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Guest 2Admin2
4 hours ago, Insider said:

The Bill in its current format has too many flaws in it to pass at the moment. 

Be patient or we will end up with a dog like the current Racing Act. 

The Bill is fundamentally flawed because the premise on which it is made is fundamentally flawed.

If no one wants your overpriced low quality product no amount of legislative protection will save it.

John Allen your days are numbered.

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1 hour ago, 2Admin2 said:

John Allen your days are numbered.

... maybe so but I'm struggling to be optimistic about that prospect.  

My jaded eyes can only see him exiting "to spend more time with his family" or "to take up a new challenge" - and board members lauding him for "leaving the industry in good heart" ... ra ra ra

And then in comes another million dollar man (unlikely to be a woman with this lot) with little understanding of - or passion for racing.

The board will remain fat, satisfied and smug - with no sense of responsbility, altruism or obligation to the real participants of racing. 

And as the ship goes down the band will play on .... 

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Guest 2Admin2

I don't understand the rationale behind "protecting our NZ Intellectual Property (IP)" - a concept which seems to underpin the Race Fields Legislation.  As far as I can see by the normal definition of IP we don't have any or at the very least anything of value.  IP is based on property that is unique.  What is unique about NZ Racing?  We don't don't have anything that is any different to any other racing jurisdiction which produce a product for people to gamble on.  We do produce one that is arguably inferior in terms of quality and one that is comparatively over priced.

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40 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

I don't understand the rationale behind "protecting our NZ Intellectual Property (IP)" - a concept which seems to underpin the Race Fields Legislation.  As far as I can see by the normal definition of IP we don't have any or at the very least anything of value.  IP is based on property that is unique.  What is unique about NZ Racing?  We don't don't have anything that is any different to any other racing jurisdiction which produce a product for people to gamble on.  We do produce one that is arguably inferior in terms of quality and one that is comparatively over priced.

The racecards are the IP.

The whole thing seems both a reasonable step and reasonably futile. As admitted in the policy statement, is "The charges will rely to a great extent on voluntary compliance from offshore betting operators."

This bill is about carefully arranging a mosaic of striped deckchairs into a giant 'everything is fine on here' that can be read from the top of any looming iceberg.

 

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Guest 2Admin2

I don't agree that the racecards are IP.   Charging for access to them is this information age is akin to charging entry to a supermarket or akin to charging for information on a pound of butter.

A NZ racecard is no different from any other jurisdictions racecard.  It provide information on our product.  That information unfortunately only makes obvious the fact that our product is by competitive comparison high priced and of inferior quality.

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4 hours ago, 2Admin2 said:

The Bill is fundamentally flawed because the premise on which it is made is fundamentally flawed.

If no one wants your overpriced low quality product no amount of legislative protection will save it.

John Allen your days are numbered.

I do tend to agree with this. As I understand it our potential saviour is going to be the ability to "sell" our racing product to overseas markets. Unfortunately people don't seem to factor in that our product is largely second rate and unattractive to overseas markets who can access racing from all around the world. Once punters overseas realise that our form is almost impossible to follow with any confidence they will quickly abandon the novelty of betting on NZ Racing.

Our only advantage really is going to be the possibility to find a time slot niche so we appeal to punters somewhere needing an instant fix, so we are pretty much the equivalant of a Gundagai but in a vacant time slot. On that subject I do wonder what this Auckland idea of running twilight meetings like last Saturday does for overall turnover. It may attract some people on course for parties, but I can't see it doing much for off course turnover as it clashes head-on with premier racing from Australia in that time slot. I may be quite wrong of course as I have no idea what their turnover was like.

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You make sure the legislation states that it is a criminal offense to either:

1. Accept a bet on NZ content when you haven't entered into a usage license; or

2. You accept a bet from a New Zealander when you haven't signed a usage license; and

3. You are a New Zealander who places a bet with an offshore betting operator who doesn't have a usage license with the NZ authority

All bets can be tracked and audited through the banking systems.

As for block chain, this is the death knell for the current fixed odds betting platform's financial success. The only thing the RIB can do is now make a block chain version. The first block chain betting options on the market are put together by technologists but it is only time before the consumer guys get the GUI right.

