TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 Another example of the sort of halfwits we have running this industry. Reefton has a $10000 'governance' grant withheld by NZTR because it's financial statements were not audited by a CAANZ(Chartered Accountants institute) member. Never mind the fact that the bloke who did do it is totally (and I mean TOTALLY) competent to do the job. Anyway they did offer $2000 to 'assist with the Audit cost' so would you expect them to withhold the $2000? Not this lot. Now as we always do we would be using that lost money to boost stakes so it will be the owners,trainers and jockeys who will lose out in all this not the Club. It might not be a lot of money but I reiterate it will be the stakeholder who will DIRECTLY lose in all this. Unlike NZTR we will not be buying more pie warmers or blowing it on a trip to Dubai or somewhere, on legal fees for irrelevant crap or increasing already bloated salaries It would go straight into stakes. So sorry owners because Purcell Moncur and Co want to be petty you are going to miss out. THE TORCH 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonkatime 323 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said: Another example of the sort of halfwits we have running this industry. Reefton has a $10000 'governance' grant withheld by NZTR because it's financial statements were not audited by a CAANZ(Chartered Accountants institute) member. Never mind the fact that the bloke who did do it is totally (and I mean TOTALLY) competent to do the job. That's a fairly common requirement for grants in my experience. Is it a new requirement from them or did they not make it known at the time that one was required? shaneMcAlister 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, tonkatime said: That's a fairly common requirement for grants in my experience. Is it a new requirement from them or did they not make it known at the time that one was required? Whether it was notified or not is irrelevant. Bottom line is the stakeholder will pay. THE TORCH 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk 1,317 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 10 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said: Whether it was notified or not is irrelevant. Bottom line is the stakeholder will pay. Take them on at their own game. There's no rule a CANZ member has to be on location. Find one anywhere and do a contra deal. Holiday hospitality, naming rights etc etc Maybe outsource to Australia. Got to be a way around it.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,854 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 44 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said: Another example of the sort of halfwits we have running this industry. Reefton has a $10000 'governance' grant withheld by NZTR because it's financial statements were not audited by a CAANZ(Chartered Accountants institute) member. Never mind the fact that the bloke who did do it is totally (and I mean TOTALLY) competent to do the job. Anyway they did offer $2000 to 'assist with the Audit cost' so would you expect them to withhold the $2000? Not this lot. Now as we always do we would be using that lost money to boost stakes so it will be the owners,trainers and jockeys who will lose out in all this not the Club. It might not be a lot of money but I reiterate it will be the stakeholder who will DIRECTLY lose in all this. Unlike NZTR we will not be buying more pie warmers or blowing it on a trip to Dubai or somewhere, on legal fees for irrelevant crap or increasing already bloated salaries It would go straight into stakes. So sorry owners because Purcell Moncur and Co want to be petty you are going to miss out. Your bloke not a CAANZ Member Tom...?? Hopefully they get someone in there with some common sense... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen 3,226 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 21 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said: Whether it was notified or not is irrelevant. Bottom line is the stakeholder will pay. the only stake holder they are concerned with is spelt steak holder TOM(the other Molloy) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ohokaman said: Your bloke not a CAANZ Member Tom...?? Hopefully they get someone in there with some common sense... No he is not (and he has now resigned anyway sickened by this BS). I am a Member but I no longer audit, would not be able to anyway due to my position in the Club and strongly object to paying someone $4500 for a $500 job. I started out as the Club Auditor then became Secretary, Committeeman, Treasurer, VP and now President Much as I doubt the standard of the local CAANZ people who offer audit services I would have organised it but the Secretary did not advise the little gem of info that not doing it would cost $10k till after the audit was complete and I wasn't wasting time and money getting the job done again It is probably Moncur's payback for the shitty constitution email I sent him but if that is all he has to worry about he should be shown the road like Purcell clearly was Midget, gubellini, Huey and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,425 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 48 minutes ago, tonkatime said: That's a fairly common requirement for grants in my experience. Is it a new requirement from them or did they not make it known at the time that one was required? Totally agree that the accounts should be audited for a grant regardless of how component the person compiling them is. Many times it is the component people that need the most auditing :-) THE TORCH 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, shaneMcAlister said: Totally agree that the accounts should be audited for a grant regardless of how component the person compiling them is. Many times it is the component people that need the most auditing :-) It is not a grant it is just a payment NZTR makes to clubs called a grant. Just bullshit they carry on with. A the end of the day it is the stakeholders money they are playing with not their own Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 21 minutes ago, shaneMcAlister said: Totally agree that the accounts should be audited for a grant regardless of how component the person compiling them is. Many times it is the component people that need the most auditing :-) 'component'? And who is talking about the person who compiled them? For all you know it could have been me myself and I would have forgotten more about accounting than the whole of those NZTR mob combined. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmy Panther 2 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 29 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said: 'component'? And who is talking about the person who compiled them? For all you know it could have been me myself and I would have forgotten more about accounting than the whole of those NZTR mob combined. Thats the reason why you should have got a CAANZ member to audit them, who are you to say an unregistered member is TOTALLY competent. Just suck it up and get a CAANZ member to audit it, you'll add 5k minimum to the bottom line (if as you says it will cost 5k to get the audit done) and that can go to stakeholders... which hasn't been the case in the past tonkatime 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Palmy Panther said: Thats the reason why you should have got a CAANZ member to audit them, who are you to say an unregistered member is TOTALLY competent. Just suck it up and get a CAANZ member to audit it, you'll add 5k minimum to the bottom line (if as you says it will cost 5k to get the audit done) and that can go to stakeholders... which hasn't been the case in the past What the hell are you talking about? As I said I could have prepared them myself(and I have been a CAANZ member for 30 years this year so don't start telling me anything about what I should and shouldn't do) What makes you think CAANZ Membership is any guarantee of competence? It is outfits like CAANZ who created this accounting standards mess mainly because its members had a shockingly bad habit of sticking their hands in the till. The guy who audited them is a bloody sight more diligent that 90% of the CAANZ members I know(most of whom know all about what is wrong with your business but have no idea what is wrong with their own) Anyway none of that is the point. The financial statements are audited and have always been accepted in the past. All this petty attitude is doing is costing the owners/stakeholders money and that makes me sick. Might buy a couple of those Petone leeches first class airfares to the championships I suppose Belinda, THE TORCH and ADM 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmy Panther 2 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 10 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said: The financial statements are audited and have always been accepted in the past. All this petty attitude is doing is costing the owners/stakeholders money and that makes me sick. i would suggest that your petty attitude is costing the stakeholders money. i tend to agree with you on most of your postings about constitutions and leadership at NZTR but digging your toes in and not getting them audited by CAANZ is lowering the pool of money for reefton stakeholders. yes they may have been audited and accepted in the past, but in the past was there a 10K goverance grant ? no there wasn't there is no guarantees of competence, but just as i would personally get a registered master builder to build my house, a barrister/solicitor of the high court to be my lawyer, id get a CAANZ to audit my accounts, it gives me a greater sense of security around their profession and an avenue if there are issues around their competence Pam Robson 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauhei Notts 1,413 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 Tom's obstinacy in the face of totally ridiculous auditing costs is to be applauded. The Cambridge Trotting Club's 2016 accounts were a meaningless mish mash of incomprehensible rubbish that took up about 36 pages. All this so that somebody in Lincoln Road, Chch could tick the box. God knows how many tens of thousands that cost. Money that would have been better spent boosting stakes. The External Reporting Board which is the outfit that sets the silly accounting standards, have now made things so totally complex that the reports presented to members are beyond the comprehension of anybody but those who have had many years experience in the accounting world. And a good number of beancounters cannot fathom them out. One club that I have been a member of for the past 44 years put so much attention into their mish mash of mumbo jumbo, that, and I am not joking here, they forgot to put the expensive auditor's report in their annual report. And I was the only person who noticed it. Tom's clients are lucky to have an accountant with his perspicacity. There's not many accountants like him left. THE TORCH, Belinda, Huey and 2 others 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen 3,226 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 it's accrual world tonkatime, TOM(the other Molloy), hedley and 4 others 7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 35 minutes ago, Palmy Panther said: i would suggest that your petty attitude is costing the stakeholders money. i tend to agree with you on most of your postings about constitutions and leadership at NZTR but digging your toes in and not getting them audited by CAANZ is lowering the pool of money for reefton stakeholders. yes they may have been audited and accepted in the past, but in the past was there a 10K goverance grant ? no there wasn't there is no guarantees of competence, but just as i would personally get a registered master builder to build my house, a barrister/solicitor of the high court to be my lawyer, id get a CAANZ to audit my accounts, it gives me a greater sense of security around their profession and an avenue if there are issues around their competence What crap! Shortly after I became a member of the Institute a bloke (who I had met previously) Geoff Chapman became the President of the outfit(NZICA as it was then). After his term was over he took on the job of Controller and Auditor General(the number one Auditor in NZ). Now on the face of it one would expect the Office of the C & AG to be a 'show home' of internal controls and security in regards its systems and controls. Lo and behold however Geoffrey got around that and didn't just have his hands in the till - I think he was in up to his armpits. His next job was as prison librarian I think. The bloke who presented me with my Membership(he shall remain nameless as he wasn't a bad sort but he was the National President) went belly up financially within about five years. There are numerous examples (far too many to mention) in between times of Accountants and Lawyers shown to be either incompetent or dishonest or both and when they do cross