Iraklis

Geez What The Hell....

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Does me mighty SouthCoast have to do to get a decent draw (Cambridge Thurs), the great gods of the draws have forsaken him, again. But, Treacherous on the other hand is in this up to his eyeballs¬†ūüėܬ†should be a ripper of a race....ooh bugger,¬†tiz guna be a worry for the Bolt (in the Trot) from out there, and I hope mighty Tempey gets some of it, kind thought he may headin for a break he's been workin hard both sides of the ditch....

 

Cheers Iraklis

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Both races are preferential barrier draws. The pacers Flying mile has historically been PB but the trotters race, which for decades was run on Christmas Eve, was formerly a random draw. I guess by making group races preferential they hope more lower rated horses might consider taking on the champs. But in the case of the trotters, local trainers know the 3 top all fly from the gate so R60s would be in for a hiding.

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Yeh Nellie, I never saw the preferential draw thing, just saw me mighty Coast had a shit marble again; agree in the Trotters, bein only small field not sure¬†it'll make much diff but in the Pacers me boys might have to break a sweat¬†ūüėܬ†still reckon they'll be ripper races to watch.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

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3 minutes ago, hsvman said:

Group races shouldn’t have pref draws, group races are what people strive to get horses in and then to penalise  the better ones with bad draws is a disgrace an also gives some horses and advantage to gain the important black type status  

Agreed , but you can see they between a rock and hard place.

The overall strategy to retain that second tier of good horses seems a reasonable idea but now  likely the idea of herding all the top horses into one area for the big stakes will still most likely result in the big spoils being shared among the top few while that next tier gets very little .

Hence the huge urge to sell the good but 'not quite' horse.

The Group races this weekend show this in the numbers......no one likes to see their horse just there to make up numbers as canon fodder.

Preferential drawers can help the second tier get in the places with luck.

I see the the FFA at Addington has changed conditions to 'just' make up the field. They exclude Group 1 winners , then add conditions of less than $100 k earnings AND not won a race this year.A fiddle !

Bigger stakes for Intermediate grade horses will help retain horses and ensure good size fields.

Back in the day , champs like Cardigan Bay and Lordship faced many difficult tasks because of 36 to 60 yard handicaps.But punters now demand mobiles.

Few would tolerate Lord Module types standing on the mark refusing to budge.

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23 hours ago, hsvman said:

Group races shouldn’t have pref draws, group races are what people strive to get horses in and then to penalise  the better ones with bad draws is a disgrace an also gives some horses and advantage to gain the important black type status

Well that's like saying gallopers shouldn't get 'weight' for winning to even things up and give all a chance.

Sundees Son being near the best trotter of all time in NZ, is getting 'Giveaways ' with No Handicap in the Rowe Cup or Dominion Handicap anymore , and is just burying the opponents off the front for past 2 years now. And will be $1.10 in Rowe Cup this year no doubt. NO CHance of opponents gaining 'Black' Type whatsoever.

You have to have some sort of handicap / pref draw system to give some others a chance?. the racing just 'owned ' by a very few if you do not. 

Sundee's Son and Self Assured are proving it in the Big Group races already. must be short odds Sundee winning both trots (yet again)  and Self Assured both Akld and NZ Cups????

e.g.   Self Assured should of been off 10m in the last NZ Cup IMO after winning 2020 Cup , and off the front in the Auckland Cup coming up soon it's impossible to bet against him. 

 

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So we make the all blacks win by 20points otherwise they lose   when they play anyone ?  Or make usain bolt start from 10m behind . The best events should be open to everyone but also should   Be open for everyone to start with exactly the same luck in the draw.  It’s bad enough the pref draws every other week but when it’s black type races ffa conditions should be permanent no penalties for. Being the best of the bunch. I’ve never had a horse good enough to affect by this but I love watching the best be the best . When they start getting penalised for being the best in big races is a joke 

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2 minutes ago, hsvman said:

So we make the all blacks win by 20points otherwise they lose   when they play anyone ?  Or make usain bolt start from 10m behind . The best events should be open to everyone but also should   Be open for everyone to start with exactly the same luck in the draw.  It’s bad enough the pref draws every other week but when it’s black type races ffa conditions should be permanent no penalties for. Being the best of the bunch. I’ve never had a horse good enough to affect by this but I love watching the best be the best . When they start getting penalised for being the best in big races is a joke 

I know what you're saying . And fair enough. You like FFA's . they've always been a great thing with all runners a chance of drawing one.

