tim vince

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Depends on the trainer. I always worked in 50/50 deals myself. The dog has to make 10-12k per year to cover all costs. So maths should dictate about a $230 fee. Obviously your dog wont need to make that if the owner is paying bills aswell

Imports can vary alot aswell depending on the seller. Ive seen a few group one winners come over for descent prices of 10-25k. Others not so much. A descent starting point is 8 or 9 k and 10-12k landed (with new fees). 8 or 9 k will buy you a top grade sprinter or a descent c4/5 dog. Although like i said, it totally depends on the seller. Plus, i wouldnt trust the majority of syndicators in NZ. Ive seen several owners say they spent more money on dogs than i know was spent on that dog for a fact so make sure you arent getting ripped off in that department

Edited by Rules For Some

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On 7/22/2019 at 3:52 PM, Seddon said:

$80-100 week for training + vet bills ect if any on top of that. From what I here about $15k+ for a import and that would be no champion.

That is what we used to pay our trainers 20yrs ago!  Has it not gone up in all that time??

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What it should cost owners for training of a race dog and what it actually cost's are very different. Personally I believe this inconsistency will be what finally drives smaller trainers out of the game. Here's some facts to consider when pondering what you believe is a fair price to pay. I pay $35 a day for my dog that's 1 6th of the size of a greyhound to go to doggy daycare, the hours are strict, drop off after 7am and pick up before 6pm, no food is given, they expect the dogs are feed prior to arriving, they spend the day in a secure paddock with shelter and toys. For $400 a month instead of the $35 day rate I can drop my dog there as many days as I want. Please can someone give me a valid reason as to why a race dog should be any cheaper per day to train for its owners? Bare in mind race dogs are fed twice a day and fed only the very best meat available, often given expensive vitamin supplements, they are also checked over, massaged or ultrasounded if need be, cared for 24hrs day and night and then prepared and transported to the races, all this plus numerous other tasks involved with their care. Greyhound trainers need to band together, if only just once, and agree on a fixed price that you all charge, hey someone will do it cheaper but leave them to it. With the increased stake money available and the fact dogs can race twice a week I think its high time the greyhound code has a go at shrugging that "far cheaper than owning a race horse" belief of its shoulders and gets with the real times. Personally I just want to sit back and watch some of these owners who have taken the piss for years start to exit "stage right" at a great rate of knots!! 

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2 hours ago, My Two Cents said:

What it should cost owners for training of a race dog and what it actually cost's are very different. Personally I believe this inconsistency will be what finally drives smaller trainers out of the game. Here's some facts to consider when pondering what you believe is a fair price to pay. I pay $35 a day for my dog that's 1 6th of the size of a greyhound to go to doggy daycare, the hours are strict, drop off after 7am and pick up before 6pm, no food is given, they expect the dogs are feed prior to arriving, they spend the day in a secure paddock with shelter and toys. For $400 a month instead of the $35 day rate I can drop my dog there as many days as I want. Please can someone give me a valid reason as to why a race dog should be any cheaper per day to train for its owners? Bare in mind race dogs are fed twice a day and fed only the very best meat available, often given expensive vitamin supplements, they are also checked over, massaged or ultrasounded if need be, cared for 24hrs day and night and then prepared and transported to the races, all this plus numerous other tasks involved with their care. Greyhound trainers need to band together, if only just once, and agree on a fixed price that you all charge, hey someone will do it cheaper but leave them to it. With the increased stake money available and the fact dogs can race twice a week I think its high time the greyhound code has a go at shrugging that "far cheaper than owning a race horse" belief of its shoulders and gets with the real times. Personally I just want to sit back and watch some of these owners who have taken the piss for years start to exit "stage right" at a great rate of knots!! 

Because the trainers are also making money out of the results of the dogs whereas doggy day cares solely rely on that income.

Any trainer who argues owners must pay are obviously not very good trainers. 

I survived 25 yrs on 50/50 deals and did not expect my owners to cover any of the costs. 

Caring for a greyhound should only cost about 16 dollars a day. I stated previously that for a person to make a profit on a 50/50 deal, the dog would have to make 12k a year.

Devide that by 2 for 6k a year. Devide 6k by 52 and you get roughly $115 a week and than you devide that by 7 and you get about $16 a day. Its far easier to make this kind of money than it was 10 yrs ago

I for one would never send you a dog if you act like that with all of your owners!

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49 minutes ago, Rules For Some said:

Because the trainers are also making money out of the results of the dogs whereas doggy day cares solely rely on that income.

Any trainer who argues owners must pay are obviously not very good trainers. 

I survived 25 yrs on 50/50 deals and did not expect my owners to cover any of the costs. 

Caring for a greyhound should only cost about 16 dollars a day. I stated previously that for a person to make a profit on a 50/50 deal, the dog would have to make 12k a year.

