Scanman

That may be true. Though, I would much prefer to bet into a multi-million dollar pool (HK), than a $3-5K pool (OZ/NZ racing) here in the US. However, my initial post was not directed towards the punter, though, in the end, they benefit as well.. My post was addressing Aaron's concern about driviing up turnover to increase purses. Simple formula really. Highter turnover = Higher purses = greater ownership involvement/sustainablility = more horses bred/bought/sold = more horses running in races = equals better betting opportunities for the punter.; and repeat. It really is a no lose situation.

Apologies for the triplicate post. Moderater, please remove two of them.

The co-mingling of international pools. Imagine if the Chinese were able to bet into NZ tote pools. Would result in record turnover. I'm sure the technology exist, just not the will to work out the appropriate interational agreements. In the US, I am able to bet into the HK pools. Makes for some excellent betting opportunities. And then, there are those like me that would love the opportunity to bet into the NZ pools, but cannot. Our wagers here on NZ and OZ racing go into a central hub (I believe located at Woodbine racecourse in Toronto, but I could be wrong). In any event, the paultry amount to handle does not make it worthwhile to have a bet. Co-mingling worldwide pools is the way to go.

The co-mingling of international pools. Imagine if the Chinese were able to bet into NZ tote pools. Would result in record turnover. I'm sure the technology exist, just not the will to work out the appropriate interational agreements. In the US, I am able to bet into the HK pools. Makes for some excellent betting opportunities. And then, there are those like me that would love the opportunity to bet into the NZ pools, but cannot. Our wagers here on NZ and OZ racing go into a central hub (I believe located at Woodbine racecourse in Toronto, but I could be wrong). In any event, the paultry amount to handle does not make it worthwhile to have a bet. Co-mingling worldwide pools is the way to go.

The co-mingling of international pools. Imagine if the Chinese were able to bet into NZ tote pools. Would result in record turnover. I'm sure the technology exist, just not the will to work out the appropriate interational agreements. In the US, I am able to bet into the HK pools. Makes for some excellent betting opportunities. And then, there are those like me that would love the opportunity to bet into the NZ pools, but cannot. Our wagers here on NZ and OZ racing go into a central hub (I believe located at Woodbine racecourse in Toronto, but I could be wrong). In any event, the paultry amount to handle does not make it worthwhile to have a bet. Co-mingling worldwide pools is the way to go.

Agree. Today (8/17), at Fairmount Park (Fanduel Horse Racing) has 2 races with 4 horses and 2 races with 5 horses. There is a horse shortage in the US and to make it worse, too many tracks are running.

I was at the 2011 race when Tiumen completed his hat-trick. Getting back to Aintree and the English Grand National. I attended the 1984 race (winner Hallo Dandy). I was living in Scotland at the time and on a whim, drove down to Liverpool that morning to attend the race. Back then you could walk the course (at least the area in front of the stands) prior to racing. Got to see "The Chair" up close, wish I had pictures of it. Yeah, the fences were much different back then, much stiffer. And the core of the fence at Beachers Brook was diabolical. Quite a crowd that day, we were packed in like sardines, but still had decent viewing from the stands. I had 40 quid each was on Lucky Vane at 16-1, who fortunately got up for 4th a few jumps from the line. It was great to have the opportunity to attend and experience "the National" first hand.

I've been to Pardubice for the Velka Pardubika. The 4th obstacle, the Taxis, is a beast. Good thing they only jump it once and early in the race. It always claims a couple of horses. I walked the course a couple of days after the race and stood in the ditch on the landing side of the Taxis fence. I felt like a dwarf. I've attached the photo, by the way, I've 5'10" (178 centimeters).

RR - You got me curious about this, so I had to look it up. The Yarmouth "Tart" was bred in the France, trained by James Fanshawe, returning 15/8. The Sandown "Tart" was bred in the UK, trained by R F Johnson Houghton, returning 11/2. Both were 3 year olds.

Check out this video from Sandow Park (UK). Guess the grounds crew miss that one. The video is halfway down in the article: https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2016/09/09/golf-ball-interrupts-horse-race-hits-jockey-in-helmet/ .

That's good news for the track. I realize that racing under the lights at Avondale didn't work out, but it has at Cranbourne, Moonee Valley, and Pakenham. When the time comes, perhaps they can model after those racecourses who have had success with evening racing.