BUT, I feel you can't do that all the time. Gallopers have to get weight handicap for Melbourne Cup. Plenty of TOP horses have come off handicaps to win NZ Cup (to many to list)

Nowadays as a Standing start FFA VERY FEW horse are a chance of winning it. I thought Self Assured was a Special last year. (will win it this year) unless Copy That beats him again lol........

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2 hours ago, Pure Steel said:

Well that's like saying gallopers shouldn't get 'weight' for winning to even things up and give all a chance.

Sundees Son being near the best trotter of all time in NZ, is getting 'Giveaways ' with No Handicap in the Rowe Cup or Dominion Handicap anymore , and is just burying the opponents off the front for past 2 years now. And will be $1.10 in Rowe Cup this year no doubt. NO CHance of opponents gaining 'Black' Type whatsoever.

You have to have some sort of handicap / pref draw system to give some others a chance?. the racing just 'owned ' by a very few if you do not. 

Sundee's Son and Self Assured are proving it in the Big Group races already. must be short odds Sundee winning both trots (yet again)  and Self Assured both Akld and NZ Cups????

e.g.   Self Assured should of been off 10m in the last NZ Cup IMO after winning 2020 Cup , and off the front in the Auckland Cup coming up soon it's impossible to bet against him. 

 

What rubbish

Why pick a Handicap at the gallops as your measuring stick?

Why not the Cox Plate at WFA?

As other posters have suggested, do you think France should start at -10 in their World Cup games next year?

If not, why not?

No Group race should be a Handicap or a PBD, it's about finding the best

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2 minutes ago, Mikie said:

What rubbish

Why pick a Handicap at the gallops as your measuring stick?

Why not the Cox Plate at WFA?

As other posters have suggested, do you think France should start at -10 in their World Cup games next year?

If not, why not?

No Group race should be a Handicap or a PBD, it's about finding the best

Just sayiing Mikie ....

Call it rubbish if you want .

I'm a traditionist and loved seeing that Cardigan Bay and Lordship and PURE STEEL (3 wide off 10m handicap 1980 Interdominion the whole way 3rd) had to deal with a handicap .

The opposition of Sundees Son this year in Rowe Cup and Dominion have NO CHANCE . or do you differ in opinion to that ????

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Perhaps with our reducing horse populations we need to rethink our Group races. Group 1 races are meant to be the best of the best from the whole country (and possibly from Aussie). IMO these should always be FFA. But when it comes to G2 races, some don't even attract horses out of the region, let alone across the Cook Strait. We need aspirational races for the top 10% of horses around the country so I'm not for downgrading them. But some handicapping is sensible so more of those top 10% have a real chance. Else they will continue to make one way trips out of NZ 

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13 hours ago, Pure Steel said:

Just sayiing Mikie ....

Call it rubbish if you want .

I'm a traditionist and loved seeing that Cardigan Bay and Lordship and PURE STEEL (3 wide off 10m handicap 1980 Interdominion the whole way 3rd) had to deal with a handicap .

The opposition of Sundees Son this year in Rowe Cup and Dominion have NO CHANCE . or do you differ in opinion to that ????

I wouldn't say no chance at all, but he would be my clear top pick of course

Your point is?

I can't get your argument, it seems to be that if there is a really good horse he shouldn't be allowed to win the top races ....  or at least your argument is we should make it really really tough on him to win the best races

You didn't reply to my question about France...what say you?

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7 hours ago, Mikie said:

I can't get your argument, it seems to be that if there is a really good horse he shouldn't be allowed to win the top races ....  or at least your argument is we should make it really really tough on him to win the best races

You didn't reply to my question about France...what say you?

If there's a really good horse , he shoud have to give the others weight (as Melbourne Cup has done for a century +) and Handicaps for the Top Pacers and Trotters (like has been done in the NZ trotting Cup and Rowe Cup and Dominion Handicap until recently . Not much to get with the arguement really ....  Gives ALL Runners a chance. 

NZ Cup and Rowe Cup and Dominion and probably Auckland Cup DO NOT give all runners a chance anymore IMO. sorry if you can't understand . I would say a BIG yes , It should be tough for the best to win.. Sundees Son just a cakewalk drawn off front (again) this year in the 2 feature trots. Poor opponents have NO Chance really.

France rugby ?????  nothing to do with me mate  , go ask on the Rugby site what you think is best . not interested.   I'm talking about Pacers and trotters here.

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