Devide that by 2 for 6k a year. Devide 6k by 52 and you get roughly $115 a week and than you devide that by 7 and you get about $16 a day. Its far easier to make this kind of money than it was 10 yrs ago

I for one would never send you a dog if you act like that with all of your owners!

I've haven't got owners, been there done that. Got tucked based off word of mouth stats as to what their dogs could apparently do hence accepting their dogs on 50/50. Had one run 50mtrs then turn around and run back, one that jumped and hooked so hard to the right it almost hit the outside fence and worse still it stayed there the entire way (which was about 25 seconds for a 300 sprint by the way) That one cost me $50 every trial to pay for the replacement of the sprinkler heads it destroyed on the way around. Had another that was "yip he's ready to go", all but knocked my front teeth out trying to load it in the boxes for the first trial for me, took that one to the best greyhound vet in the country and he couldn't believe another trainer with years of experience could suggest it was "yip ready to race", he suspected it hadn't left it kennel to exercise...... ever!! Just out of interest who in your opinion are the top 5 trainers in the Akl/Waikato region? And who would you suggest has been the most successful, business wise? 

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3 hours ago, My Two Cents said:

I've haven't got owners, been there done that. Got tucked based off word of mouth stats as to what their dogs could apparently do hence accepting their dogs on 50/50. Had one run 50mtrs then turn around and run back, one that jumped and hooked so hard to the right it almost hit the outside fence and worse still it stayed there the entire way (which was about 25 seconds for a 300 sprint by the way) That one cost me $50 every trial to pay for the replacement of the sprinkler heads it destroyed on the way around. Had another that was "yip he's ready to go", all but knocked my front teeth out trying to load it in the boxes for the first trial for me, took that one to the best greyhound vet in the country and he couldn't believe another trainer with years of experience could suggest it was "yip ready to race", he suspected it hadn't left it kennel to exercise...... ever!! Just out of interest who in your opinion are the top 5 trainers in the Akl/Waikato region? And who would you suggest has been the most successful, business wise? 

In no particular order I think the top 5 trainers in the Northern Region would be:
Udy/Cottem, Henley, Steele, Walsh, P Green

Most successful business wise I think it would be either Walsh or Udy/Cottem

Then you could also look at the younger trainers that are coming up with the likes of Emma Potts & Shardae Hunt.

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6 hours ago, Gary Sharp said:

In no particular order I think the top 5 trainers in the Northern Region would be:
Udy/Cottem, Henley, Steele, Walsh, P Green

Most successful business wise I think it would be either Walsh or Udy/Cottem

Then you could also look at the younger trainers that are coming up with the likes of Emma Potts & Shardae Hunt.

Gary you need to take into account when making comments of who the top northern trainers are the likes of the class of dog they have access to either dogs that are bought by owners who can  afford to out lay the dollars or have the breeding set up to produce litters which gives them a better chance of getting good dogs to train. There are a number of trainers in the north who I view do a excellent job with the type of dog they race. Keeping in mind that a number of them are racing 2nd tier dogs from the 2 biggest breeders in NZ. Gary cant undersatnd how you left the Craiks off your list they have been one if not one of the best trainers in the North for the last 30 odd years.

Anyway Gary I fear for the future of the northern region as there are not enough the younger generation taking  it on the costs of land etc to set up is just to much and the money is not there to meet comitments.

Also the board are making far reaching decesions which will come back and bite them in the ass i.e. import fees which I feel they are being leaned on by outside influences.

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12 hours ago, Rules For Some said:

Caring for a greyhound should only cost about 16 dollars a day. I stated previously that for a person to make a profit on a 50/50 deal, the dog would have to make 12k a year.

Devide that by 2 for 6k a year. Devide 6k by 52 and you get roughly $115 a week and than you devide that by 7 and you get about $16 a day. Its far easier to make this kind of money than it was 10 yrs ago

I for one would never send you a dog if you act like that with all of your owners

I for one wouldn't train a dog for you if you think someone is making money by outlaying $16 a day then getting paid $16 a day! 50/50 dogs HAVE to earn $25k+ a year and then your running at a standard 100% margin, but, and there's big buts!! This doesn't include trial fees, travel to trials, worming, fleaing, registration, bedding, bowls, muzzles, travel to race days, vet bills etc etc etc, all this let alone getting paid something for your labour!!! Sorry to tell you that you didn't make any money from the 50/50 dogs you trained that won $12k a year, you lost money hand over fist!!! Imagine if that word "income tax" was also thrown in the mix!!!! 

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The north lacks alot of depth, especially as one big trainer is gone, Clark has cut down his numbers, and walsh doesnt have the same numbers she once did either. Craiks are the only trainers still racing a large group of dogs and the other trainers listed have come into fill the gap.

 Id say the best northern trainers personally would be walsh, craiks, ferguson, udy/cottam and 5th probably goes to steeles.

