Training fees

[fasthorse 57]

Lets accept what we have been told and summarise this .

Northern training fees are top of the range , CD probably $10 a day less and southern training fees are significantly less .

 

rdtdy has issues with my bonanza summary , it seems in the south my assessment is a little conservative , their lower costs and racing for the same stakes as the north is very good news for them , in the CD my assessment is close to the mark as demonstrated by my friends horse winning on Saturday , the $12,000 for winning a BM 65 is a great result .

In the North anyone choosing to pay extra will be a little disappointed  , on average , my assessment isn't to far astray .

 

What the real problem is ,  people don't like me stating facts , STAKES HAVE GONE UP .

I have never said the increases are enough  , every one involved in racing including those administrating racing agree they must increase further .

 

For those with some sort of a grudge against the "suits" accepting that stakes have gone up seems to be a tough ask .

 

Once again , I have never said stakes have gone up enough , but they are going in the right direction.

Good things take time .

[Guest 2Admin2]

Lets accept what we have been told and summarise this .

Northern training fees are top of the range , CD probably $10 a day less and southern training fees are significantly less .

 

rdtdy has issues with my bonanza summary , it seems in the south my assessment is a little conservative , their lower costs and racing for the same stakes as the north is very good news for them , in the CD my assessment is close to the mark as demonstrated by my friends horse winning on Saturday , the $12,000 for winning a BM 65 is a great result .

In the North anyone choosing to pay extra will be a little disappointed  , on average , my assessment isn't to far astray .

 

What the real problem is ,  people don't like me stating facts , STAKES HAVE GONE UP .

I have never said the increases are enough  , every one involved in racing including those administrating racing agree they must increase further .

 

For those with some sort of a grudge against the "suits" accepting that stakes have gone up seems to be a tough ask .

 

Once again , I have never said stakes have gone up enough , but they are going in the right direction.

Good things take time .

Stakes haven't gone up - the Thompson Handicap is less than it was 8 years ago.

[gubellini 4,009]

rdytdy just checked on a recent account for one horse trained in Matamata.He had one race at Taupo in the billing period. Total account $2,798.69.This would be a good average cost.

[rdytdy 5,343]

Cheers Gubellini.

Confirms everything I have have been saying. Two starts would have been in excess of $3000.

Two starts at Ruakaka you would be looking at $4k for the month.

There will a number heading south to Riccarton also so their November account will be steep if they return home empty handed.

[Cubes 1,770]

Cubes has five thoroughbreds

Some of them have actually made it to the track

Training = $48 a day +GST

Vets fees , Farrier fees ,Transport fees ,BS Nomination Fees push it up to $63 a day plus GST when in work

Agistment Fees depend but are either $ 14,16,18 a day + GST depending on the agister

Total Cost of the five for the last 12 months $ 102,811 + GST = Average $ 20,562 + GST

Stakes earned last 12 months = $61,950

Numbers a bit distorted because of the yearling who hasn't raced

And Cubes suspects we have done better than most on the stakes side of things

[richie 1,027]

Cubes has five thoroughbreds

Some of them have actually made it to the track

Training = $48 a day +GST

Vets fees , Farrier fees ,Transport fees ,BS Nomination Fees push it up to $63 a day plus GST when in work

Agistment Fees depend but are either $ 14,16,18 a day + GST depending on the agister

Total Cost of the five for the last 12 months $ 102,811 + GST = Average $ 20,562 + GST

Stakes earned last 12 months = $61,950

Numbers a bit distorted because of the yearling who hasn't raced

And Cubes suspects we have done better than most on the stakes side of things

Richie thinks Cubes is due a good horse.Richie hopes that Cubes Yearling is the good horse Cubes is due.Richie says good luck Cubes.

[tasman man 11 979]

Both Fasthorse and Puha's connection is that of owner/trainer in the lower North Island I believe..  

 

The average training fee up here is $65 + gst = $74.75 a day which for a 31 day month is $2,317.25. I have had horses with four different trainers and the cost is virtually the same.

 

Puha's original question he stated that in CHB it is about 2k a month for a small stable, low overheads and that depending on the operation he expected a variance of $1k which equates to $3k a month. So you are roughly correct Puha.

