NZTR'S Arrogance knows no bounds

[racingoutsider]

13 hours ago, Griffin said:

What jurisdiction would allow a horse to be struck on the highly sensitive flank i.e. without muscle protection, with the polymer section of the whip i.e no cushion?

Totally agree, the number of riders we have here that hit that area is bloody terrible. 

Really gets in my craw that it is allowed here. Disgusting.

[Pam Robson]

Although not on this particular topic,   another potential welfare issue IMO is the hurried dispatch of horse floats after races, with the last competitors rushed on as soon as hosed/scraped off, and without having time to catch their breath or cool down properly.

My English lad tells me that an hour must elapse before a horse can be transported off a racecourse,  Jockey Club rules.        Also in the UK and I think I noticed in the US as well, track staff arrive with buckets of water to slosh over and quickly cool down the victor post race.

Way ahead of us wrt consideration for the animal.

As for the inspection of training facilities by the RIB for suitability, condition of horses, etc;  that seems to have stalled, after a great deal of puffery and virtue-signalling?   and while they are patting themselves on the back about all the attention to welfare,  how about they have a look at the cleanliness and safety of visitor stabling for race meets?  I realise some of the smaller outfits do rely on minimal or volunteer staff, but that doesn't apply to the bigger ones.

 

[Insider]

Is it time to bombard Bruce Sharrock with emails of posts from this site?

A particularly good one to start with would be Pam's one above. let alone the one immediately above it.

Liz

[scooby3051]

2 hours ago, Pam Robson said:

Although not on this particular topic,   another potential welfare issue IMO is the hurried dispatch of horse floats after races, with the last competitors rushed on as soon as hosed/scraped off, and without having time to catch their breath or cool down properly.

My English lad tells me that an hour must elapse before a horse can be transported off a racecourse,  Jockey Club rules.        Also in the UK and I think I noticed in the US as well, track staff arrive with buckets of water to slosh over and quickly cool down the victor post race.

Way ahead of us wrt consideration for the animal.

As for the inspection of training facilities by the RIB for suitability, condition of horses, etc;  that seems to have stalled, after a great deal of puffery and virtue-signalling?   and while they are patting themselves on the back about all the attention to welfare,  how about they have a look at the cleanliness and safety of visitor stabling for race meets?  I realise some of the smaller outfits do rely on minimal or volunteer staff, but that doesn't apply to the bigger ones.

 

I understand trentham for instance the stables are filthy...agree Pam and Insider things need to be changed everywhere just on the flash raceways...and can anyone find BS these days....too busy with outside activities.

[Integrity101]

On 8/14/2024 at 7:37 AM, racingoutsider said:

Yes, and in relation to that example, the BHA rule is that a rider must allow 3 strides between each use of the whip. This is logical in order to allow the horse time to respond. On penalty, 4 uses which amount to a breach lead to disqualification of the horse. That seems  reasonable to me based on current evidence.

Absolutely reasonable.

Not only is there flagrant flank abuse here, a number of jockeys are leaving the whip flailing behind the saddle and half striking the flank before the allowed strike.

I've seen the suggestion of one strike without delay,  then hands straight back on the wither

[Integrity101]

20 hours ago, racingoutsider said:

Yes, interesting to note that the original recommendation of the BHA whip review committee was for backhand whip use only but because of some research showing that to be more forceful than overhand use and that it was thought to be more likely to inadvertently strike the flank, they decided to include overhand use and also allow flat riders the option of using jumper whips which have a longer flap to mitigate that risk.

The US has similar rules now. 6 strikes per race and a 2 stride delay required. Also a 4 strikes over and you're out rule - purse money withdrawn.

HISA data shows ""the average winning times of races over all distances was broadly in line with those recorded last year, suggesting the reduced use of the whip was not making the sport less competitive".

Further, Hall of Fame jockey, John Velazquez presented the jockey input to the rule change on behalf of US jockeys.

It looks as if the international community has moved way ahead of NZTR who're obviously asleep at the wheel. Flank abuse and zero repercussions related to the integrity of results, especially so in the Black Type integrity of the catalogue.  International jurisdiction norms, yea na.

More like "works diligently to force pain into the flank of the horse for the benefit of owner's bank accounts"

New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing recognises that animal welfare perception concerning whip use is creating on-going debate internationally. NZTR works diligently to ensure that strong provisions and guidelines around whip use are enforced for the benefit of both horses and humans. 

