From the 1/4 pole on, the afore mentioned 4 horses all, if good enough, could win.

At the 1/8 pole, Maximum Security had gone clear of Country House by a length, with War of Will and Code of Honor 1 1/4 behind. At this point, Gafflione stated that War of Will was done. He could not match the pace of Maximum Security and was never going to beat him. He discussed as much with Casse, that's why no objection from them.

At the 1/16 pole, Maximum Security has extended his lead over Country House to what looks like 1 1/2 length with Code of Honor passing War of Will about 2 lengths back.

At the Finish, Maximum Security is still extending his lead to win by 1 3/4 length over Country House with Code of Honor beaten in third by 2 1/2 lengths.

Just out of curiousity, I just read the Equibase chart. What a piece of fiction, expecially concerning BodeExpress. Again, he felt the knock on effect when War of Will came out and tapped Long Range Toddy, who in turn tapped BodeExpress at the 3/8 pole. BodeExpress took up slightly during the subsequent contact, but he was already done by that point and was never going to figure in the finish.

Equibase is a free US racing website that provides the offical post race charts and other great statistical information.

I hope my post was helpful.

 

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This is a great story, and includes a clip worth watching.

https://www.punters.com.au/news/kentucky-derby-fill-up-for-aussie-punters_179922/

"Mike Dalton and his mates have always talked about attending the Kentucky Derby, so this year they took the plunge and ventured across the world.

They expected to have a good time, but they couldn't have predicted the financial fill-up that was to follow.

Sitting around their Airbnb accommodation a couple of days ago, the lads turned to their favourite Kentucky Derby-related video on YouTube for a bit of entertainment.

The clip, which surfaced about five years ago, shows American television presenter Ken Rudulph tipping 50-1 outsider Giacomo to win the 2005 Kentucky Derby...."

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14 hours ago, Scanman said:

This is in response to Tauhei Notts.  This is my first post, so I hope his/her quote will show up in my post.

I believe that Maximum Security should have kept the race.  Having been racing in 18 countries (including your beautiful one) most subscribe to the Category 1 rules on DQs, in that, if contact occurs, but does not impact the outcome of the race, the winner keeps it.  In the US, we follow Category 2 rules on DQs and will freely DQ a winner despite the fact that it did not affect the outcome of the race.

My conclusion comes from the uneven nature of the racing surface as a result of the deluge of rain leading up the race.  Maximum Security's contact was not the only contact in the race, but was the most noticable.  Very simple, I don't think he was getting a hold of the track, but their is a new video showing that War of Will maybe have made impact on MS's back legs when he moved out to go around  MS. Disregarding that for the moment, I will post my analysis in debating the DQ with another person on a US forum who supported the DQ.  I hope you find it useful.  Here goes:

Concerning Long Range Toddy, I'm sure the "tap" that War of Will gave him at the 3/8th pole didn't help and may have started his demise. Also keep in mind, if Long Range Toddy was fast enough, he would have never lost his position off of Maximum Security's right flank, by allowing War of Will to squeeze by. Long Range Toddy had already started to weaken out of the race. The contact at the 5/16th pole just hastened his retreat. He was never going to contest the finish of the race.

By the time they hit the quarter pole Maximum Security, Code of Honor, War of Will, and Country House were all in full stride. It looked to me that Code of Honor had Maximum Security by about a head, with Country House a neck behind Maximum Security and War of Will about 3/4 length behind Maximum Security. War of Will was never 5 lengths back after the contact, maybe 1 1/4 length at best. He lost maybe a 1/2 length in the contact and was beaten 4 1/2 lengths at the finish.

So at the 1/4 pole, we have 4 horses across the track within a length of each other. Each horse had a fair opportunity to win. Only Maximum Security and War of Will were affected by the contact. Country House may have had to go one more path wide but never lost momentum and was continuously ridden. Also while approaching the 1/4 pole it looked like Country House came in a bit and gave War of Will a "tap". Though the video angle is not the best (no head on available).

