WOODBINE

NZB Sales and Gavelhouse- Non disclosure of windsucking

14 posts in this topic

Over the years I have purchased three mares - two via Gavelhouse and one at Karaka May Sale that were chronic wind suckers. In all three cases the fact that the mares were wind suckers was not disclosed and were subsequently  based at outside agistment  properties that were had electric fencing. When I moved these mares home I immediately noted that they were windsucking as I had one paddock with a small section of post and rail fencing that was not electrified. 

My most recent purchase was on Gavelhouse on 2nd March which included a foal at foot. When I noted the windsucking I contacted Gavelhouse and was informed that I had to provide a video of the mare wind sucking and also a vet certificate thereon. I made direct contact with the previous owner who admitted that he had seen this mare windsuck but that she didn’t do it very often.

I requested him to take back the mare at no cost but no offer was forthcoming.

This lack of accountability bugs me as all the responsibility is being placed on the purchaser by the selling agent to prove that the horse is a wind sucker within 7 days of sale. The vendor is deliberately misrepresenting the horse when a wind sucker is not being declared with ultimate limited responsibility.

This is a matter that the NZTBA should take up with Gavelhouse etc so that vendors are made directly accountable for their deceit. A 7 day period is to short and should be extended to 30 days. Another suggestion that such deceitful vendors are named and shamed in much the same way as NZTR do with non payers of fines etc.

FYI I paid reasonable prices for two of these mares and incurred major losses in both cases.

Are there any other stories that could be told?

 

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Woodbine.... Have I got a story for you - bought a filly as a "racing and breeding proposition" and she was a grade 5 scope :rcf-angry-2: there is a thread on here about it titled "Gavelhouse buyer beware" 

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7 hours ago, Kingshill said:

Woodbine.... Have I got a story for you - bought a filly as a "racing and breeding proposition" and she was a grade 5 scope :rcf-angry-2: there is a thread on here about it titled "Gavelhouse buyer beware" 

I see that.

 

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Yes,  I'm aware of two cases involving friends;  one chose to act, and did get some recompense,   the others didnt take any action until much later but, obviously, got nowhere.

I understood that there was a universal, legal obligation to disclose windsucking when offering for sale.?

Is this not the case?  It seems that vendors have a fair bit of wriggle-room from what i have heard. 

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I also bought a horse on Gavelhouse this year which was an undisclosed windsucker. Because the horse was bought primarily as a hack/sport horse, I would not have bought it if I had known that. However my experience with both Gavelhouse and the vendor subsequent to taking delivery of the horse was at least reasonable. There are a couple on here that I consulted in the due diligence process who will be able to identify the horse and the vendor but I am not going to name names.

I'm quite aware that buying horses in online auctions is a somewhat fraught and risky activity and that caveat emptor applies. This horse was sold as a racehorse and I was going to try it before it reverted to its sport horse activities. It was probably going to have a home for life. It was delivered directly to my trainer who texted me the next day saying did you know this horse is a windsucker? Of course I didn't.

I contacted Gavelhouse immediately  to discuss options. They were essentially ignore it, revoke the sale per the sale conditions, or renegotiate. Gavelhouse staff preferred to handle things with the vendor rather than me doing so directly. It was a relatively inexpensive horse, so the freight, vet, training fees etc had already added at least 25% to the purchase price.

Like you Woodbine, they asked for video evidence. Because I was nearby, that was relatively easy to obtain, though in order to cancel the sale, a vet certificate was required within 7 working days of delivery. In short, we ended up reaching agreement on a revised price and the sale was concluded.

Issues/remarks.

  • Had I brought the horse straight here as originally planned, it would have gone into an electric fenced paddock and I may not have known it was a windsucker until the 7 working days had expired.
  • There were communication delays between me, Gavelhouse and the vendor which also threatened the 7 day window.
  • Was I going to have to get the vet to bring a camp bed before they observed the horse windsucking so they could provide the cert if I decided to cancel the sale?
  • The vendors claimed they didn't know the horse was a windsucker but it's a 3yo and they had had it since it was a weanling.
  • When I phoned the former trainer they said it had always been a windsucker but a windsucking strap worked. The latter appears to be the case.
  • Since it wasn't declared in the ad, it wasn't something we asked about when checking on the horse prior to purchase.
  • Even though I had a vet clinical exam (non-sale condition)  as well as the scope (sale condition), windsucking is obviously not determinable in that process.

Don't know how this could be better handled but those are just my thoughts/queries based on that experience.

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Thanks for these posts

Imagine if the Group 1 winner Hasaholo was an undisclosed windsucker and was sold on Gavelhouse without this disclosure ?

I spoke with this mare’s previous trainer from Melbourne who advised me that she was a wind sucker.

The other mare I purchased on Gavelhouse had been listed twice, and it was only when I read her first listing where it had been disclosed that she was a wind sucker that I raised the issue. When I purchased this mare she was sent to an outside agistment farm which had paddocks that were fully electrified so my point is the 7 day period must be extended to at least 30 days.

 

 

 

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Maybe doing some investigations before purchasing, eg any past trainers handlers ect, if at all possible, will a broodmare pass it on to its progeny,.

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How can you complete such investigations when the horse is being sold at an online auction.?

We need a major horse sale like Hasaholo or similar transaction sum which involves an undisclosed windsucker to give this issue some major publicity 

I am not a lawyer but understand commercial law issues and believe that vendors have an obligation to answer all questions correctly and completely on the sales entry process for Gavelhouse. There appears to be a common trend for vendors to deliberately ignore to not disclose windsuckers when there is a sales entry requirement for them to do so. 

This is deceptive and has been swept under the counter by our industry for too long. There has to be accountability and today a 7 day rule is not practical as demonstrated by Gavelhouse’s requirement for the purchaser to video the wind sucking and engage an expensive vet to observe and then report on this behaviour 

Perhaps Brian De Lore could write an article on this unacceptable behaviour 

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Guys...if this is an issue with you then start a campaign. Make Gravel house have to include a basic check list on conditions that are known prior to sale. Then add a rating system. If the vendor screws up, their rating gets hammered. Shortly they can't sell because no one trusts them. Works everywhere else.

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17 minutes ago, Berri said:

Guys...if this is an issue with you then start a campaign. Make Gravel house have to include a basic check list on conditions that are known prior to sale. Then add a rating system. If the vendor screws up, their rating gets hammered. Shortly they can't sell because no one trusts them. Works everywhere else.

I don’t see how Gavelhouse can duck their own obligations here, given they have a requirement ( a loose one obviously ) that everything needs to be disclosed to potential buyers before sale......if not, I would have thought any sale would be null and void.

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2 hours ago, Ohokaman said:

I don’t see how Gavelhouse can duck their own obligations here, given they have a requirement ( a loose one obviously ) that everything needs to be disclosed to potential buyers before sale......if not, I would have thought any sale would be null and void.

Agreed. Simple really....tell Gravelhouse to get their shit together, implement the correct procedures, buyer guarantees and ratings systems. If they don't embargo them. Tell them to piss off by not registering horses with them. It's immoral that they don't stand behind their customers. 

The wild west....

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I've had a couple of similar experiences buying through Gavelhouse,even after talking to the vendors pre buying.Was blatantly lied to re size and one was a chronic windsucker.My policy now is vendors are all guilty  re information provided until proven innocent.Buyer beware for sure.

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