 

 

[Integrity101]

7 hours ago, racingoutsider said:

Really gets in my craw that it is allowed here. Disgusting.

That pik rings a bell

Oh the irony.  LOVE racing logo alongside a whip abusing the flank of a horse.

LOVE racing HATES welfare

[Integrity101]

5 hours ago, Pam Robson said:

Although not on this particular topic,   another potential welfare issue IMO is the hurried dispatch of horse floats after races, with the last competitors rushed on as soon as hosed/scraped off, and without having time to catch their breath or cool down properly.

My English lad tells me that an hour must elapse before a horse can be transported off a racecourse,  Jockey Club rules.        Also in the UK and I think I noticed in the US as well, track staff arrive with buckets of water to slosh over and quickly cool down the victor post race.

Way ahead of us wrt consideration for the animal.

As for the inspection of training facilities by the RIB for suitability, condition of horses, etc;  that seems to have stalled, after a great deal of puffery and virtue-signalling?   and while they are patting themselves on the back about all the attention to welfare,  how about they have a look at the cleanliness and safety of visitor stabling for race meets?  I realise some of the smaller outfits do rely on minimal or volunteer staff, but that doesn't apply to the bigger ones.

 

Justine Sclater is John Thompson's (Rich Hill Stud) sister, a fine racing family with welfare at the forefront.

Justine is NZTR'S HOD Welfare and I'm sure she'd like to know about that situation.

[email protected]

Maybe ask why they're still permitting whipping the flank as well?

[Leggy]

39 minutes ago, Integrity101 said:

Justine Sclater is John Thompson's (Rich Hill Stud) sister, a fine racing family with welfare at the forefront.

Justine is NZTR'S HOD Welfare and I'm sure she'd like to know about that situation.

[email protected]

Maybe ask why they're still permitting whipping the flank as well?

I've posed the following question of Darin Balcombe and Bruce Sharrock for the upcoming roadshow. Hopefully, that would be thoroughly covered in their strategic update on NZTR activities anyway and that they will have up to date input from Justine and the NZTR welfare team, so we get some clear answers.

Question

Again, it is not mentioned in the SOI, and only briefly and of low importance in the 2022 Thoroughbred Welfare Strategy Update1, nor is it mentioned in subsequent Thoroughbred Welfare updates. What is the current policy and action with respect to bringing the whip regulations more into line with current international research and standards? This is having a considerable negative impact on many participants at present, and the public perception of racing with respect to its “social licence” in New Zealand.

 

 

[Integrity101]

On 8/14/2024 at 9:42 AM, Nerula said:

Just get rid of the damned whip.

The horses that want to race will win.

Jockeys will have to ride longer leathers to ride hands and heels. More safety to rider and horses due to balance. Less cancellations..

Less activists outside the gate.

You know it makes sense

Touche, PEPPERY's jockey loses the whip on the turn, nek minute wins with H & H!

And the odd slap

[Integrity101]

Take a look at this NZTR hypocrisy from their 'WELFARE 2022 document'

Not worth the paper mache it's written on by the looks.

After the RIB informed NZTR  in 2023 "we object to your latest whip rule' 

"NZTR (and where relevant the RIB) will hold racing and breeding participants accountable for increasingly high expectations for the care of our horses and for compliance with more timely and accurate information requirements.

NZTR does however hold itself accountable to our participants to ensure that our strategy is planned and consulted upon with thoughtfulness and undertaken with good effect.

NZTR’s accountability, on behalf of the industry and participants, extends to ensuring that relevant government agencies and animal welfare organisations remain appropriately and regularly appraised of our initiatives and by providing accurate relevant data."

So "consulted and planned with 'thoughtfulness'"  then ignore the RIB whose by line is

"The Racing Integrity Board promotes and ensures compliance with high standards of integrity, animal welfare and professionalism by people in the racing industry.  The Racing Integrity Board’s core functions are:

...monitoring racing code animal welfare policies and initiatives"

NZTR's "increasingly high expectations" sign up to ban flank whipping, then withdrew but failed to apologise

#pfftt

 

 

 

 

[Pam Robson]

On 8/15/2024 at 12:38 PM, Integrity101 said:

Justine Sclater is John Thompson's (Rich Hill Stud) sister, a fine racing family with welfare at the forefront.

Justine is NZTR'S HOD Welfare and I'm sure she'd like to know about that situation.

