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Fartoomuch

Sales Time

91 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

We look forward to seeing Brodie on the buyers sheet tom:D because hes always right and on the money.Well that's according to him.

I thought Fartoomuchlying said he wouldn't lower himself to personal insults.

Oh well. 

 

 

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Looking at th1e trotter sale it seemed good. Unfortunately for Auckland t.c I could only see  4 likely to head north which is where the problem is as far as horse numbers go.i got 1.auckland committee must be very worried for future numbers.

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I checked the results yesterday and it looked like about 40 bought by n island. If you extrapolate that to numbers racing in 3 years time the outlook is grim. I 5hink the problem is trainers outside the top 3 or 4 have no owners to buy for.it makes me wonder about the survival of a good number of trainers.really good trainers like s Reid didn' buy a horse.

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6 minutes ago, tim vince said:

I could only see  4 likely to head north which is where the problem is as far as horse numbers go.i got 1.auckland committee must be very worried for future number

Do committee's such as Auckland or HRNZ keep track of horse sales and where horses might end up racing for future planning purposes?

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11 minutes ago, tim vince said:

I checked the results yesterday and it looked like about 40 bought by n island. If you extrapolate that to numbers racing in 3 years time the outlook is grim. I 5hink the problem is trainers outside the top 3 or 4 have no owners to buy for.it makes me wonder about the survival of a good number of trainers.really good trainers like s Reid didn' buy a horse.

Im hearing you but some of them have burnt too many bridges with previous owners. As the saying goes when the flag drops the bullshit stops.

Trotting sales is better than a few thought and wow - no AS purchases that i can see. Was told MP has left town for Ozzie.

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Prob don' keep records but should.seems obvious to me u have to look ahead like all businesses.as far as owners returning to the game I wouldn' be optimistic. Bad experiences in trotting are like going to a bad restaurant. Hard to get customer back.

 

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3 minutes ago, tim vince said:

Prob don' keep records but should.seems obvious to me u have to look ahead like all businesses.as far as owners returning to the game I wouldn' be optimistic. Bad experiences in trotting are like going to a bad restaurant. Hard to get customer back.

 

Indeed , but company running sales don't exactly exude sale stats if you look at their website. Light years behind the opposition IMHO.

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25 minutes ago, tim vince said:

I checked the results yesterday and it looked like about 40 bought by n island. If you extrapolate that to numbers racing in 3 years time the outlook is grim. I 5hink the problem is trainers outside the top 3 or 4 have no owners to buy for.it makes me wonder about the survival of a good number of trainers.really good trainers like s Reid didn' buy a horse.

Geoff Small was buying upwards of 10 horses a decade ago and doing a decent job.

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2 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Brodie,

You said 'every' so the point is being made that it is not 'every.' Your words have been taken out of the obvious context that you delivered them with as anybody would know it is not 'every' It is only done to needle you.

That context being the All Stars win so 'many' group races that it is difficult to justify big outlays of money for the chance to run into the Blue Army. That is not the Blue Army's fault and it is the challenge to many trainers to up their game for sure but shelling out large amounts of money for the unattractive prospect of meeting 6 Purdon horses in the Jewels in the present climate we have at the moment is not appealing for the second tier of buyers with enough money to buy very good yearlings. 

You are quite correct in saying it is not worth debating because you can't debate it when you get calculated responses like that, let alone win. You will only get brodnonsense or bordie thrown back at you. When in fact, this could one of the most interesting debates on here. The point was made that nothing was done for vendors or the sale in 35 years. Now, I wouldn't know if that was right or not, but the very fact that is being bandied about is frightening. 35 years ago is about 1 million years ago with all the technological advances that have been made.

What can be done? Who is has ultimate control of the sales? Is there a long-term contract with the runners of the sale? Are they up with modern methods of bidding? Is Winston interested in Harness Racing? What would happen in a year or two if the economy was hit by a recession especially if sales this year turn out to be a flop in good economic conditions? What effect will poor sales have on Auckland's big new plans? will Auckland have horses in 2 or 3 years time? Will it force more trainers over to Australia?

People on here know more than me so will be watching for answers.