Yeah to echo Red Rum, Geelong's last race on their synthetic track (ThoroughTrack) was in September of 2018. This from an article in the Herald Sun - Geelong Racing Club chief executive Daniel Salter said it was a disappointing result but he was hoping that they will be able to hold four to six meetings a year on a new inner grass track, which would replace the synthetic track. From what I gather, they had trouble with the base/drainage (sounds like the same problem they had a Santa Anita).

Classic case supporting the need for an alternative, synthetic surface. Geelong also abandoned due to the state of the track (Wangaratta the same yesterday). They must has received a lot of rain in Victoria. With Pakenham having lights, they had time to transfer the meeting. Hopefully, the powers that be will have the presence of mind to add lights to Cambridge. Wondering if that is in the works.

Very well said Liz. Sounds like you were never going to get a proper answer. As for Polytrack being based in Australia, there is limited evidence of that. The corporate office for Polytrack is in the UK, where it was developed. They have an office in the US and I guess now in Australia. As for Australian tracks using Polytrack, only two have it as a racing surface. Pakenham (installed 2015) and they were having trouble with it as early as 2019; and Ballarat (installed 2019). Perhaps, it has widespread use as a training surface, but I could only find it being used at Randwick and Caulfield. I hope NZ Racing doesn't regret the decision opting for Polytrack. You only have one chance to make a first impression. I applaud the move to put down a synthetic track for racing and I guess that one would also be placed on the South Island. They do serve a purpose and in the case of Tapeta is extremely safe and beneficial to racing overall. There will always be those synthetic surface detractors, but they will adapt to it in time.

Wonder why they went with Polytrack instead of Tapeta. Much of what I read and my experience owning a Tapeta specialist, leads to the conclusion that Tapeta is best of all the synthetic surfaces. Woodbine (Canada) and Wolverhampton (UK) have switched and Turfway Park (USA) is switching from Polytrack to Tapeta. The latest synthetic track built in the UK, Newcastle, has also opted for Tapeta. Devonport in Tasmania also has a Tapeta surface. Polytrack is adequate, but is inferior to Tapeta. Doesn't make sense to me. If NZ Racing is going to experiement with a synthetic surface, why not put down the best on offer. Perhaps, it was a budget/cost issue. If anyone knows, I would be curious to hear what went into the thought process.

Not to worry HS, none taken and I did work the handle/turnover bit towards the end. Boy, do we ever need co-mingled/world pools, as many here and there have expressed. Such a no-brainer, if they can work it out for Hong Kong, why not OZ/NZ or anywhere else in the world. There is interest in racing overseas here in the US. COVID-19 has been a curse for most of our racecourses, but a blessing for others. Fonner Park is truly towards the bottom rung of tracks here in the US (albeit still a nice day to spend an afternoon), but they have been able to sieze on this opportunity with the other tracks not racing. Their turnover is 5x its normal and have taken advantage of running mid-week leaving the Fri-Sun days for the big boys (Gulfstream, Oaklawn, Golden Gate, and Tampa Bay). Personally, I'm thrilled for the success of this small player and I hope it will strengthen and attract more interest in their product. I don't know enough about NZTAB and their operation to comment one way or the other. Though, by reading many of the posts on this forum, they don't seem to be too popular. What I can speak about is the awesome time I had when I visited 12 Kiwi racecourses in 2018 and how well I was treated at each one. I greatly look forward to the time when I can return for another visit. Just out of curiousity, are you able/permitted to set up an online account with any of our ADW sites (Twinspires, TVG, BetAmerica, XpressBet)? For my part, I am not permitted by US law (enforced by NZ) to open a NZTAB account. So for now, co-mingling would be my best hope, but I won't be holding my breath anytime soon.

