Another promising horse gone

[nomates 3,616]

Sergent Major , impressive winner of the 2yo race at Trentham a couple of Saturdays ago has been sold , sold to Ozzie Kheir for a 7 figure sum , runs in the Sires Produce on Saturday the xferes to Waller or Maher . 

For all the increase in stakes money it is disappointing that it isn't stopping good horses being sold offshore .

What more can be done to retain these horses ?

 

 

[Ponderosa8 1,366]

Hard to turn down a 7 figure sum irrespective of the stakes increases here.

[nomates 3,616]

2 hours ago, Ponderosa8 said:

Hard to turn down a 7 figure sum irrespective of the stakes increases here.

I agree , but is there anything that can slow it down , if not then we are wasting our time letting the stakes get too high otherwise it is just a feast for one or two horses each season . 

[Ponderosa8 1,366]

11 minutes ago, nomates said:

I agree , but is there anything that can slow it down , if not then we are wasting our time letting the stakes get too high otherwise it is just a feast for one or two horses each season . 

We would slow it down if our Saturday "standard" races were worth A$170k (NZ$ equivalent) and the Group and Listed races worth even more. Then more horses would stay here and NZ trainers would (probably) buy the better horses at Karaka and the like knowing that they're racing for the same amount as on offer in Australia. And keeping the better horses in NZ should mean the feast for one or two horses should increase to heaps more horses each season (in theory).

Yes I know my answer is really stupid because races worth that much here aren't going to happen.... so sorry I don't really have an answer..

[nomates 3,616]

20 minutes ago, Ponderosa8 said:

We would slow it down if our Saturday "standard" races were worth A$170k (NZ$ equivalent) and the Group and Listed races worth even more. Then more horses would stay here and NZ trainers would (probably) buy the better horses at Karaka and the like knowing that they're racing for the same amount as on offer in Australia. And keeping the better horses in NZ should mean the feast for one or two horses should increase to heaps more horses each season (in theory).

Yes I know my answer is really stupid because races worth that much here aren't going to happen.... so sorry I don't really have an answer..

And there is the conundrum , do they do something like that and hope that is what happens , but it would cost a lot of money before the numbers climbed to make it worthwhile . 

The first thing they have to do IMO is get the numbers bred each season dramatically increased , as in doubled at least , and then get a lot more people involved in ownership .

Both would require huge incentives to get people involved , many people have left the game and have vowed to not get involved again through bad treatment . And the biggest damage has been done by a lot of those people telling their stories of poor treatment , the same with many people involved working in racing , badly treated in many different ways and they have made sure their kids don't get involved and their friends get the same stories , hence our struggle to get young people into the industry .

We as an industry very much stand back and wait for the young to come to us instead of being pro active and getting our story out to the young and their families that things have changed dramatically . 

[Insider 3,974]

5 hours ago, nomates said:

Sergent Major , impressive winner of the 2yo race at Trentham a couple of Saturdays ago has been sold , sold to Ozzie Kheir for a 7 figure sum , runs in the Sires Produce on Saturday the xferes to Waller or Maher . 

For all the increase in stakes money it is disappointing that it isn't stopping good horses being sold offshore .

What more can be done to retain these horses ?

 

 

A few of points Nomates that I think influenced the sale.

1] The horse was owned by a single guy who has been in racing a long time so certainly knows the risk verses reward.

2] To survive in racing you need a big return now and again, then you can go again, and $1 million is a decent amount to keep one going in the future.

3] If the horse was owned by a syndicate then my guess is that he would have stayed here.

Therefore if you want the good ones to stay here, make sure that the there are a number of owners in the partnership. In fact the more the merrier, say 20 as 50K wont change a lot of lives if they can already afford a racehorse!

[nomates 3,616]

3 minutes ago, Insider said:

A few of points Nomates that I think influenced the sale.

1] The horse was owned by a single guy who has been in racing a long time so certainly knows the risk verses reward.

2] To survive in racing you need a big return now and again, then you can go again, and $1 million is a decent amount to keep one going in the future.

3] If the horse was owned by a syndicate then my guess is that he would have stayed here.

Therefore if you want the good ones to stay here, make sure that the there are a number of owners in the partnership. In fact the more the merrier, say 20 as 50K wont change a lot of lives if they can already afford a racehorse!

Haha , never said I would have turned the offer down , I completely understand , I just can't see the stakes changing things so we end up with mostly average horses racing for great stakes .

