Ratings system/Winners

[Mikie]

In writing this firstly let me point out that I fully agree with Tim Vince as regards the current Ratings System

I don't care for it and the sheer number of changes, trials and tweaking merely confirm it isn't working

However, with any system at all be it the previous class system or a Ratings system, or a $ based system, no matter what the system is there will still be the same number of winners today as there was yesterday unless more races are run

If New Zealand runs 2000 harness events there are 2000 winners

Under one system Tim might win 100 races, Eljay 20, Herlihy 50, Green 70 and so on and on

Changing the system might mean that Eljay's previously average horses (in terms of wins) suddenly can drop down and race poorer horses and instead of 20 Eljay might win 60 races (great effort Eljay)

But someone else must then train 40 less winners, so they won't be happy!

It sounds pretty simple, but I think most posters don't get it

You can never keep everyone happy

Mikie

[tim vince]

U r right but the idea was like with like and it is not happening.if we want to stop the big decline in north numbers wise the big rating spreads plus the fact the handicapping is rubbish will discourage more and more owners from participating. Should there be more racing.probablybut there is no dosh. Cheap racing with appropriate handicaps would help maybe.  I know I would race my moderate lot much more if that was the case. 2 wins  in quick  succession at Cambridge u get maybe 8k  clear and your life is over.same forbury  palmerston and grass etc etc. 

[Mikie]

I did say I agreed with you Tim!

Although there have been a couple of upsets lately there are races up North  where the Ratings spread is so wide that some horses are cannon fodder 

 

[tim vince]

More racing needed cheap Tuesday meetings at park .4k 2 to 3 point winner.justnot enough races.

[Mikie]

19 minutes ago, tim vince said:

More racing needed cheap Tuesday meetings at park .4k 2 to 3 point winner.justnot enough races.

Happy with your ideas

I haven’t got an answer to the underlying problem of just not enough horses up North

There was probably a time when, as a start, incentives could have been offered for younger trainers to setup up North but that now seems to be unrealistic given the uncertainty ascregards training venues and the loss that ATC will incur on their development

 

[eljay]

For some unknown reason Tim, the "we know bests" regard Alex Park as sacred territory and shudder when you suggest using the track other than for the bigger carnivals.      I'm sure Kumeu would love to run a meeting as you suggest for example possibly even one a month.      Why they have such a huge staff employed for so little racing beggars belief.     I may be wrong but a quick tally shows two meetings in January and 3 meetings in February, this being the holiday season.    The staff are surely earning their remuneration easily.      And I can't remember the last time they conducted trials or workouts there except for the odd race prior to their tote meetings and these solely only for 2 year olds.    Tim will know better than I but these babies really need to see the park (the big smoke) before competing seriously - so different to Pukekohe which is solely a few markers and an outside fence - no advertising hoardings for example.

[tim vince]

6 races 4k 2to 3 points for winner every 20 minutes.alex park Tuesday.whhy not. Alex park  would be the most underused track of its quality, location in the world.over 52 weeks prob 7 races a week..its nonsense.

 

[tim vince]

Lloyd when the buildings finish they won't have an excuse not to run trials.owners living in Auckland have to be mad to go to puke.traffic time.whats your pick trials or no trials at the park.mine is no.might affect the blues training considering how successful they are.football club or harness club

 

[tim vince]

Mike do hold a position of power. If not u should.prob send u crazy that will be side effect.

[Mikie]

54 minutes ago, tim vince said:

Mike do hold a position of power. If not u should.prob send u crazy that will be side effect.

My powerful days are gone Tim

I'm slowing down and that's on a good day

[Taku Umanga]

1 hour ago, tim vince said:

6 races 4k 2to 3 points for winner every 20 minutes.alex park Tuesday.whhy not. Alex park  would be the most underused track of its quality, location in the world.over 52 weeks prob 7 races a week..its nonsense.

 

Forget Tuesday - where are the horses and owners going to come from to battle Auckland traffic during the week for lesser stakes - they don't come now for the big dollars?

They should be racing there every Sunday during the day.

[eljay]

You can't solve the traffic problem any day of the week - Goff thought he could by taxation but either can't or wont so has either stockpiled all that money or used it for other things.    Within a year with the explosions at Pokeno, Paerata, Drury etc. traffic will be as bad to Pukekohe.    So simply, anywhere within cooee of the country's biggest area of population will always have traffic problems but of course that is where the population who we are trying to interest in the sport are domiciled 

[tim vince]

Sunday will do.any day but  more races.better hhandicapping

[eljay]

Church Tim, church  

[tasman man 11]

1 hour ago, eljay said:

Church Tim, church  

Plenty of rooms at Alex Park would be suitable for an inter-denom service before Trots start and surely some 'racing' priests or ministers can fit in a decent blessing. The new apartment owners will welcome it !

ATC has a magnificent asset there , in the city and it needs more use and hopefully the resulting income.Recent Aussie visitors to the Interdoms were in awe of the facility and its location.Read the comments about the state of Aussie Harness and many refer to the sad day trotting left the CITY locations of both Sydney and Melbourne and moved to the outback.Any Brisbane maybe following their lead.