Ouch, for a Yank, that hurts. At least, some jurisdictions are still running. I've been to the track in Nebraska that you are referring to, Fonner Park. It's a fun little 5/8ths mile track with its own little idiosyncrasies, much like Aussie country/bush racing. As for no form, you are misinformed. All you need to do is go to https://www.drf.com/ and purchase the form. Attached is the form from last Wednesday. As for the pools being small, again, you are incorrect. Here is a comparison of Fonner Park last year versus this year: Mar 24, 2019 - $279,577; Mar 25, 2020 - $1,643,825. This was all-source handle, each day ran 8 races. So minus the Pick 5 pool, each race had around $180,000 in WPS, Exacta, Trifecta, Superfecta, Pick 3, Pick 4 pools. Hardly small pools. People are definately betting Fonner Park. Have a look at the pools for Gulfstream Park for yesterday (attached). I didn't feel like doing the math, but for the 14 races, I'm sure it is well over $20 million. You used Remington Park, which is currently running a quarter horse meeting. There is very little interest in quarter horse racing in general, so using them as an example was a poor one. So the problem is that you bet US racing into TAB pools in NZ. I run into the same problem when I bet NZ racing here, very little in the pools. One of these days, NZ and US racecourses will work out how to effectively co-mingle the pools like we do with Hong Kong. Until then neither product will be worth betting in to. FWIW - I still greatly enjoy tuning into and watching Kiwi racing. To all down under, stay safe and healthy. Cheers. FONNER, 03-25-20.pdf GP, 03-28-20.pdf

TT - So true and it has saved/enhanced racing in all of the states that have implemented casino/electronic gaming. Purses and breeeder awards have increased signnificantly. One of the more recent success stories come from Wyoming, one of our smaller racing states. Have a look at this article: https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/wyoming-breeders-program-awards-1-7-million-incentives-2017/ . Please note, all of this revenue was generated using "Historic Racing Terminals". Imagine the revenue that is being generated by racecourses having a full service casino (table games, slots, other electronic gaming, sports books). The racecourse that I cut my teeth on, Penn National, was dead on its arse until casino gaming was authorized at racecourses in Pennsylvania. Speaking for myself, I was moved in the direction of ownership because of increased purses at "racinos". I was a bit strategic in purchasing a horse who did well on Tapeta. My target was to run at a racecourse that had elevated purses from casino revenue; in addition to having Tapeta. That racetrack was Presque Isle Downs (PID) in Pennsylvania. PID did not even exist until the racecourse/casino inititive was approved in Pennsylvania. I claimed a horse (for $10K) out of a race at Hollywood Park (Cushion), but had previously done very well at Golden Gate (Tapeta). We shipped him east to PID, prepared him on grass, then campaigned him on the Tapeta. He then won a race valued at $31K and was placed in races for $24K, $41K and $51K. The races he was winning in California were only worth $8K-$11K at GG and $18K at HOL. Owners have benefitted greatly from racecourses that have casino revenue driven purses. Of course, without folks getting involved in ownership, there would be no racing. During my visit to NZ in 2018, I had the wonderful opportunity to visit 12 racecourses. Unfortunately, I was unable to make it to Riccarton (or any of the South Island racecourses, which means I'll be back for subsequent visits; just quit closing racecourses ). In most of my visits, I spoke with racecourse reps and spoke about the sustainability of racing in NZ, noting the overwhelming success of US/Canada racecourses with full service casinos and to a lesser degree those with slots/electronic gaming. From other members of this forum, it appears that Riccarton could be primed for this type of transition. If handled properly, it's something that could be implemented at the racecourses where there is a population base that could support it. It really could be a Win-Win for the NZ government and the NZ Horse Racing Industry.

Yes, Santa Anita might easily have the most picturesque backdrop of any racecourse in the world. Hialeah hasn't had an offical quarter horse (QH) meet since 2016. They ran an unsanctioned QH meet in 2017. The owner signed a purse contract with a horsemen's group closely associated with the track. Those races featured two horses starting from pens and running under Western saddles. Don't think there has been any racing since then. Currently, it's used as a similcasting facility, poker rooms, electronic gaming and events center. Don't think it will ever close or be raised as it is listed on our National Register of Historical Places. Hialeah's demise came about by getting into a pissing contest with Gulfstream Park over the choice winter racing dates. With Hialeah being located in economically depressed central Miami versus Hollywood Park in the affluent area in Hallendale Beach; it wasn't a close call as to who was going to win. Which is sad because Hiaeah Park is a timeless beauty. Definitely a racecourse from another era that still has the potential to be revived. We keep hoping for a time when the two racecourse owners can work out an arrangement whereby both tracks can co-exist. I still have wonderful memories of my visit over 30 years ago.