Maybe that's not that bad , if it's sustainable .

[Leggy 4,099]

44 minutes ago, nomates said:

getting our story out to the young and their families that things have changed dramatically . 

Have they? How?

[nomates 3,616]

31 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Have they? How?

Your catching Dougs disease . 

Christ you've just posted something elsewhere regarding a trainer/ owner contract , well they now have the same for staff , for one . 

 

[nomates 3,616]

36 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Have they? How?

Maybe then you can post some data as to why the industry isn't attracting as many young NZers as they used to .

I've heard the stories , I've seen the shite that staff used to have to take , working exorbitant hours , sexism , racism , bullying , not being paid for working on public holidays or getting time in lieu . I used to do my best to ensure that didn't happen where ever I was , I certainly didn't take any shit and done my best to protect others .

I have known and still know people who had to deal with that stuff and have got out and been happy to tell others to stay away . 

I have also helped youngsters get a foot into the industry by getting them into reputable establishments and giving them advice on how to deal with any of the above if it happened to them . 

Those are changes that have been made but I don't see them being publicized to entice youngsters into the sport .

[Pheroz 99]

I agree working hours in this industry can be challenging and without appeal to many younger people especially those not from a rural background.

Like any other industry the conditions and environment offered by the employer will attract and retain good young people. I see first hand a number of those young staff that have a love of the horse and their work and do it with a smile on their face. The industry offers something more than a job, it wont appeal to some but for others it can be a lifetime.

I feel greatly encouraged by industry progress recently, Coolmore has sent Paddington to Windsor Park, that says Coolmore has confidence in our industry. It may only be for a few seasons but lets acknowledge it when we can.

Entain are playing the long game , its a 25 year agreement, if they continue to perform as they have in their first year we have to be on a winner.

Where will we be in 5 years? I think in a much better place than where we were headed before they came on board.

[mckenzie 608]

We produce world class horses but our local racing industry is lacking stars because the cream of every crop bred here gets exported. Even top NZ owned horses (Imperatriz, I Wish I Win etc) are now essentially Australian trained and won't race here ever again. As with most things, it comes down to a business decision. And racing in Australia is too lucrative to stay away from.

[nomates 3,616]

To show that there has been a shift in the thinking of most modern trainers , how often do you now hear a trainer after a win thanking and bigging up his staff and giving the kudos for the success as much as themselves . It's a reasonably new phenomenon but shows the mind shift . It was unheard of up until a few years ago , even now tho you can pick the trainers that are stuck in the past .

A while back I heard Westbury stud talking about the structures and remuneration they had put in place to retain their staff and I'm sure that all the other top outfits are doing the same . 

These sort of changes are a million miles away from what used to be the norm .

This started discussing getting more owners involved and the way many have been treated over the years from trainers , administrators and racing clubs and even head office has driven many away from the sport and left a bitter taste and many are not short on relaying their treatment .

Different areas of racing but all are aligned and something major has to change to get more people into the industry . Is that going to happen ?

[pogo(aus) 888]

9 hours ago, nomates said:

Sergent Major , impressive winner of the 2yo race at Trentham a couple of Saturdays ago has been sold , sold to Ozzie Kheir for a 7 figure sum , runs in the Sires Produce on Saturday the xferes to Waller or Maher . 

For all the increase in stakes money it is disappointing that it isn't stopping good horses being sold offshore .

What more can be done to retain these horses ?

 

 

zelda is good at math$ and says if this horse wins One Million dollars .............https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/00f2e7eb-8e6d-4e88-9a4b-c16b263a8e0a

the new owner will still not even be sqaure , n0?

good luck.

 

[Leggy 4,099]

6 hours ago, nomates said:

Your catching Dougs disease . 

Christ you've just posted something elsewhere regarding a trainer/ owner contract , well they now have the same for staff , for one . 

 

I was simply asking what you saw as dramatic changes. Not sure what you mean by "the same for staff"? An employment agreement?

[Pam Robson 1,551]

17 hours ago, nomates said:

Sergent Major , impressive winner of the 2yo race at Trentham a couple of Saturdays ago has been sold , sold to Ozzie Kheir for a 7 figure sum , runs in the Sires Produce on Saturday the xferes to Waller or Maher . 

For all the increase in stakes money it is disappointing that it isn't stopping good horses being sold offshore .

What more can be done to retain these horses ?