Alex Park can easily run another weekly meeting for lower class horses...whether it a Tuesday or Sunday...as it has the infrastructure sitting there......a good TAB , and food and bar open 7 days.

But need the horses......Tim can supervise another 50 or so out at Kumeu while those thinking of getting out of Industry may get new lease of life.

The young people ,so badly needed ,will see extra opportunities etc etc etc

[lamour]

3 minutes ago, tasman man 11 said:

 

Recent Aussie visitors to the Interdoms were in awe of the facility and its location.

 

Not surprised Tasman.  Haven't been to Menangle but have been to Melton and was underwhelmed by the course.  I suspect the vast majority of Melbourne residents are unaware the Melton track exists.

[Ohokaman]

1 hour ago, tasman man 11 said:

Plenty of rooms at Alex Park would be suitable for an inter-denom service before Trots start and surely some 'racing' priests or ministers can fit in a decent blessing. The new apartment owners will welcome it !

ATC has a magnificent asset there , in the city and it needs more use and hopefully the resulting income.Recent Aussie visitors to the Interdoms were in awe of the facility and its location.Read the comments about the state of Aussie Harness and many refer to the sad day trotting left the CITY locations of both Sydney and Melbourne and moved to the outback.Any Brisbane maybe following their lead.

Alex Park can easily run another weekly meeting for lower class horses...whether it a Tuesday or Sunday...as it has the infrastructure sitting there......a good TAB , and food and bar open 7 days.

But need the horses......Tim can supervise another 50 or so out at Kumeu while those thinking of getting out of Industry may get new lease of life.

The young people ,so badly needed ,will see extra opportunities etc etc etc

Really TM...?? These “young people” haven’t been targetted correctly for the last ten years.....too many other options to spend money elsewhere.

[tasman man 11]

22 minutes ago, Ohokaman said:

Really TM...?? These “young people” haven’t been targetted correctly for the last ten years.....too many other options to spend money elsewhere.

Fair enough....I was really thinking of the Industry Youth especially the young drivers and maybe those hoping to be trainers.

Gotta feel for them....they get few drives and when the odd one gets a horse to train on their own account it seems to open their eyes to the enormity of the task and they head off to Australia ,possibly lost forever e.g. Jack McKinnon , Jacob Wallace ,Trent  Lethally etc etc from up north. Interesting the very enthusiastic Aussie group [ over 50 folk ] I chatted with over the Interdoms spoke of many similar issues in the harness scene over there.

The best thing Ive seen happen for a long time has been the emergence of  Boys Get Paid who have dabbled in Harness here. I read where they hope to attract well over $200k as a Betting pool for Karaka Gallops on Saturday.

That is very positive......amazing in fact.....top marks to them.

Without turnover the Industry is doomed.

[tim vince]

I think we have enough horses. A lot just won't race at park at the m9ment uncompetitive.cambridge horses are fine and  more likely to race more with more  suitable opportunities and suitable handicapping. 

[Ohokaman]

47 minutes ago, tasman man 11 said:

Fair enough....I was really thinking of the Industry Youth especially the young drivers and maybe those hoping to be trainers.

Gotta feel for them....they get few drives and when the odd one gets a horse to train on their own account it seems to open their eyes to the enormity of the task and they head off to Australia ,possibly lost forever e.g. Jack McKinnon , Jacob Wallace ,Trent  Lethally etc etc from up north. Interesting the very enthusiastic Aussie group [ over 50 folk ] I chatted with over the Interdoms spoke of many similar issues in the harness scene over there.

The best thing Ive seen happen for a long time has been the emergence of  Boys Get Paid who have dabbled in Harness here. I read where they hope to attract well over $200k as a Betting pool for Karaka Gallops on Saturday.

That is very positive......amazing in fact.....top marks to them.

Without turnover the Industry is doomed.

I see the Trittons are leaving Australia to set up in America....not happy with the Oz industry....

[tim vince]

Soul destroy g taking horses u know no chance.like with like yeah right.a trainer who has  had a couple of wins with average horse walked off the course saying never again.one of the greatest horseman ever said to me they trying to fuck the game and doing a good job. Who is who.lots of possibilities.

Is this what Alex park wants group horses killing shitters.a premiership winning trainer bailed me up .they forcing me out of the game.the handicapping system has to go.the 4 horse field  had an audience  of not many.saw one director Scott plant there.always is.some never come at all.sorry Derek balle was too.top men but the rest no sight of.didnt spot ceo either.bugger  me.this is serious shit 

[eljay]

Don't want to pull you up Tim but the new guy who they put in when Johnson "resigned" was there too.     But your point is valid.     None (or very few of them) seem to bother about racing and consider all members to be lepers.      Lone Star are saying in their facebook that they will be open for the Easter Show (they don't say which one, perhaps that is the catch) but I would think they will be one of the, if not the, biggest account the club will have in the retail part of the new development but I wonder just how closely they are keeping Lone Star fully informed as to the building project.    And the big court case is next month I believe.      Every year they say at the AGM all members will be kept fully up to date - well that's a line stolen from politicians and the outcomes are the same too.