[email protected]

Maybe ask why they're still permitting whipping the flank as well?

Did that.

[racingoutsider]

1 hour ago, Pam Robson said:

Did that.

Please let us all know the response you get.

[Integrity101]

On 8/15/2024 at 1:29 PM, Leggy said:

I've posed the following question of Darin Balcombe and Bruce Sharrock for the upcoming roadshow. Hopefully, that would be thoroughly covered in their strategic update on NZTR activities anyway and that they will have up to date input from Justine and the NZTR welfare team, so we get some clear answers.

Question

 

Again, it is not mentioned in the SOI, and only briefly and of low importance in the 2022 Thoroughbred Welfare Strategy Update1, nor is it mentioned in subsequent Thoroughbred Welfare updates. What is the current policy and action with respect to bringing the whip regulations more into line with current international research and standards? This is having a considerable negative impact on many participants at present, and the public perception of racing with respect to its “social licence” in New Zealand.

 

 

 

An excellent question.

Then the follow up should be interesting after you perhaps show J Doyle's effort in striking the highly sensitive, vulnerable flank numerous times as many here do.

Or just maybe they've seen this post and they'll be embarrassed into admitting they'd signed up to a flank ban, failed to adopt it, then withdrew from it altogether.

I'm thinking the previous Welfare chap, Marty Burns, an excellent operator btw, took a wild guess when he was at the IFHA meeting that NZTR would want to walk the talk rather than just virtue signal??

Maybe that's why he's in another job now after they took umbrage at his audacity in wanting to walk instead of NZTR's want of crawling and bawling like a wee bairn??

 

[Pam Robson]

2 hours ago, Integrity101 said:

An excellent question.

Then the follow up should be interesting after you perhaps show J Doyle's effort in striking the highly sensitive, vulnerable flank numerous times as many here do.

Or just maybe they've seen this post and they'll be embarrassed into admitting they'd signed up to a flank ban, failed to adopt it, then withdrew from it altogether.

I'm thinking the previous Welfare chap, Marty Burns, an excellent operator btw, took a wild guess when he was at the IFHA meeting that NZTR would want to walk the talk rather than just virtue signal??

Maybe that's why he's in another job now after they took umbrage at his audacity in wanting to walk instead of NZTR's want of crawling and bawling like a wee bairn??

 

Marty, I thought, was excellent.  He was my go-to whenever I couldn't get the phone answered by other personnel.  Although not his specific job, he would speedily rustle up the non-answering staff member, and if he couldn't, he'd sort it himself.

A huge loss IMO.

[Pam Robson]

17 hours ago, racingoutsider said:

Please let us all know the response you get.

I got a prompt and courteous reply, which asked for specific examples and then re-iterated NZTR's current stance.

I provided the specific examples, so await with interest.

[fermoy]

On 8/15/2024 at 9:22 AM, scooby3051 said:

I understand trentham for instance the stables are filthy...agree Pam and Insider things need to be changed everywhere just on the flash raceways...and can anyone find BS these days....too busy with outside activities.

He's keeping his finger on the pulse and  keeping in touch with those at the coal face as any good CEO should do surely?

Shame he's not been using more taxi chits though , but this is probably why they must be flying from Taranaki to Manawatu for the Roadshow in September because the end of one is only two hours before the start of the next.

[Insider]

8 minutes ago, fermoy said:

He's keeping his finger on the pulse and  keeping in touch with those at the coal face as any good CEO should do surely?

Shame he's not been using more taxi chits though , but this is probably why they must be flying from Taranaki to Manawatu for the Roadshow in September because the end of one is only two hours before the start of the next.

Yes I don’t how they are going to achieve that timeframe either, unless Sir Peter Vella has offered his chopper. 
There are certainly no scheduled flights between New Plymouth and Palmerston North. 

[fermoy]

12 minutes ago, Insider said:

Yes I don’t how they are going to achieve that timeframe either, unless Sir Peter Vella has offered his chopper. 
There are certainly no scheduled flights between New Plymouth and Palmerston North. 

Set up to fail again maybe?

[Integrity101]

So when NZTR decided to adopt the Arstralian track rating 'system'...you know an extra layer of HEAVY (8,9,10) instead of 10/11 where some punters refuse to bet HEAVY

"we're changing to provide a more 'accurate' assessment of the track conditions for stake holders"

What a load of old cobblers.

