North Island harness racing

[john legend 756]

with the unfortunate financial difficulties in both Auckland and Cambridge harness racing I would like consideration to the well managed and well set up Manawatu centre is given for a major  upgrade  .The collective horses trained within say 2 hours drive of Palmerston North and population is relatively large and time is ripe with the 3 wise men running the country for a "think big Proposal" Father Winston and the Lux and their adopted son little David could all be in favour of a true entertainment centre (harness/ conference/hotel/casino/ )  This hub would be fantastic for the area and attract even more trainers to set up in the region,.By cancellation of many billion dollar projects time could be ripe for such a proposal. .....(or am I still asleep !!)

[Keneperu 406]

Definitely still in "dreamland "after smoking lieing Luxons hard to find cigarettes from one cig shop up North actually turned out to be 35!  Unfortunately HR in that area are non events and if "bet on red" stops travelling from the mainland HR will be a thing of the past just like Hutt Park. Sad but true!

[JJ Flash 2,228]

40 minutes ago, Keneperu said:

Definitely still in "dreamland "after smoking lieing Luxons hard to find cigarettes from one cig shop up North actually turned out to be 35!  Unfortunately HR in that area are non events and if "bet on red" stops travelling from the mainland HR will be a thing of the past just like Hutt Park. Sad but true!

Spoken like a true red labour supporter. Alas for you its at least 3 years of a government committed to looking after business/farmers and productive Kiwis.

[Keneperu 406]

Well not entirely correct. Have voted Winnie in the past and re farmers well a LOT of my farmer friends say they always do better under labour but dont vote for them and on your list  you forgot landlord's,the rich and themselves. lol lol

[john legend 756]

Just think Keneperu,what will these trainers do if MH doesn't front at manawatu... you may have heard of them NICKY CHILCOTT,ANDREW AND LYNN NEAL, GRAEME ROGERSONAND DYLAN FERGUSON, MIKE BERGER, ARNA DONNELLY,STEVE AND AMANDA TELFER, DOUG GALE... (even Ray Green) All at recent meetings as well as MH  and locals Steven Doody,Murray Gibbs,Scott Dickson. The myth of MH keeping HR afloat on his own is just stupid although don't let the truth get in the way of a good (inaccurate).. story.It is appreciated when MH does come and makes for strong competition but without him life goes on.. !!!

[Nelli 478]

Back to the original post. While it was over a decade since we last had a horse racing at Manawatu, the environs for race attendees back then was the least attractive of any race course I've been to, and I've been to most in both Islands. It wasn't a place you'd take a date for a night out or a family for an outing unless they were committed harness fans. I won't  go again! I doubt PN has the population or tourists to support JL's think big proposal. It's a pity but I think focusing solely on attracting horses (stakes), horsemen, and the TV/online punters, with the occasional picnic meeting with/ without the gallops, is the best way to keep harness racing alive in the region.

[JJ Flash 2,228]

4 hours ago, Keneperu said:

Well not entirely correct. Have voted Winnie in the past and re farmers well a LOT of my farmer friends say they always do better under labour but dont vote for them and on your list  you forgot landlord's,the rich and themselves. lol lol

You couldn't make this stuff up, but you did,  thanks for the humour.

[Historian 55]

relatively large?

[canon47 93]

OK my dollars worth. Sell up the park, no real public interest by Aucklanders in the Trotts access  (roading etc) is keeping so many trainers away use existing facilities for conference corporates, night clubs etc   Improve Cambridge track and amenities increase over all price money  without going over board , With Ellerslie all but up and running ?? 40 meetings a year Trotts to use Pukekohe as a grass track twilight and Sunday racing   The public never have nor well they fully support Manawatu  but tidy it up, increase  prize money and race days    

[john legend 756]

sorry Nelli but the well attended picnic meetings in the area eg. otaki, now a motorway virtually from wellington to the course were stamped  out by HRNZ some time ago .the 2 day meeting was a highlight but someone in deepest Christchurch decided  to fix that club by  tacking only 1 day on to wairarapa" s half day in the sun (gallops other half) So its a sad day when great ,well run Clubs have their very existence threatened by simply a bad decision.There has to be an improvement instead of seemingly a desire to wreck Harness Racing from Cambridge to Wellington.