 

So at $2300 odd just for training fees a month and then all the other expenses plus 2 starts in the month would be in excess of $3000 for the month. Work out the cost if you went to Ruakaka and raced twice there. That would add an extra $1500 just for those two days. Gubellini has confirmed training fees up here.

 

Puha, the gear hireage is bugger all, some include some don't.  

 

Now Fasthorse hasn't come back. I hope that you have received a reality check Gollum (Fasthorse) and when your masters from Petone check in with you re the response to your "precious" Racing Bonanza thread I trust you will tell them it is not enough. The stakes don't go as far as you thought.

 

Stakes have to be increased significantly across the board, particularly so in the lower grades to encourage people to race and breed horses. We cannot continue to have people walk away from ownership, stop breeding their mares, with an emphasis on those remaining having to survive by selling as fast as they can or going offshore to race them for decent stakes causing further erosion of domestic racing.

 

The only way to arrest this is to provide worthwhile stakes.  

 

I agree with the "facts" as reported by  Teddy on this....and Ive been around 4 or 5 pro-trainers.

 

Sure the costs while spelling are considerably less , for say 4 months , but while racing they are considerably higher than the "average" month.

Vets charges vary , but pre-race scopes , chiropractor , trials fees , travel costs , gear like rugs , dentist , supplements etc,nomination fees increase the total cost considerably.

 

FYI , Harness training costs are much lower and many of the stakes are higher . Of course purchase price for a well-bred one much lower as well.

 

Go Harness racing....get involved !!!!

[biff 2,158]

I'll add my sixpence worth and shut up………promise. We have one in work, and a few mares, so will stick to the racehorse only. Just a young un, with a top trainer, happy with the training fee and the ++…….not happy with the non free racing. Not happy with the suits in Petone [sorry FH] with their obscene salaries and wonderous views. They are mediocre, leadership starts at the top, subsidise racing and wammo you will attract more owners. Instead of racing one, I will race two or three. I don't want to go back training myself, would rather support young blood, and I hope others are the same.

Fasthorse come the day when you race one, one out, meaning you find the daily fee and the extras and pay your trainer then you will not talk through rose coloured glasses.

I acknowledge stakes have risen in some cases, it appears the hierarchy has heard the rumblings of discontent and are acting accordingly. Next step is to provide better conditions for owners, make it a special day out for those that contribute financially. Call Moonee Valley for a course in 'owner liaison and hospitality' they do it better than anyone. A float subsidy would be a start, per KM basis, so those coming furthest feel it's an invitation or reward. Paying the riding fee should be on the horizon for the clubs, and have good hospitality at the races, a room aside for owners and trainers with catering.

Its done here in Oz, and done well, so dont be so bloody recalcitrant and get on the tram…..if you make a house warm and welcoming you create a happy family and thats what this game needs, a big happy family.

[chelseacol 2,488]

Good post Biff.

 

No doubt Stakes have increased recently and they needed too. Pretty dispiriting to win a lowly race and realise that the stake money wont cover 2 months training.

 

I suspect most owners accept they need luck etc to make any money. It is the excitement and love of the game that makes you go down the road.

[venusserena 19]

Lets accept what we have been told and summarise this .

Northern training fees are top of the range , CD probably $10 a day less and southern training fees are significantly less .

 

rdtdy has issues with my bonanza summary , it seems in the south my assessment is a little conservative , their lower costs and racing for the same stakes as the north is very good news for them , in the CD my assessment is close to the mark as demonstrated by my friends horse winning on Saturday , the $12,000 for winning a BM 65 is a great result .

In the North anyone choosing to pay extra will be a little disappointed  , on average , my assessment isn't to far astray .

 

What the real problem is ,  people don't like me stating facts , STAKES HAVE GONE UP .

I have never said the increases are enough  , every one involved in racing including those administrating racing agree they must increase further .

 

For those with some sort of a grudge against the "suits" accepting that stakes have gone up seems to be a tough ask .

 

Once again , I have never said stakes have gone up enough , but they are going in the right direction.

Good things take time .

Do you really honestly believe you can say "Stakes have gone up"?