Thanks Happy I did know the point that he was trying to make.

I think you will find that the AllStars did win almost every 3year old group race Last year that they were in!

For years and years they have dominated all the big stakes races and no one can deny that!

If Kotare Hunter thinks he is clever by being a smart arse then I can’t be bothered even replying to the clown.

As for the future of breeding horses to put in the yearling sales, they will need to be the top of the top as the catalogue appears to be as strong as ever and yet Auckland was very disappointing.

 

Will be interesting to see how the Chch pacing section goes but I beleive that it will be totally dominated by the leading stables and the smaller stables will get the less commercial and that is why harness racing is going to continue to struggle.

As a financial venture racing horses is a loss making venture and anyone that respects their hard earned will be investing in something else, but not Bitcoin!

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Trotting sale strong as no AS dominating races or as we noted not appearing on the buyer board .

Auckland sales I counted a total of 15 purdon or purdon stable supporters  yearling purchases while I think Dunn next at 4 .

The average buyer is saying they take the cream and no fairytale stories to get them excited so they have given up .

Then we get PGG doing what they did 30 years ago -

Where was the advertising to get new 30-40 year old buyers - Radio like Edge etc ( not ZB etc )?

Where was the articles about hero horses like Lazurus bought from the sales put in front of the 30 year old etc?

Where is promoting the dream of owning a horse and the fun with it?

Where is the push by PGW for MET Club to get its finger out of its -     ar .. e and get syndicates running again for new owners in etc . We need a new sales promotion- go to the advertising gurus to sort something .

The blood of Auckland will continue tomorrow as the trotting breed is the present favoured type as no AS competition.

My humble view .

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14 minutes ago, LongOwner said:

Auckland sales I counted a total of 15 purdon or purdon stable supporters  yearling purchases while I think Dunn next at 4 .

The average buyer is saying they take the cream and no fairytale stories to get them excited so they have given up .

It is a big barrier to overcome when you see them buying up and then you add in the prospect of the Purdon / Rasmussen expertise. Has to be a turn off to buyers.

Sign me up for those trotters though. Why wouldn't you?

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Help me understand where this "AllStars" nonsense came from. Self-promoting hubris by Purdon? fawning Guerin media-speak? fan labelling?. Sure, they have "stars" on their colours, but that is interspersed with a blue background, but then there is some history in the industry with the colour blue I guess.

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33 minutes ago, LongOwner said:

Trotting sale strong as no AS dominating races or as we noted not appearing on the buyer board .

Auckland sales I counted a total of 15 purdon or purdon stable supporters  yearling purchases while I think Dunn next at 4 .

The average buyer is saying they take the cream and no fairytale stories to get them excited so they have given up .

Then we get PGG doing what they did 30 years ago -

Where was the advertising to get new 30-40 year old buyers - Radio like Edge etc ( not ZB etc )?

Where was the articles about hero horses like Lazurus bought from the sales put in front of the 30 year old etc?

Where is promoting the dream of owning a horse and the fun with it?

Where is the push by PGW for MET Club to get its finger out of its -     ar .. e and get syndicates running again for new owners in etc . We need a new sales promotion- go to the advertising gurus to sort something .

The blood of Auckland will continue tomorrow as the trotting breed is the present favoured type as no AS competition.

My humble view .

Problem is many 30 or 40 year olds struggle to afford to live, let alone have a bet.  So horse ownership is out of the question for most

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34 minutes ago, Booby Bec said:

Problem is many 30 or 40 year olds struggle to afford to live, let alone have a bet.  So horse ownership is out of the question for most

A concerted and nationwide syndication effort  based on limited costs for participants is the only way for anyway with restricted means. Is there potential there?

I see the Canadian guru is out in NZ so they should pick his brain. Maybe take a leaf out of Westview's book who resides here and syndicates horses his way?

Who has the capability to get this up and running or has it all been tried before?

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1 hour ago, Booby Bec said:

Problem is many 30 or 40 year olds struggle to afford to live, let alone have a bet.  So horse ownership is out of the question for most

Quite correct......and its not as if the horses start racing next week.