 

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Guest 2Admin2
9 minutes ago, Berri said:

You make sure the legislation states that it is a criminal offense to either:

1. Accept a bet on NZ content when you haven't entered into a usage license; or

2. You accept a bet from a New Zealander when you haven't signed a usage license; and

3. You are a New Zealander who places a bet with an offshore betting operator who doesn't have a usage license with the NZ authority

All bets can be tracked and audited through the banking systems.

As for block chain, this is the death knell for the current fixed odds betting platform's financial success. The only thing the RIB can do is now make a block chain version. The first block chain betting options on the market are put together by technologists but it is only time before the consumer guys get the GUI right.

 

So you are saying that legislation should be passed to stop a New Zealander betting with an offshore agency on NON NZ racing?  Of so protectionism at its worst!

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The Club system is stuffed. HK is run perfectly. The HK Govt gets $3.5billion in taxes per annum and charities benefit. The Integrity Unit is lethal (ask Muncey) and they protect their product. Meanwhile, we are racing on .3rd world tracks, run by volunteers, administered by part-timers and so on and so forth. There is no willingness to reform.

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41 minutes ago, Trump said:

The Club system is stuffed. HK is run perfectly. The HK Govt gets $3.5billion in taxes per annum and charities benefit. The Integrity Unit is lethal (ask Muncey) and they protect their product. Meanwhile, we are racing on .3rd world tracks, run by volunteers, administered by part-timers and so on and so forth. There is no willingness to reform.

It's a numbers game though Trumpy, and we can't hope to compete with theirs. Hong Kong population is what, 7-8 million ? On Cup night they had over 94,000 on course and turnover was a record at HK$1.6B...no wonder the tax take is good....:rolleyes:

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It's all smoke and mirrors. I contacted John Allen in July on behalf of a friend of mine who looks after the overseas (non-US) content of one of the biggest US facing off shore books in the world. Because of the TIME ZONE (the only reason btw anyone would want to offer NZ Racing) he is happy to pay a fee to legitimize their NZ content, He already has similar arrangements with many jurisdictions including the US and Jamaica and wants to set up a similar deal with the NZRB and to be honest he doesn't care about the impending legislation. Allen thanked me for my interest and said he would speak to relevant members of his team and get back to me. I'm still waiting. So there you have it. One of the biggest (I would guess top 20) companies in the world approached the NZRB (or whatever they are) about paying for NZ racing's precious "IP" (which it's not btw) and five months later they are still waiting for a response.

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It's a culture here in NZ Phantom, NZRB/NZTR are not Robinson Crusoe's. If what you're saying is correct, and I for one have no reason to doubt you, W Peters has enough ammunition with your statement to take Mr Allen to the racing minister........it beggars belief, but as there is no transparency or good governance here, then the answer is a pineapple.

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I can forward copies of the emails to Scooby or whoever for verification. But you're right, there is a culture of incompetence at every level of those organisations which has been allowed to go on unchecked for far too long. It's the codes themselves who are ultimately to blame, because they nominate these board members who continue the pattern of appointing outsiders with no racing or betting experience in key positions, from Hickton to Bayliss to Hughes and Allen. They've made their bed alright, and pissed away millions and millions of dollars on half baked ideas from Typhoon (well named at least) to Triple Trio to the newest false saviour Race Fields Legislation. Someone made a point in this thread that if you don't understand the key points about the Racing Act you can't criticise it. Well I do, and in fact I think most race cafers have a better understanding of most of the issues facing the codes than the people who are being paid to run them. Which is not good.

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Someone, regardless of political pursasion, someone who has a clear understanding of what's been happening and more importantly, what "hasn't" been happening, needs to sit down with the Minister for Racing, (with a bottle of 30yo Single Malt Glenlivet) and talk for a few hours. If nothing comes out of the discussion other than 2 inebriated people, then we will all know where the problem lays. The rot starts at the top and unless that's addressed then things will stay the same.

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1 hour ago, La Zip said:

It's a culture here in NZ Phantom, NZRB/NZTR are not Robinson Crusoe's. If what you're saying is correct, and I for one have no reason to doubt you, W Peters has enough ammunition with your statement to take Mr Allen to the racing minister........it beggars belief, but as there is no transparency or good governance here, then the answer is a pineapple.

"Take him to the Minister ?"...you do know who the Minister is..??