[eljay 1,751]

Wonder if HRNZ have spoken to Winston yet?      Winston who?     Your "new" racing minister.    Really - no one has told us.     So - well no doubt he will contact us when he has a spare moment or two.        

Have we experienced this before?     Get off your asses if you really for the industry.     And dont wait for us to ask - tell us what you have done and are doing.    Oh, and Mauro, this is horse racing not motor racing we talking about.

[JJ Flash 2,228]

3 hours ago, eljay said:

Wonder if HRNZ have spoken to Winston yet?      Winston who?     Your "new" racing minister.    Really - no one has told us.     So - well no doubt he will contact us when he has a spare moment or two.        

Have we experienced this before?     Get off your asses if you really for the industry.     And dont wait for us to ask - tell us what you have done and are doing.    Oh, and Mauro, this is horse racing not motor racing we talking about.

Did any of the Harness big boys donate to NZF. The TB boys did and as they say" The rest is History". So the industry has nobody to blame but themselves although NZB is multi dimensional so that is a possible link.

[john legend 756]

Keneperu,while in a mood to correct your bland statements that have no substance in facts, your extra "throw away line" regarding demise of Hutt Park, we used to get great support from South Island including MH but also John Lischner, Robert Dunn ,Derek Jones and many more so a young MH had a small part  but was a regular supporter which was appreciated. .Lets see if your negativity can be corrected by some facts. The major rise in costs were from a city council that decided it was a commercial operation not a sport therefore would rate and ground rent us  from $4000 per annum  to $125000 per annum a figure that was unsustainable amortised over 17 race nights.It was appealed and I personally addressed the Council  unfortunately unsuccessfully... Most people enjoyed Hutt Park racing and were saddened when it was forced to close.. (osh also played a part wanting lifts fire rated and emergency lighting everywhere etc. $1000s more )

Edited December 7, 2023 by john legend
extra point

[Nelli 478]

It's sad we no longer have grass track racing in Waikato and Bay of Plenty. Yes, it makes short term economic sense and less hassle to run all the races at Cambridge (which with all the grassed areas is family friendly) and Pirongia, the biggest attended meeting of the year, wasn't up to modern track safety requirements. However, it does mean way less promotion of harness racing to a wide audience and therefore has accentuated the decline in interest and acceptance of horse racing in the North and the observable flow on effects on punting and ownership. Who is responsible for promoting our sport in the regions? The clubs, HRNZ or both?

[john legend 756]

I know which 1 it isn"t !! even the latest competition which ends on Sunday...listed Whats on this week good you say yes except when Manawatu was racing they forgot to include it ! from the marketing team HRNZ .so many things happen like this ... hope its only mistakes and not something more sinister. P.S. Otaki only an example. 2 days on grass at New Plymouth was great for all involved. but alas gone 

[Nelli 478]

Used to really enjoy having a horse racing at a 2 day 'Naki meeting.  As well as the racing on beautiful courses, we'd throw the golf clubs and walking shoes in the car and make a real holiday of it. New Plymouth has plenty offer including a great art gallery. 

[MisterEd 355]

North Island harness racing is about 10% the product it was when the grass tracks were racing. The people who led to the demise of grass tracks in the north are a complete bunch of douchebags. 

[john legend 756]

very salient points raised ,Harness Racing needs owners to support Trainers/drivers/ and if the public are never exposed to our great sport they lack interest in betting and ownership. As an example when Whanganui had A 2 day grass trot meeting it was very well attended and public interest was high.Of course it became a 1 day meet then zero !! The proof has been comparing say a big galloping meeting  to NZ trotting cup day. TAB/sports clubs crowded gallops day and virtually nobody Trot  cup day ! 

[Ohokaman 6,010]

On 12/8/2023 at 12:32 PM, john legend said:

I know which 1 it isn"t !! even the latest competition which ends on Sunday...listed Whats on this week good you say yes except when Manawatu was racing they forgot to include it ! from the marketing team HRNZ .so many things happen like this ... hope its only mistakes and not something more sinister. P.S. Otaki only an example. 2 days on grass at New Plymouth was great for all involved. but alas gone 

Didn’t know they had a marketing team John…pretty ineffectual if they have….