Best to you RR - California as a state is a "freak show". Now that Santa Anita is off, the press and other anti-racing entities/fanatics are hammering Del Mar, who has had a rash of early meet fatalities. Not going to deal with the general topic of horse fatalities here, as that can be it's own topic/thread all unto itself. I don't believe we will ever see racing in California shutdown. It has too great of an economic impact and while attendance at the city racecourses may be sparse at times, California still has a very popular, well attended fair circuit (short meetings in Ferndale, Fresno, Los Alamitos, Pleasanton, Sacramento, and Santa Rosa). Santa Anita (SA) and Del Mar (DMR) are two of the most beautiful, scenic racecourses in the world. Both are racecourse gems and the racing is first-class. Focusing on racecourse fatalities only, Golden Gate (GG), in the San Francisco area, is rarely talked about because their fatality rate is very low (vs. SA and DMR). The reason is their main track surface is Tapeta, not dirt. I'm a firm believer that a dirt track can be as safe as grass or synthetic track. It's all down to the base, composition, and maintenance. Unfortunately, that isn't bearing itself out at either SA or DMR. There was a time when SA, DMR, GG, and the now shuttered Hollywood Park were mandated to use a synthetic surface. Only GG has prevailed with a synthetic (Tapeta). The other synthetic surfaces used in southern California did not have as great an impact on reducing equine fatalities and were allowed to return to dirt. Also, the trainers in southern California had an adverse experience with the synthetics used (Del Mar used Polytrack, San Anita used Cushion then Pro-RIde, and Hollywood Park used Cushion). Concerning SA, I believe that they may be mandated to go back to a synthetic main track. If so, the obvious choice for this would be the latest version of Tapeta, Tapeta 10. The success rate in reducing racecourse fatalities with tracks using Tapeta 10 have been excellent. Though, for SA to have a successful transition, the base of the track would have to be completely removed. They really would have to start from scratch; removing the dirt and base, then totally reconstruct the track. As an American, who grew up in Pennsylvania and currently lives in Florida; I have had the opportunity to visit California on many occasions and loved all of my visits. I've been to all of the existing racecourses and those that have closed. However, it has been over 5 years since my last visit and would not even consider going back due to the social and political atmosphere that currently exist. California has well and truly "gone off the rails". My hope is that thoroughbred racing doesn't follow suit.

RR - Actually, they just opened Century Mile in Edmonton this year. Century Downs (Calgary) opened in 2017. I had the opportunity to visit both a few months ago. Mile was prepared using the same template as Downs, though Mile's track is larger than Downs (1600 meters vs 1100 meters). The viewing area, dining area, and casino (electronic gaming, ex. slots) were basically the same. In talking with those associated with the tracks, it appears to be a very successful model and has revived racing in Alberta.

For those who still have an interest: https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/west-to-appeal-dismissal-of-derby-dq-lawsuit/?fbclid=IwAR0C2qE5N1gOO3FsqDFdmhoO6vneJAnyoFL_TT7xqBQZ8MFfP_JCk_EdFzU#.XdLipPFHIK4.twitter

And the litigation begins: https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/horses/kentucky-derby/2019/05/15/kentucky-derby-lawsuit-maximum-security-owners-sue-over-disqualification/3673250002/ . Will continue to keep all of you up to date.

The latest is that Luis Saez was given a 15 day suspension, see link: https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/233636/jockey-luis-saez-suspended-15-days-for-derby-infraction . This would come as no surprise, since the CD stewards DQ'ed Maximum Security. They "had" to do this to support their decision. Saez will be appealing the decision. Hopefully, in doing so the stewards/Kentucky Horse Racing Commission will view the video that exonerates him. I continue to struggle to see how the "powers that be" cannot see that Tyler Gafflione (rider of #1, War of Will) was the cause of the contact by hitting Maximum Security's hind legs when attempting to go around. As for the owner's, reports are that they will be proceeding with legal action. Personally, I hope they are successful.

Back on topic - In the video that I mentioned, link: https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/Watch_New_video_key_to_Maximum_Security_s_Kentucky_Derby_appeal_123 , where the owner of Maximum Security claims that War of Will came off his true line and clipped the back legs of Maximum Security. There is now an article (interview with Jason Servis, trainer of Maximum Security), link: https://www.app.com/story/sports/horses/2019/05/08/servis-still-furious-maximum-security-dq-kentucky-derby/1139284001/ where Servis states that Maximum Security has cuts on his hind two legs from the race. The question is were those cuts a result of War of Will coming out and clipping Maximum Security or did they result in the subsequent contact. Looks like Maximum Security's connections have a case. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.