Sign in to follow this  
Fartoomuch

Sales Time

91 posts in this topic

Tasman man should be listened to.has been in a million horses.things have changed in the last 20 years but harness racing seems to gave stayed in a time warp.u buy a cheapie from 's island u know they won't be champions.yearlings u are buying a dream.most time it is a failed dream but it doesn't have to be a nightmare.there are plenty of things clubs trainers can do to make it fun. Most times clubs give owners nil. A 2 dollar pre race beer don't cut it. It's not for me to decide how to accommodate owners clubs have committes and staff to do that. But they have taken there eye off the ball and we see the results.I remember doing fund raising for amateurs giving dual sulky rides on a Sunday. It was huge.clubs could invite owners to do things like this.there are a million things u can do at club level.designate a board member to do it.they are paid.owning a horse is unlikely to realise a profit  but neither does owning a boat.it's has to be fun.like going fishing and catching no fish don't mean u can't have a good day.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Tasman, yes he was but was he actually training them or other trainers?

The ones he has been racing in recent years successfully have been cheapies passed their best!

Hi Brodie

I think Tim would have had his horses trained for him earlier on, but is now able to have time to have some fun, and help older horses regain that winning feeling again.  Given that, he is a very smart man, who if he had a promising young horse in his stable, would probably give it to a trainer more able to set /top a horse off for big races.

Cheers.

Robert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Shad said:

Was surprised that the half brother to ultimate machete go for a bargin price, i personally thought he would top the sale, who would want to breed horses.

Not sure that $57k was a "bargain" ..... yearling was the mare's 7th foal and she has produced just the 2 winners (albeit two good ones) to date - he'll definitely get his chance in Barry's barn in any case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Shad said:

Was surprised that the half brother to ultimate machete go for a bargin price, i personally thought he would top the sale, who would want to breed horses.

I have a filly that I thought about selling in the sales, good mare and good Stallion, but not a Bettors or a Mach, or similar, a new kid on the block so to speak, this  sale for the breeders is a bloodbath with a few exceptions, the costs involved getting here are not cheap and Art Majors are selling for service fees or not much more,  Why bother, I will never get my mare served again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the feedback, and fair points raised, i guess you just never know on the day. Good luck with your filly one more lap, hope you have ago with her yourself, better than giving her away for a poor price, out of curiosity, what would it cost to get one to the sales.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Shad said:

Thanks for the feedback, and fair points raised, i guess you just never know on the day. Good luck with your filly one more lap, hope you have ago with her yourself, better than giving her away for a poor price, out of curiosity, what would it cost to get one to the sales.

I will now turn her into a race horse for sale as I will with her sister, the stakes now are on decline so just to balance the books is becoming far to hard, for instance, I had a winner of a few races a while ago, one race he won four years ago, we got 7500, the same race this year, the winner got 4800, I rest my case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
1 hour ago, tim vince said:

Tasman man should be listened to.has been in a million horses.things have changed in the last 20 years but harness racing seems to gave stayed in a time warp.u buy a cheapie from 's island u know they won't be champions.yearlings u are buying a dream.most time it is a failed dream but it doesn't have to be a nightmare.there are plenty of things clubs trainers can do to make it fun. Most times clubs give owners nil. A 2 dollar pre race beer don't cut it. It's not for me to decide how to accommodate owners clubs have committes and staff to do that. But they have taken there eye off the ball and we see the results.I remember doing fund raising for amateurs giving dual sulky rides on a Sunday. It was huge.clubs could invite owners to do things like this.there are a million things u can do at club level.designate a board member to do it.they are paid.owning a horse is unlikely to realise a profit  but neither does owning a boat.it's has to be fun.like going fishing and catching no fish don't mean u can't have a good day.

 

Tim, were you being facetious in regards to Taman Man being in a lot of horses? Think you probably were.

Have you trained many young horses over the years?