Used to love going to Hutt Park by the way. Great support from North ( Purdons, Wolfenden,Holmes, Jessop and co ) and South ( Noble/McKenzie, Derek Jones etc ) provided some great racing and entertainment. 
Surrendering the lease on the track back to the Hutt Council in the mid 90’s was never going to end well unfortunately.

[Womby 64]

Quite interesting some of the comments here re grass track racing.

What you people don’t realise is that the galloping clubs in the Waikato and Bay of Plenty decided to deny the availability of the grass tracks for a couple of reasons.

The dates committee every year argued for the summer dates rather than have traditional dates that were easily planned for, ie entertainment, food trucks etc, and the dates were changed between the codes with perhaps the gallops having a little more sway?

Gallops trials were more money making propositions in some clubs opinions despite the community enjoying harness racing for decades previously.

And from a financial point of view it costs heaps more to run a one off grass track meeting after paying a big rent to a galloping track and then all the add ons when the harness club with an all weather track can do it without the weather threat and with the club itself benefiting.

In saying that I really enjoyed grass track racing, just as I do all weather track racing.

Join your local club committee and be part of these decisions and discussions.

 

[john legend 756]

Hi Womby, us people been there done that . . The feeling generally is the galloping guys take what they want then harness racing takes what they offer and if hrnz can fit it in then go... It still makes economic sense to run a meeting on courses that are used say 15 times a year and large majority are empty. Of course some Galloping track people blame their state of track after a few harness races as virtually permanently destroyed which is laughable..when I was on committees that raced members did voluntarily clean the grounds and stands before and after the (dreaded trotting people)meeting.

Ps. What decisions can individual clubs make ?.(decisions come from entain/tab/NZRb/Hrnz etc etc.) perhaps whether to put sauce on the hotdogs.lol

Edited December 9, 2023 by john legend
xtra points

[canon47 93]

The simple answer for  grass tracks for the Trotters pacers buy/build your own  Look around at all the tracks closed by NZTR lease them Levin for example trotters train there so why not race there How much capital did trotting put into building or improving tracks like Wanganui,  New Plymouth,  Strafford etc not a cent. Now that they are up and running sounds to me you guys feel you have a god given right to race on them for next to nothing! Just like Hutt Park if the industry cant support the club and pay  market rates then move on.Its user pay.  WHAT does the industry do to promote and get more punters, owners and young people involved ?  

[lamour 702]

3 minutes ago, canon47 said:

WHAT does the industry do to promote and get more punters, owners and young people involved ?  

An excellent question that needs to be answered. HRNZ need to come up with a 5 year vision and plan to increase betting & involvement of the next generation.  

[Keneperu 406]

Certainly got Jon Legend fired up. Luv it!! Legend you left off a few names . Lance Heron,Les Norman Clarrie Woodward ,Clem Scott. I can remember travelling to Manawatu  from Napier to watch Stylish Major,LeChant race and did it twice a week.If you think Lieing Luxon and the coalition of cigarettes and chaos are going to help harness racing out in the North Island not are you in dreamland your also in cuckoo land. Hopefully I'm wrong but the future of Manawatu don't look bright.

[Tauhei Notts 1,428]

#1.  I'm new to this thread but I am becoming concerned about harness racing.  The effects of having clowns running Alex Park has been far reaching.

#2.  What happened to Hawera's two day Easter meeting?  I recall an owner trainer telling me that if he didn't have a horse or two to take to Hawera he went out and bought one.  It was that good.  

#3.  Chat after a funeral yesterday.   I'm from a galloping town originally, and one boy in our class was the son of a trots owner-trainer.  That boy (now aged 75) always had a share in up to four horses.  Late 2023=nothing.  He had even been a trotting club president for several years.  Harness racing has lost that sort of person, and is unlikely to get them back.

#4   I have been to the trots at places as diverse as Westport, Cromwell and VIncennes, but have not been to the trots since Show Day 2020.

#5  A late old mate who had a twelfth share, or more, in 18 horses bequeathed all his horse shares to the trainer.  The trainer declined the bequest as she could not afford them.  That makes trotting horses a liability, not an asset, as one cannot bequeath a liability.