Especially as without udy/cottam, steeles and walsh, middle distance racing would be dead in the north.

As for 50/50 dogs needing to make 25k, thats pretty far fetched odds when you break down what everything is worth per day per dog. If you are wanting to make a substantial profit out of your owners, than id hope you arent getting that much of the prize money.

 

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21 minutes ago, Rules For Some said:

The north lacks alot of depth, especially as one big trainer is gone, Clark has cut down his numbers, and walsh doesnt have the same numbers she once did either. Craiks are the only trainers still racing a large group of dogs and the other trainers listed have come into fill the gap.

 Id say the best northern trainers personally would be walsh, craiks, ferguson, udy/cottam and 5th probably goes to steeles.

Especially as without udy/cottam, steeles and walsh, middle distance racing would be dead in the north.

As for 50/50 dogs needing to make 25k, thats pretty far fetched odds when you break down what everything is worth per day per dog. If you are wanting to make a substantial profit out of your owners, than id hope you arent getting that much of the prize money.

 

Personally I'd love to be a fly on the wall if you rang Craik and said you've got a dog for him to train on 50/50 and it will win about $12k a year!!!!!!!!! Even more so if you suggested you had another one that should earn $25k a year but your not prepared to split that stakes 50/50!!!!!

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OGC.e2e6137e062f0efebcd48c694579589a&pid=Api&rurl=https%3a%2f%2fmedia.giphy.com%2fmedia%2f14gjmr7pDMzPXy%2fgiphy.gif&ehk=Xn14ASs4DyEhCEq7AOo84w

 

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3 hours ago, bus stop said:

Gary you need to take into account when making comments of who the top northern trainers are the likes of the class of dog they have access to either dogs that are bought by owners who can  afford to out lay the dollars or have the breeding set up to produce litters which gives them a better chance of getting good dogs to train. There are a number of trainers in the north who I view do a excellent job with the type of dog they race. Keeping in mind that a number of them are racing 2nd tier dogs from the 2 biggest breeders in NZ. Gary cant undersatnd how you left the Craiks off your list they have been one if not one of the best trainers in the North for the last 30 odd years.

Anyway Gary I fear for the future of the northern region as there are not enough the younger generation taking  it on the costs of land etc to set up is just to much and the money is not there to meet comitments.

Also the board are making far reaching decesions which will come back and bite them in the ass i.e. import fees which I feel they are being leaned on by outside influences.

Sorry didn't think about Craik last night as my brain was half asleep but yes you are right I should have added them to both lists.

I do agree with you Bus that all the trainers up here no matter how big or small they are do a very good job with looking after their dogs & if I was to get any more when I can afford it I'd have no problems getting any of them to train them for me.

An other name I forgot to add to the younger generation list is Codlin. Even tho he is a small trainer with only a few dogs he's doing well with them.

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11 hours ago, bus stop said:

Gary you need to take into account when making comments of who the top northern trainers are the likes of the class of dog they have access to either dogs that are bought by owners who can  afford to out lay the dollars or have the breeding set up to produce litters which gives them a better chance of getting good dogs to train. There are a number of trainers in the north who I view do a excellent job with the type of dog they race. Keeping in mind that a number of them are racing 2nd tier dogs from the 2 biggest breeders in NZ. Gary cant undersatnd how you left the Craiks off your list they have been one if not one of the best trainers in the North for the last 30 odd years.

Anyway Gary I fear for the future of the northern region as there are not enough the younger generation taking  it on the costs of land etc to set up is just to much and the money is not there to meet comitments.

Also the board are making far reaching decesions which will come back and bite them in the ass i.e. import fees which I feel they are being leaned on by outside influences.

 

11 hours ago, bus stop said:

Gary you need to take into account when making comments of who the top northern trainers are the likes of the class of dog they have access to either dogs that are bought by owners who can  afford to out lay the dollars or have the breeding set up to produce litters which gives them a better chance of getting good dogs to train. There are a number of trainers in the north who I view do a excellent job with the type of dog they race. Keeping in mind that a number of them are racing 2nd tier dogs from the 2 biggest breeders in NZ. Gary cant undersatnd how you left the Craiks off your list they have been one if not one of the best trainers in the North for the last 30 odd years.

Anyway Gary I fear for the future of the northern region as there are not enough the younger generation taking  it on the costs of land etc to set up is just to much and the money is not there to meet comitments.

Also the board are making far reaching decesions which will come back and bite them in the ass i.e. import fees which I feel they are being leaned on by outside influences.

Interesting I would have said that from that list of trainers the majority of the dogs they all raced are bred, reared & trained by themselves so a fairly even depth of dog available to each of them.  The quality of broodie/sire is of personal choice ( we all have different opinions on what is a “good bloodline”) after that I imagine it’s the quality of food and effort they put into them to get the end result.

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