From the 1/4 pole on, the afore mentioned 4 horses all, if good enough, could win.

At the 1/8 pole, Maximum Security had gone clear of Country House by a length, with War of Will and Code of Honor 1 1/4 behind. At this point, Gafflione stated that War of Will was done. He could not match the pace of Maximum Security and was never going to beat him. He discussed as much with Casse, that's why no objection from them.

At the 1/16 pole, Maximum Security has extended his lead over Country House to what looks like 1 1/2 length with Code of Honor passing War of Will about 2 lengths back.

At the Finish, Maximum Security is still extending his lead to win by 1 3/4 length over Country House with Code of Honor beaten in third by 2 1/2 lengths.

Just out of curiousity, I just read the Equibase chart. What a piece of fiction, expecially concerning BodeExpress. Again, he felt the knock on effect when War of Will came out and tapped Long Range Toddy, who in turn tapped BodeExpress at the 3/8 pole. BodeExpress took up slightly during the subsequent contact, but he was already done by that point and was never going to figure in the finish.

Equibase is a free US racing website that provides the offical post race charts and other great statistical information.

I hope my post was helpful.

 

Off subject slightly but obviously you are well up with the play in US. What's your thoughts on how racing heading there with the Santa Anita problems, track closures , Racino's, drug rules  etc.Seems at times from afar  its under seige but top meetings seem as popular as ever. I like the top US racing  and some of world's bests tracks imho.

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10 hours ago, Red Rum said:

Off subject slightly but obviously you are well up with the play in US. What's your thoughts on how racing heading there with the Santa Anita problems, track closures , Racino's, drug rules  etc.Seems at times from afar  its under seige but top meetings seem as popular as ever. I like the top US racing  and some of world's bests tracks imho.

My pleasure to give you my thoughts on racing here in the US.  You already know how I feel about DQ rules.  Because of my worldwide travels, I think we could learn a lot concerning how racing is conducted around the world.

Santa Anita - Maybe they were damn unlucky. They worked and re-worked the tracks.  They have some of the best out there.  Lots thought that the foundation was never addressed when they removed the polytrack a few years ago and that may have been the problem when they had an excessive amount of rain this past winter.  Now that the rains have let up, they haven't quite had the problem/deaths they were having.

Drug Rules - I wish we followed the rest of the world's standard.  Get rid of race day meds, re. Lasix.  I had a horse (stakes winner) ran better without it.  The sport did fine before it was permitted. 

Track closures - We haven't had many, mostly the smaller venues/fair track.  We lost the two in South Dakota due to their state funding.  The stink of that is that their government "stole" around 2 million dollars (I think it was in the early 2000's).  Now when the are struggling a bit, they don't want to support racing.  Lots of good local people/volunteers at the local level trying to effect change and re-boot in 2020.  We will lose Suffolk Downs (Boston) after this year due to commercial development (Avondale watch out-residential), but there is talk that one of their defunct tracks, Great Barrington Fair, is considering renovation and will pick up their dates.  We lost racing in Portland Meadows earlier in the year for commercial redevelopment, but another Oregon track, Grants Pass, is looking to pick up their dates and there is talk of building a replacement just outside Portland.  We lost Hazel Park (Detroit), last year, but racing in Michigan just isn't well supported.  They had a number of closures (Great Lakes Downs, Mount Pleasant Meadows, and Pinnacle) over the past ten years or so.  But we got one back this year in Arizona.  Yavapai Downs is re-opening/re-branded as Arizona Downs in the Prescott Valley (lovely little place).  The really good news is that none of our "major" tracks haven't closed lately, less Hollywood Park a few years ago.  With the Preakness running a week from Saturday, you may here that Pimlico (Baltimore) should be closed and the race moved to Laurel (midway between Baltimore and Washington DC).  I've been to Pimlico (ran there a couple of times) and yes, it's in "the hood" and is in drastic need of investment to improve the grounds/stands, but Pimlico (to me) is a national treasure.  It was built in another time and has so much history attached to it.  I hope the powers that be in Maryland will do what's necessary to keep it in place.