My involvement in racing horses include.....

first horse I raced won a $7000 maiden at Hastings  in 1991 cost of training fees was $20 per day - Maiden races are still $7000 in 2014!

My mare ran second in the Group 3 Fillies and Mares race at Hawera in 2005 race worth $70k then (run a couple of weekends ago worth $80k) (Yes I can see the small increase of approx 13%) but the cost of training fees back then was $30 per day compared to $55 per day today farrier bills have also DOUBLED in this time not to mention we didn't pay track fees in those days...........

 

I've done OK thru the Industry BUT it is doing nothing to excite me about remaining involved and investing in its future.

 

I would honestly hate to think how much trainers would have to set their training fees at to consider all their daily maintenance and running costs and to aim to make a 20% PROFIT at year's end (not factoring in stake money won) I personally think the majority budget to break even thru training fee costs and their profit is the 10% of prizemoney the horses win during the season.

[Portfolio 728]

So why does it cost less to race a standardbred? Surely they eat the same but they have a shit load more harness. I know because I've harnessed them.

 

Good point.....

Harness carts.....more gear....more of a skill to get a nag to pace or trot......And they charge less???

 

Put it down to the flash cars, trucks, houses and farms that Gallops Trainers, mainly in the North, want owners to pay for.....set them up for retirement!

 

Someone said....it costs more for feed in the Nth Island? Christ, that is desperate stuff.....

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

Quite scary then when you look at the actual costs .Trainers arenn't making any money and neither are owners so who is ?

[rdytdy 5,343]

Well done VS.

[richie 1,027]

So why does it cost less to race a standardbred? Surely they eat the same but they have a shit load more harness. I know because I've harnessed them.

 

So why does it cost less to race a standardbred? Surely they eat the same but they have a shit load more harness. I know because I've harnessed them.

 

So why does it cost less to race a standardbred? Surely they eat the same but they have a shit load more harness. I know because I've harnessed them.

Probably less work,when i worked in Harness stable we used to drive 1 and lead 4 on jog days.There was 3 of us so we could do 15 ata a time.We had 30 horses in work so could quite easily do them in 3 hours.It used to take longer to prepare and wash them all down than work them.Also we used to pretrain as well so on hoppling days we didnt have to fastwork them all as some were only at jog stage.Generally trotting stables have a bigger ratio of horses per staff,at times we used to have up to 30 horses in work and the trainer,his wife,and 2 fulltime  staff with occasional help from some owners on trial and race days so labour costs much cheaper.

[fasthorse 57]

Do you really honestly believe you can say "Stakes have gone up"?

My involvement in racing horses include.....

first horse I raced won a $7000 maiden at Hastings  in 1991 cost of training fees was $20 per day - Maiden races are still $7000 in 2014!

My mare ran second in the Group 3 Fillies and Mares race at Hawera in 2005 race worth $70k then (run a couple of weekends ago worth $80k) (Yes I can see the small increase of approx 13%) but the cost of training fees back then was $30 per day compared to $55 per day today farrier bills have also DOUBLED in this time not to mention we didn't pay track fees in those days...........

 

I've done OK thru the Industry BUT it is doing nothing to excite me about remaining involved and investing in its future.

 

I would honestly hate to think how much trainers would have to set their training fees at to consider all their daily maintenance and running costs and to aim to make a 20% PROFIT at year's end (not factoring in stake money won) I personally think the majority budget to break even thru training fee costs and their profit is the 10% of prizemoney the horses win during the season.

 

It's a fact , look at today

 

Te rapa last year 10 races total stakes on offer , $200,000 .

 

Today , 10 races total stakes on offer  ,$224,500 , that's an increase .

On Saturday the increases were everywhere .

 

It's a factual statement , no more no less , stakes have gone up , accept it . 

 

[Turny 1,224]

Fasthorse, we all know you are here on behalf of "Petone" to spread the word as they haven't the guts to front up on anything. I hope they pay you well as you take heaps of stick as "you are completely out of step with reality" and your constant judicious selection of stats to advance your argument is interesting.

 

On this thread Ted is bang on - the reality is annual costs are in the $27- $30k range - end of.