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1 hour ago, Trump said:

Someone, regardless of political pursasion, someone who has a clear understanding of what's been happening and more importantly, what "hasn't" been happening, needs to sit down with the Minister for Racing, (with a bottle of 30yo Single Malt Glenlivet) and talk for a few hours. If nothing comes out of the discussion other than 2 inebriated people, then we will all know where the problem lays. The rot starts at the top and unless that's addressed then things will stay the same.

I'm sure he has plenty of discussions with people who should know Trumpy, and been well oiled in the process. This Government has a few challenges on its plate and they are already struggling to find the dollars to pay for the promises and bribes. Where Racing will fit into the priorities in the overall scheme of things might be a bigger question. Fairly well down the track would be my guess.....:wacko:

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23 hours ago, 2Admin2 said:

So you are saying that legislation should be passed to stop a New Zealander betting with an offshore agency on NON NZ racing?  Of so protectionism at its worst!

It's not protectionist and it doesn't preclude an NZer from betting with an offshore betting site, but to be able to do so they need to be registered. Quite simple. If you make it criminal then the escalation can be managed. Otherwise the RIU or some other incompetent body will be pursuing international litigation for $50,000 fines....really smart...not 

As for PFP's notion to execute a block chain initiative, he's right on the mark. The FOB platform is dead before its started. I've been telling the RIB this for the last 18 months. Block chain has the potential to kill us if we don't react. There is no-one in the RIB who understands this or they wouldn't have started the FOB platform 

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18 hours ago, Trump said:

The Club system is stuffed. HK is run perfectly. The HK Govt gets $3.5billion in taxes per annum and charities benefit. The Integrity Unit is lethal (ask Muncey) and they protect their product. Meanwhile, we are racing on .3rd world tracks, run by volunteers, administered by part-timers and so on and so forth. There is no willingness to reform.

Needs to happen. Industry participants are still to silly to see it

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13 hours ago, MrBigStuff said:

Needs to happen. Industry participants are still to silly to see it

They all see it, but they all know that true reform would involve most if not all of the current mob losing their jobs if/when it happened. So instead, like snake oil merchants,  they invent apparent miracle cures which they somehow sell to the codes/industry to buy time. None of the current mob KNOW that race fields legislation or the new fixed odds betting platform is the real answer because they clearly aren't. But they don't have to, all they have to do is convince the idiots on the board that they are the answer to buy them a year or two more in their positions. Run, Seabiscuit, Run!!

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On 12/11/2017 at 3:02 PM, poundforpound said:

Exchange betting using a facilitator and block chain technology must be a grave concern to global racing jurisdictions.

How can you prepare for it, and capitalise on it though Berri ?

Does having so much hydroelectricity to drive the technology give us a global edge ?

Not Berri but have some experience here. Blockchain could bring some operational efficiencies. For example, when that technology has matured, automated KYC will be a quick win for a lot of companies (you have your digital identity and the TAB can see for example that a bank has pre-verified you so does not need to repeat that step) . An incumbent wagering near-monopoly does not scream out for blockchain or tokens though.

If the TAB should choose to reinvent itself as a peer to peer operation (taking a cut rather than making the market) then we can start talking. That is where the blockchain activity will be and competitors will come from, because making a peer to peer exchange and allowing users to frame markets themselves is actually something blockchain really lends itself to and will become very slick once someone fixes the big scaling problems. The scary doomsday scenario is that there will be competitors emerge that not only skirt any legislation, but are built by anonymous developers and used by users who can choose to remain anonymous too. If one of those takes off it will be a threat to existing revenue models of all codes around the world.

Thankfully, you need marketing to claim a lions share of any gambling market, and that is extremely hard to do without having some regular corporate entity. So I think we are safe from the doomsday scenario.

What imo the TAB should be doing is building partnerships with developers of betting applications on these new decentralised platforms (eg. Gnosis) so that they secure a piece of that future. They could try and develop it themselves but we all know where that is likely to end up.

The market will naturally migrate to platforms that offer a 102% liquid book as and when that happens, better to just keep that scenario onside as best you can.

 

Re hydro power, yes NZ could set up a crypto mining operation. Obviously the costs outside of raw power will be more than in China etc, could still be feasible (bear in mind China produces the mining kit needed too...). This is assuming it is excess supply. If bitcoin is still pumping in two years then state mining farms will become inevitable.

 

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