Did you use  to have shares in horses trained by Big Baz?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had heaps with mark Tony.1 at Barry's.ihave 8 2 or 3 year olds.learning the game still but have good help and always ask Barry Tony Robert Dunn mango jac MacKinnon and others for advice .Steven Reid another.dont mind sending them to those guys if I have trouble

U have to remember these guys are great trainers I'm not in their league.but 8ts about having access to smart people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
53 minutes ago, tim vince said:

Had heaps with mark Tony.1 at Barry's.ihave 8 2 or 3 year olds.learning the game still but have good help and always ask Barry Tony Robert Dunn mango jac MacKinnon and others for advice .Steven Reid another.dont mind sending them to those guys if I have trouble

U have to remember these guys are great trainers I'm not in their league.but 8ts about having access to smart people.

Tim, think you are understating your acheivements and results in recent seasons.

Your record with horses last their best would be every bit as good as any other trainer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a real skill to getting best out of young horses.learning but ain' a natural.the older horses almost always respond to a change of regime if they gave had ability in the past.heat work is my speciality. A very smart man said u can' get them to exceed their previous ability but u can often get them back to it.also older horses need more vet work so not economical but no one makes me do it.better off with a boat but hate fishing and get sea sick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have to give credit Mick with his comments about the sales and lack of new owners etc on the Box Seat. For all his analysis of the game and sales in general you would have thought he might have bought one himself. Maybe he did but through another name. That said a M Gurein that paid 240K for a horse at Karaka TB sale in January. His call, of course if it was Box Seat Mick and hes not alone 2 vendors i spoke to at sales were going the same way. No more SB's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

You have to give credit Mick with his comments about the sales and lack of new owners etc on the Box Seat. For all his analysis of the game and sales in general you would have thought he might have bought one himself. Maybe he did but through another name. That said a M Gurein that paid 240K for a horse at Karaka TB sale in January. His call, of course if it was Box Seat Mick and hes not alone 2 vendors i spoke to at sales were going the same way. No more SB's.

He does own that nice 3yo O'Reilly colt Abrahams trained by Tony Pike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 14 February 2018 at 6:09 PM, Shad said:

Was surprised that the half brother to ultimate machete go for a bargin price, i personally thought he would top the sale, who would want to breed horses.

He was a lovely colt but from memory was very big, much like UM.  Most of the money comes for those that have the page and type to make natural 2yos.  

On 15 February 2018 at 7:44 PM, Fartoomuch said:

You have to give credit Mick with his comments about the sales and lack of new owners etc on the Box Seat. 

We are young (ish) owners but decided against buying any at the sales this year.  Main reasons - we don't feel there's a level playing field for all participants and a number of key administrators appear more interested in furthering their own interests than doing what's best for the future of the game.  We'll focus on current horses and watch on with interest, but there will need to be changes before we buy or breed again.  Hard to bring friends on the journey in the current environment - they think we're mad and probably right! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 14/02/2018 at 6:51 PM, Shad said:

Thanks for the feedback, and fair points raised, i guess you just never know on the day. Good luck with your filly one more lap, hope you have ago with her yourself, better than giving her away for a poor price, out of curiosity, what would it cost to get one to the sales.

Nevele R advertised their preparation price was $2000 but I have no idea exactly what that covers. Also PGG get a percentage of Sales priceand vender pays $350 plus GST towards Sales Series Race nominations. Also transportation to sales would be another expense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We bought 10 I think at a range of prices  i wasnt there but the report was that many of the well bred ones had twisted legs and thats not something buyers are willing to risk. 

We bring most of ours back to Australia. There aren't races for them in nz; we don't want our 2 year olds racing 5 year olds and if they are any good, they get handicapped out of the race anyway. It feels lile they race 5 times a season and spend the rest of their time eating money in the agistment paddock in NZ between the big races. We can race them in WA every week against their own age group and sex for  $7k and once a month for $18k. And while there aren't the classics in WA that there are in NZ, there also aren't the All Stars to compete against. No matter how good our horse is, they somehow have one thats the best they've ever had and all we can achieve is a placing. That's coming from an owner. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
22 hours ago, KTQ said:

We bought 10 I think at a range of prices  i wasnt there but the report was that many of the well bred ones had twisted legs and thats not something buyers are willing to risk. 