.They then ditched the penotrometer reading as well which is DIRECTLY related to the number system!  Also did away with the 11 rating,which happens every other week in winter, then kept a 1 rating, which occurs once in a blue moon at Tow Poo.

So if they wanted to help out Australian punters with the same rating system, not acknowledging the fact Kiwi tracks are completely different

Why wouldn't they also adopt the CHANGE OF TACTICS requirement to help out 'punting integrity' for Aussies as well??

Much needed here.

In a recent meeting at Awapuni Sweenz commented "Roydon Berg told me they're going to race close to the pace if not lead this time after previously racing back"

Shot straight to the front and never looked in danger winning easily!

Strangely the RIB will notify the intention of those trainers who want to help out the industry with 'punting integrity' by informing trackside.

So some cases notified, others complete silence.  

Works well in Australia to maintain a 'punting integrity' NZTR arrogantly refuses to adopt a system that Australian punters are used to.

[scooby3051]

On 8/21/2024 at 9:34 AM, Integrity101 said:

An excellent question.

Then the follow up should be interesting after you perhaps show J Doyle's effort in striking the highly sensitive, vulnerable flank numerous times as many here do.

Or just maybe they've seen this post and they'll be embarrassed into admitting they'd signed up to a flank ban, failed to adopt it, then withdrew from it altogether.

I'm thinking the previous Welfare chap, Marty Burns, an excellent operator btw, took a wild guess when he was at the IFHA meeting that NZTR would want to walk the talk rather than just virtue signal??

Maybe that's why he's in another job now after they took umbrage at his audacity in wanting to walk instead of NZTR's want of crawling and bawling like a wee bairn??

 

Not only J Doyle doing this and its not a good look in these ever changing times we live in and racing must keep changing...the days of crash and bash are in the rear view mirror...and thats a good thing.

[Ohokaman]

Meanwhile in Victoria……

 

Jockeys have been put on notice ahead of the spring, with Racing Victoria flagging harsher penalties for riding offences in feature races over the coming months.

In a communication to jockeys on Monday, RV's integrity department confirmed the suspensions for offences related to careless, reckless and improper riding, as well as the contentious whip rule, will be longer in Group 1 events and any other races that carry prizemoney of $750,000 or more.

Ordinarily, low-range careless riding carries a minimum penalty of a 10-meeting suspension, but this will increase to 14 meetings, beginning with Saturday's Memsie Stakes. Minimum suspensions for mid-range and high-range careless riding will also jump sharply to 22 meetings and 26 meetings respectively.

As well as significant fines, suspensions will be dished out to riders who breach the whip rule, which restricts use to no more than five times before the 100-metre mark of any race.

Suspensions will increase by between four and eight meetings on the current template, depending on the degree of the breach.

For instance, an 11-meeting suspension will be handed to a jockey for using their whip nine times before the 100m - four more than allowed under the rule - provided their total use is less than 16 strikes.

A rider who uses their whip 10 times before the 100m and more than 15 times during the entire race will be handed a lengthy 18-meeting ban.

RV chairman of stewards Rob Montgomery said the changes are in response to data collected from G1 races in recent seasons and are designed to stamp out a 'win-at-all-costs' mentality.

"Our top priority is ensuring that racing is conducted safely, allowing riders to return home to their loved ones without incident," Montgomery said.

"This is why we have rules in place around careless riding.

"After reviewing the data, we identified that suspensions were occurring more often in Group 1 races, with riders 3.3 times more likely over the past three seasons to be suspended under AR131 in these feature races compared to others, which is concerning.

"In terms of the whip rules, compliance has continued to improve over recent years and is in the best interests of the sport.

"However, we want to ensure that riders don't ignore their obligations with the whip because there is a bigger prize at stake.

"We recognise that the stakes are higher in Group 1 races and thus the incentive may be there for some riders to push too far in search of success.

"For the safety of all riders, we want to ensure that a win-at-all-costs attitude does not creep in."

[scooby3051]

That is what's called progressive thinking...could use some of that here....when it hurts their pocket it WILL make a difference.

[Basil brush]

Disqualify a horse if a Jockey uses the whip more than 2 strikes over the limit.Message will get through pretty quick.

[Insider]

Stop pussyfooting around and ban the damn thing (whip) altogether otherwise racing will be finished in 20 years with the death rattle setting in within 10 years. 
Liz