Racinos - I think they are great!  The track that I "cut my racing teeth on", Penn National (Pennsylvania) is a now a racino (I now make my home in Orlando, Florida).  Racing was in great shape before state and national lotteries; and other stand-alone casinos came on line around the mid-1980s.  Racinos have kept so many tracks afloat/succeed.  For me, it was a way to level the field when the revenue that was going into racing was taken from them by other forms of legalized gambling.  The states that were willing to work with the racing industry, by placing a full-service casino/slots/card room, and funneling a percentage of profits back to racing are either doing alright or thriving.  This is one model that the rest of world could model from the US.

Co-Mingling of National Pari-Mutual Wagering Pools - I know you didn't ask about this, but I am compelled to offer you my thoughts on it.  I LOVE racing in the UK, Ireland, France, Australia, and of course, New Zealand.  The problem is that I cannot wager directly into their national Tote/PMU/TAB pools.  When I bet on races in these countries here, my bets go to a wagering hub (I think it is located at Woodbine/Canada) and these pools are small and sometimes not worth betting in to.  Many people here in the US are turning to punting on racing in Hong Kong because they allow us to wager directly into their pools, which day-to-day, are the biggest in the world.

Top Meetings - It seems they are doing as well as ever.  Probably the biggest success story is Oaklawn (Arkansas).  For their location, the purse structure is on steroids.  The triple crown races and preps; the graded races and Breeders Cup are doing well; though the TC and BC only get national network television coverage.

World's Best Tracks - Yes, we have some of the best and when I say this you might think "this guy is full of ****".  I've been racing in 17 countries (to correct what I wrote in my first post) and have visited 376 thoroughbred racecourses/12 in New Zealand (I was in/am retired from the US Navy, living in Scotland, Australia, and Belgium; tried really hard to get posted in Christchurch when we had a unit there) and I've seen many of the best in world, less UAE, Hong Kong, and Japan (though I know there are still a few out there in countries that I have visited, example Ellerslie, Flemington).  In the US, I would put these at the top of my list: 1) Del Mar, So. Cal, 2) Arlington Park, Chicago, 3) Saratoga, New York, 4) Santa Anita, So Cal, and 5) Keeneland, Kentucky.  These would easily fall into my top 5% of racecourses visited.

Racing in New Zealand - I made a long overdue visit in Feb/Mar 2018.  My visit was awesome and my hosts are each racecourse extended exemplary hospitality (much better than I get here at home).  I even had a look at Taupo and Thames, who were not racing.  Sad to hear that Thames will be closing.  For me, it is disgusting decision, lovely little track and town.  My favorite was Te Aroha, but I greatly enjoyed my visit at each of the other 11.  Can't wait to get back there.  Someday, I will get around to write a post concerning my visit and the track closure decision there that was announced a few months ago.

Crikey, that got long, but I hope you will find my response interesting and illuminating.

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48 minutes ago, Scanman said:

My pleasure to give you my thoughts on racing here in the US.  You already know how I feel about DQ rules.  Because of my worldwide travels, I think we could learn a lot concerning how racing is conducted around the world.

Santa Anita - Maybe they were damn unlucky. They worked and re-worked the tracks.  They have some of the best out there.  Lots thought that the foundation was never addressed when they removed the polytrack a few years ago and that may have been the problem when they had an excessive amount of rain this past winter.  Now that the rains have let up, they haven't quite had the problem/deaths they were having.

Drug Rules - I wish we followed the rest of the world's standard.  Get rid of race day meds, re. Lasix.  I had a horse (stakes winner) ran better without it.  The sport did fine before it was permitted. 