The costs start on the fall of the hammer ,GST is added and they never stop.Many horses don't race at two so its close to two years before they race.

Do the numbers on any sale price...add em up....then deduct the winnings ,maybe $4k net if you win at Cambridge type meeting.

Its kind of demoralising.

Even at Alex Park ,where the stakes are much better it takes several wins to break even[ every season and thats unlikely] and even with smaller fields its still dash hard to win there cos its not racing like with like.

Its an expensive hobby .

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2 hours ago, Booby Bec said:

Problem is many 30 or 40 year olds struggle to afford to live, let alone have a bet.  So horse ownership is out of the question for most

PGGWrightsons need to pull their fingers out. Its just money for jam for them. No advertising which is terrible with what they charge. APG sales are looking so much more professional than NZ now.  A small gesture but appreciated for sure is all sale horses are given a very nice halter to travel home in. A lot of the small breeders are not GST registered so like Aussie not GST reg no GST on the sale of the horse. Whoops sorry. PGG give you a free pen....and what pisses me off the most..they ALWAYS give the better bred yearlings longer in the ring. New blood is required for our auctioneers and new blood is required in HRNZ...These people are all dictating the terms. They would be up shits creek without a paddle if there were no horses to sell or race which the way Harness Racing is going in NZ could be sooner than we all think... 

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3 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

It is a big barrier to overcome when you see them buying up and then you add in the prospect of the Purdon / Rasmussen expertise. Has to be a turn off to buyers.

Sign me up for those trotters though. Why wouldn't you?

The trotters sale looks to have been good but on a day where all the pacers were paraded  (today) why was there a meeting at manawatu , are there going hardly any central districts trainers bothered about going Wednesday (can they afford to go and purchase someting ) ? 

Sales format ? Gonna been hard to make a quick  decision to bid or not if you have not looked (type and conformation) at a yearling and a perceive bargain is up for grabs (page). 10am start: no break 6.30 finish. 8.5 hours is a long day !

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8 hours ago, Browsing said:

PGGWrightsons need to pull their fingers out. Its just money for jam for them. No advertising which is terrible with what they charge. APG sales are looking so much more professional than NZ now.  A small gesture but appreciated for sure is all sale horses are given a very nice halter to travel home in. A lot of the small breeders are not GST registered so like Aussie not GST reg no GST on the sale of the horse. Whoops sorry. PGG give you a free pen....and what pisses me off the most..they ALWAYS give the better bred yearlings longer in the ring. New blood is required for our auctioneers and new blood is required in HRNZ...These people are all dictating the terms. They would be up shits creek without a paddle if there were no horses to sell or race which the way Harness Racing is going in NZ could be sooner than we all think... 

I'm right with you re PGG Wrightson , on the plus side Paul Davies is not anywhere near the rostrum these days. Lagan and Bayliss have been there for decades on the pigs back so agree its time for new blood and updating sales presentation to 21st century standards.You can only milk the 10% so much and even less so if you run an amateur operation

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There is much comment on trainers not buying because they don't have any owners. They need to get their act together. I was at the Auckland sales all day and know most of the northern trainers, some well others byway of acknowledgement. The only trainer who tried to talk me into a horse was Tim Vince. I and 3 friends accepted. The bulk of trainers act like beneficiaries  when a Labour Government is elected - waiting with their hands out.

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Great to see Tim actually buy some young horses, rather than other trainers castoffs.

He does an amazing job with his hasbeens so I am sure he will be winning with the new ones!

If you can win so many with KD Hall and his other South Island cheapies, either Tim is a genius or North a Island Racing is very weak!!!!

 

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1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Great to see Tim actually buy some young horses, rather than other trainers castoffs.

He does an amazing job with his hasbeens so I am sure he will be winning with the new ones!

If you can win so many with KD Hall and his other South Island cheapies, either Tim is a genius or North a Island Racing is very weak!!!!

 

Tim has been buying at the sales for quite some time......probably even before you were a Foetus !

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5 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

Tim has been buying at the sales for quite some time......probably even before you were a Foetus !

Tasman, yes he was but was he actually training them or other trainers?

The ones he has been racing in recent years successfully have been cheapies passed their best!

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