We bring most of ours back to Australia. There aren't races for them in nz; we don't want our 2 year olds racing 5 year olds and if they are any good, they get handicapped out of the race anyway. It feels lile they race 5 times a season and spend the rest of their time eating money in the agistment paddock in NZ between the big races. We can race them in WA every week against their own age group and sex for  $7k and once a month for $18k. And while there aren't the classics in WA that there are in NZ, there also aren't the All Stars to compete against. No matter how good our horse is, they somehow have one thats the best they've ever had and all we can achieve is a placing. That's coming from an owner. 

Fair comments, I would have thought!

Going forward we are going to become short of owners and that means less horses being bred obviously.

Yes, the dominance of all the elite group races by one stable is not good for harness racing in NZ.

Yes you can go orgasmic watching them clean up every group race but without the new owners there won’t be racing and without the races there won’t be the punters!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Fair comments, I would have thought!

Going forward we are going to become short of owners and that means less horses being bred obviously.

Yes, the dominance of all the elite group races by one stable is not good for harness racing in NZ.

Yes you can go orgasmic watching them clean up every group race but without the new owners there won’t be racing and without the races there won’t be the punters!

I'm interested in this debate, Brodie. Have you got some statistics to back up that we losing owners? 

I am hearing more and more trainers say that their horses is owned by a group of first time owners or that most of the people in that syndicate have never owned a horse before etc etc. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Counter Punch said:

I'm interested in this debate, Brodie. Have you got some statistics to back up that we losing owners? 

I am hearing more and more trainers say that their horses is owned by a group of first time owners or that most of the people in that syndicate have never owned a horse before etc etc. 

 

Mark and Nat seem to be getting new owners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my own experience of our Syndicate, who buys at least one yearling at the sales each year, I can share that our Syndicate members make up varies from year to year. Some new members have been added this year, and others have decided not too for this year.  Each year has its own Syndicate registered.

I like being part of this wonderful sport, and my discretionary spending in horse ownership is my wee treat for myself, in my retirement.

Cheers.

Robert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said:

Nice one Robert, I think you are a big hope on Friday night

Thanks Flaggy. I am sure he will give a good account of himself. He has grown and developed a bit during his break.

Cheers.

Robert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
2 hours ago, Counter Punch said:

I'm interested in this debate, Brodie. Have you got some statistics to back up that we losing owners? 

I am hearing more and more trainers say that their horses is owned by a group of first time owners or that most of the people in that syndicate have never owned a horse before etc etc. 

 

Hi CounterPunch, good to have you on!

Spoke with 2 well known trainers at the Addington yearling sales.

Both of them stated how difficult it was to make money out of training and both had to turn horses over to even make a poor living.

Both stated that the fact that the domination of one stable has a helluva detrimental affect on their operation and the ability to attract and even retain owners.

One told me the number of horses he has previously had trained but was now down to a much smaller number which he did tell me!

He also said that if things stayed the same over the next year then he would be needing to get another job.

I think if HRNZ actually polled,all the Canterbury trainers as to whether they were down on no. Of owners to what they used to have and also the domination factor, I know you will find that ai am right!

Yes Of course there are the new owners that Westview has brought into the game but this is a rarity, and is being done by Westview for no profit to him, and the outlay was extremely minimal.

You only need to look at the crowd at the race courses nowadays and it is the same patrons week in and week out!

Auckland Harness is clearly having trouble enticing horses to race there even though there stakes are so much higher, but training costs are so much higher.

It would be great if Harness could entice plenty of new owners into the game, and I will admit that I am wrong (choke) if I am wrong!

What I know is from what I have been told by many owners and trainers and drivers, what I can Blatantly see is happening and actions from other bodies involved in harness in NZ.

One of the positives is the no. of female stablehands and junior drivers that are currently around.

Without them many of the junior driver races in the South Island would only have small fields.

The other noticeable thing is that more so than ever, there does not seem to be the no. Of sons and daughters of known racing names coming thru like they used to.

There have been many talented junior reinsman that have left the industry either fully or almost fully in the last few years, eg. Michael Hay,   Graham Ward etc.

Syndicates are the only way of the future CounterPunch as the young ones are not being enticed to invest and also most have not got enough surplus cash to be shelling out in excess of 2k for training every month.

If you can prove me wrong then I would be suitably impressed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this