Track closures - We haven't had many, mostly the smaller venues/fair track.  We lost the two in South Dakota due to their state funding.  The stink of that is that their government "stole" around 2 million dollars (I think it was in the early 2000's).  Now when the are struggling a bit, they don't want to support racing.  Lots of good local people/volunteers at the local level trying to effect change and re-boot in 2020.  We will lose Suffolk Downs (Boston) after this year due to commercial development (Avondale watch out-residential), but there is talk that one of their defunct tracks, Great Barrington Fair, is considering renovation and will pick up their dates.  We lost racing in Portland Meadows earlier in the year for commercial redevelopment, but another Oregon track, Grants Pass, is looking to pick up their dates and there is talk of building a replacement just outside Portland.  We lost Hazel Park (Detroit), last year, but racing in Michigan just isn't well supported.  They had a number of closures (Great Lakes Downs, Mount Pleasant Meadows, and Pinnacle) over the past ten years or so.  But we got one back this year in Arizona.  Yavapai Downs is re-opening/re-branded as Arizona Downs in the Prescott Valley (lovely little place).  The really good news is that none of our "major" tracks haven't closed lately, less Hollywood Park a few years ago.  With the Preakness running a week from Saturday, you may here that Pimlico (Baltimore) should be closed and the race moved to Laurel (midway between Baltimore and Washington DC).  I've been to Pimlico (ran there a couple of times) and yes, it's in "the hood" and is in drastic need of investment to improve the grounds/stands, but Pimlico (to me) is a national treasure.  It was built in another time and has so much history attached to it.  I hope the powers that be in Maryland will do what's necessary to keep it in place.

Racinos - I think they are great!  The track that I "cut my racing teeth on", Penn National (Pennsylvania) is a now a racino (I now make my home in Orlando, Florida).  Racing was in great shape before state and national lotteries; and other stand-alone casinos came on line around the mid-1980s.  Racinos have kept so many tracks afloat/succeed.  For me, it was a way to level the field when the revenue that was going into racing was taken from them by other forms of legalized gambling.  The states that were willing to work with the racing industry, by placing a full-service casino/slots/card room, and funneling a percentage of profits back to racing are either doing alright or thriving.  This is one model that the rest of world could model from the US.

Co-Mingling of National Pari-Mutual Wagering Pools - I know you didn't ask about this, but I am compelled to offer you my thoughts on it.  I LOVE racing in the UK, Ireland, France, Australia, and of course, New Zealand.  The problem is that I cannot wager directly into their national Tote/PMU/TAB pools.  When I bet on races in these countries here, my bets go to a wagering hub (I think it is located at Woodbine/Canada) and these pools are small and sometimes not worth betting in to.  Many people here in the US are turning to punting on racing in Hong Kong because they allow us to wager directly into their pools, which day-to-day, are the biggest in the world.

Top Meetings - It seems they are doing as well as ever.  Probably the biggest success story is Oaklawn (Arkansas).  For their location, the purse structure is on steroids.  The triple crown races and preps; the graded races and Breeders Cup are doing well; though the TC and BC only get national network television coverage.

World's Best Tracks - Yes, we have some of the best and when I say this you might think "this guy is full of ****".  I've been racing in 17 countries (to correct what I wrote in my first post) and have visited 376 thoroughbred racecourses/12 in New Zealand (I was in/am retired from the US Navy, living in Scotland, Australia, and Belgium; tried really hard to get posted in Christchurch when we had a unit there) and I've seen many of the best in world, less UAE, Hong Kong, and Japan (though I know there are still a few out there in countries that I have visited, example Ellerslie, Flemington).  In the US, I would put these at the top of my list: 1) Del Mar, So. Cal, 2) Arlington Park, Chicago, 3) Saratoga, New York, 4) Santa Anita, So Cal, and 5) Keeneland, Kentucky.  These would easily fall into my top 5% of racecourses visited.