 

 

In short - improve programming/date structure,  fix tracks,  and upgrade jockey standards.

Has been thrashed around here and elsewhere, but all the money currently thrown around [ and it is great for the beleaguered owner/trainer, make no mistake about that ]  as the headpost states, isn't stopping nice horses being sold offshore.

Also mentioned here and elsewhere, throwing money at a flawed business model isn't overly clever.

[nomates 3,616]

6 hours ago, Leggy said:

I was simply asking what you saw as dramatic changes. Not sure what you mean by "the same for staff"? An employment agreement?

There is now supposed to be a contract between trainer and employee .

I thought you still had a hand in the game .

I don't know where you worked but I know when I was on the studs thru the 80s , in the season I worked 6 1/2 days a week , if we got a quiet day maybe 1 or 2 of us would get a break . My wage never changed from off season to breeding season , a lot of days I often got up for a 6am serving with one of the stallions and still doing the same at 7pm or 8pm .

Wouldn't happen now , as stated Westbury Stud has 40hour contracts with guaranteed days off , overtime ? I think , all the things that you get in normal working places . All done to retain good staff , and they say it is working . I know of one young lady , the daughter of a friend who wanted to get in to the industry and I gave some help and advice , who now goes back to Westbury every sales series . 

Even in that area if you don't see that as a dramatic change then I give up .

 

[Mattski 176]

I agree it's somewhat sad that a lot of our promising horses get sold.  But there is a positive side to this also right. There is a good market for the Kiwi product. This flows back to other players like the studs eh

[Leggy 4,099]

56 minutes ago, nomates said:

There is now supposed to be a contract between trainer and employee .

I thought you still had a hand in the game .

I don't know where you worked but I know when I was on the studs thru the 80s , in the season I worked 6 1/2 days a week , if we got a quiet day maybe 1 or 2 of us would get a break . My wage never changed from off season to breeding season , a lot of days I often got up for a 6am serving with one of the stallions and still doing the same at 7pm or 8pm .

Wouldn't happen now , as stated Westbury Stud has 40hour contracts with guaranteed days off , overtime ? I think , all the things that you get in normal working places . All done to retain good staff , and they say it is working . I know of one young lady , the daughter of a friend who wanted to get in to the industry and I gave some help and advice , who now goes back to Westbury every sales series . 

Even in that area if you don't see that as a dramatic change then I give up .

 

That's all been a legal requirement since the Employment Contracts Act 2000. Significant change maybe, but over two decades ago. I certainly had them  back then when I had paid employees.

[nomates 3,616]

1 minute ago, Leggy said:

That's all been a legal requirement since the Employment Contracts Act 2000. Significant change maybe, but over two decades ago. I certainly had them then when I had paid employees.

I have worked for a number of trainers since 2000 and never once did I have a contract nor  anybody else that worked there , for some reason racing and trainers were a law unto themselves , they could do contracts but chose not to , I could look after myself , many couldn't and got abused for it .

Because of the shortage of good staff the smart trainers have worked it out that you look after them , some still not so smart .

[Shad 1,559]

Hard to refuse those big offers, bird in hand in all, all very well chasing those big stakes in the lucky country, but of course you've got to win those races, no easy feat, as everyone else had the same idea.

[Nerula 1,403]

Turn it around the other way anyone paying a Million is making a hell of a punt. The horse would have to earn over 1.5M to be ahead. 

There is always the inherent frailty of the modern Tb as well to factor in.

[Hi Ho Silver 786]

A couple of comments I'd like to make.

Firstly, well done on.a brilliant sale.  Selling to Aussie is not new and a very much needed part of racing.

About the contracts to protect the worker, let us not forget that sometimes the trainer or studmaster needs protecting too.  Not every worker who walks through the gate is worth keeping.  A bad worker can be very difficult to shift.

For anyone not happy with the direction this industry is going I trust you have done at least one term on a racing club (or other affilliate) committee, and non-paid to boot.  Decisions are rarely made by one person and until you have experienced the committee decision you may be unaware of the difficulties involved.

[We're Doomed 4,879]

Anyone even contemplating turning down a $1m+ offer for a relatively untired horse needs only to be told one word;: Kinane.

[Insider 3,974]

13 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

Anyone even contemplating turning down a $1m+ offer for a relatively untired horse needs only to be told one word;: Kinane.

Yes. Friends had a small share in him but it all went wrong.