the line invariably we are talking millions ripped off not thousands The difference with your average Master Builder is he and his organisation at least try stand by their work and guarantees in the case of the vast majority of Accountants and Lawyers, they, their lawyers and their insurers will do anything to worm their way out of liability. Their are some great people in this game(Accounting) do not get me wrong but like the racing game there are plenty of leeches sucking on the productive members of the organisation. And can you tell me the legislation that demands that an Incorporated Society must be audited by a member of the Institute? Because if it is not law I am not interested and NZTR have no basis to insist on it. Running around wiping Club's a#*^s is no the job of NZTR and neither is deriving them of funds that are legitimately theirs. THE TORCH and Midget 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,425 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 Come on guys lets get real a club has a stewardship to members and I think an audit is fair for all. If I was doing the accounts I would want them audited. Also people's perception of money and gambling. The biggest reason for fraud is usually to fund a gambling problem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, shaneMcAlister said: Come on guys lets get real a club has a stewardship to members and I think an audit is fair for all. If I was doing the accounts I would want them audited. Also people's perception of money and gambling. The biggest reason for fraud is usually to fund a gambling problem Listen .... Read the earlier posts. The bloody thing has been audited. It is one of if not the smallest club in NZ and expenditure is very closely monitored by the President and committee. You might have a problem with gambling but none of us do. I have seen a million of these sets of figures and I would know instantly if there was a major issue. If my secretarial days I could tell the President how much if anything the Club had made on a day before it was even over. You are not talking about a bunch of halfwits like NZTR here. Belinda 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck"s 40 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 7 hours ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said: Another example of the sort of halfwits we have running this industry. Reefton has a $10000 'governance' grant withheld by NZTR because it's financial statements were not audited by a CAANZ(Chartered Accountants institute) member. Never mind the fact that the bloke who did do it is totally (and I mean TOTALLY) competent to do the job. Anyway they did offer $2000 to 'assist with the Audit cost' so would you expect them to withhold the $2000? Not this lot. Now as we always do we would be using that lost money to boost stakes so it will be the owners,trainers and jockeys who will lose out in all this not the Club. It might not be a lot of money but I reiterate it will be the stakeholder who will DIRECTLY lose in all this. Unlike NZTR we will not be buying more pie warmers or blowing it on a trip to Dubai or somewhere, on legal fees for irrelevant crap or increasing already bloated salaries It would go straight into stakes. So sorry owners because Purcell Moncur and Co want to be petty you are going to miss out. So how much and who pays for the cost of the audit ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 Just now, Beck"s said: So how much and who pays for the cost of the audit ?? Clubs do themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonkatime 323 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 45 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said: Listen .... Read the earlier posts. The bloody thing has been audited. Who audited them and what professional body do they belong to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, tonkatime said: Who audited them and what professional body do they belong to? Pay your sub, become a member and find out. Otherwise mind your own business. The bloke is, I know, EXTREMELY competent and conscientious and as I said in my posts above there are a lot of CAANZ members for whom I would not say the same(including the light fingered former Controller and Auditor General and the Current C & AG who I also met years ago and who I do not rate either - unless she has sharpened her act up a hell of a lot in the meantime) THE TORCH and Huey 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonkatime 323 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 34 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said: Pay your sub, become a member and find out. Otherwise mind your own business. The bloke is, I know, EXTREMELY competent and conscientious and as I said in my posts above there are a lot of CAANZ members for whom I would not say the same(including the light fingered former Controller and Auditor General and the Current C & AG who I also met years ago and who I do not rate either - unless she has sharpened her act up a hell of a lot in the meantime) The current auditor general is male. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 8 hours ago, tonkatime said: The current auditor general is male. The current Auditor General is Lyn Provost who I can assure you is female. Anyway this debate is going nowhere. The bottom line is those dick heads in Petone think they are clever ripping off the Club which has done nothing illegal. The reality is that it is the stakeholders who will lose not the Club. THE TORCH 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Option 63 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 16 hours ago, Palmy Panther said: i would suggest that your petty attitude is costing the stakeholders money. i tend to agree with you on most of your postings about constitutions and leadership at NZTR but digging your toes in and not getting them audited by CAANZ is lowering the pool of money for reefton stakeholders. yes they may have been audited and accepted in the past, but in the past was there a 10K goverance grant ? no there wasn't there is no guarantees of competence, but just as i would personally get a registered master builder to build my house, a barrister/solicitor of the high court to be my lawyer, id get a CAANZ to audit my accounts, it gives me a greater sense of security around their profession and an avenue if there are issues around their competence Typical bloody bean counter talk TOM(the other Molloy) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