Racing in New Zealand - I made a long overdue visit in Feb/Mar 2018.  My visit was awesome and my hosts are each racecourse extended exemplary hospitality (much better than I get here at home).  I even had a look at Taupo and Thames, who were not racing.  Sad to hear that Thames will be closing.  For me, it is disgusting decision, lovely little track and town.  My favorite was Te Aroha, but I greatly enjoyed my visit at each of the other 11.  Can't wait to get back there.  Someday, I will get around to write a post concerning my visit and the track closure decision there that was announced a few months ago.

Crikey, that got long, but I hope you will find my response interesting and illuminating.

Thank you Scanman I found this a very interesting and informative read . I take from it US racing is in a better position than it sometimes appears which is great to read.

Very little US racing was available to view years ago but my interest started when Tolemeo and Teleprompter won the iconic Arlington Million, John Henry was a name popular outside the US a true  warrior . Then I always looked forward to the Breeders Cup as it was live  , highlights now for me Pebbles beating Strawberry Road ,  Arazi slicing through the field still amazes me years later  (incidently Arazi still alive as of late last year in retirement at a stud outside Melbourne ). Ferdinand v Alysheba . Easy Goer v Sunday Silence , for me I just love the 1989 BC Classic , the names of the horses , the commentary simply brilliant . " Easy Goer beginning to roll"  " Sunday Silence bracing for the oncoming power of Easy Goer " and finally as every ounce of energy is expended by horse and jockey in a desperate final lunge " Easy Goer with one final exceleration" . Sport at its best.

I would highly recommend  Happy Valley on a Wednesday night as part of your travels , and Meydan is on my list with Arlington Park as that place has always been a place I want to see as my earlier comments on John Henry , Tolemeo and Teleprompter. Watched some old Chester Vase races on you tube last night as Chester  May meeting  on at moment and old Golden Pheasent pop up running in one . He was a champ alright.

Thanks again for a very interesting post .

 

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10 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Thank you Scanman I found this a very interesting and informative read . I take from it US racing is in a better position than it sometimes appears which is great to read.

Very little US racing was available to view years ago but my interest started when Tolemeo and Teleprompter won the iconic Arlington Million, John Henry was a name popular outside the US a true  warrior . Then I always looked forward to the Breeders Cup as it was live  , highlights now for me Pebbles beating Strawberry Road ,  Arazi slicing through the field still amazes me years later  (incidently Arazi still alive as of late last year in retirement at a stud outside Melbourne ). Ferdinand v Alysheba . Easy Goer v Sunday Silence , for me I just love the 1989 BC Classic , the names of the horses , the commentary simply brilliant . " Easy Goer beginning to roll"  " Sunday Silence bracing for the oncoming power of Easy Goer " and finally as every ounce of energy is expended by horse and jockey in a desperate final lunge " Easy Goer with one final exceleration" . Sport at its best.

I would highly recommend  Happy Valley on a Wednesday night as part of your travels , and Meydan is on my list with Arlington Park as that place has always been a place I want to see as my earlier comments on John Henry , Tolemeo and Teleprompter. Watched some old Chester Vase races on you tube last night as Chester  May meeting  on at moment and old Golden Pheasent pop up running in one . He was a champ alright.

Thanks again for a very interesting post .

 

Cheers.  Funny that you mention Tolomeo.  I was living in Scotland at the time and tipped him up to my father (who didn't bet him) for the 1983 Arlington Million.  Arlington Park used to be at the top of my US/World list, but during a subsequent visit they've allow the trees in the infield to overgrow and now viewing parts of a race are obstructed.  But the grandstand is like a palace and their grounds are immaculate.

I enjoyed many of the horses you mentioned run, particularly Arzai's juvenile BC win.  I was also a big fan of Alysheba.  In more recent times, my favorite horse would be Barbaro.  Sad to see his potential was never realized after getting injured in the Preakness.

God willing, I will get to Happy Valley and Meydan.  Still so many racecourses to visit and so little time and money.

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