 

You can "spin" as much BS as you like, it does not change reality. Ted's numbers are reality.

 

I have said it many times in relation to your threads - you are best ignored, and should be as you deliver "petone spin" and BS to advance and justify the very poor state racing is in. I read your threads BUT ignore you and your input as it is total BS.

[hedley 1,900]

It's a fact , look at today

 

Te rapa last year 10 races total stakes on offer , $200,000 .

 

Today , 10 races total stakes on offer  ,$224,500 , that's an increase .

On Saturday the increases were everywhere .

 

It's a factual statement , no more no less , stakes have gone up , accept it . 

 

Premier meetings are fewer and farther between the bulk of race-cards that make up most of the tiers of the Stakes Recovery Pyramid.

 

selectively comparing last year's Te Rapa meeting with this year's one showing a 10% increase on last, only proves that increase has occured to the topper most tiers of the recovery pyramid..and those are available as i said, fewer and further between the main mass of that pyramid.

 

that unspins your 'weave' Fasthorse

[biff 2,158]

Fasthorse, we all know you are here on behalf of "Petone" to spread the word as they haven't the guts to front up on anything. I hope they pay you well as you take heaps of stick as "you are completely out of step with reality" and your constant judicious selection of stats to advance your argument is interesting.

 

On this thread Ted is bang on - the reality is annual costs are in the $27- $30k range - end off.

 

You can "spin" as much BS as you like, it does not change reality. Ted's numbers are reality.

 

I have said it many times in relation to your threads - you are best ignored, and should be as you deliver "petone spin" and BS to advance and justify the very poor state racing is in. I read your threads BUT ignore you and your input as it is total BS.

Now that's a post!

[fasthorse 57]

Fasthorse, we all know you are here on behalf of "Petone" to spread the word as they haven't the guts to front up on anything. I hope they pay you well as you take heaps of stick as "you are completely out of step with reality" and your constant judicious selection of stats to advance your argument is interesting.

 

On this thread Ted is bang on - the reality is annual costs are in the $27- $30k range - end of.

 

You can "spin" as much BS as you like, it does not change reality. Ted's numbers are reality.

 

I have said it many times in relation to your threads - you are best ignored, and should be as you deliver "petone spin" and BS to advance and justify the very poor state racing is in. I read your threads BUT ignore you and your input as it is total BS.

 

First , Cubes post 31 is the most informative and covers the topic clearly .

rdtdy and a couple of others refuse to accept that most horses are not in work for a full 12 months of the year which is where we differ .

 

Now TURNY , you might like to use the EDIT option and remove the latter part of line one , it's grossly offensive and unfair to the people you are attacking.

For the record , once again ,  I have NO links with anyone from Petone , display a bit of good character and do it .

 

I find it disappointing that biff and leggy  find this type of attack acceptable.

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

[rdytdy 5,343]

You are an idiot Fasthorse and are showing complete ignorance.

I have provided you with accurate information which had been backed up by others who have experienced the same costs, yet you are still in denial.

For the last bloody time the years costs are $25,00 - $30,000. which includes the horse spelling. I provided details from one 30 day month with the account coming to $2600 without any race starts or trials, so a basic account. Imagine the what the account would be with the horse having one or two starts and the associated costs....well in excess of $3,000 for the month.

You have no bloody idea and despite being given a reality check you continue to not accept what has been accurately provided to you.

Go away!!

[Leggy 4,096]

I find it disappointing that biff and leggy  find this type of attack acceptable.

Sorry you find it disappointing fasthorse, but if you think stating facts and pointing out deficiencies is an attack, I disagree. It's simply the truth. If you can show me where they've constructively responded to criticism, particularly in social media, please point it out. They have no answers because their policy is flawed and based on hunches. Other than reliance on subsidies from other sources, where is NZTR product generating more revenue in the last three years? And whatever spin you like to put on it, the majority of runners are competing in events with no real stakes increase over the last three years.

Get real ffs.

[Guest 2Admin2]

It costs a minimum of $1,000 in raceday costs per race start. There's a minimum of $12k before training costs.

Assuming your horse has two preps per year with 6 starts each prep.

[Cubes 1,770]

Cubes wishes all on Racecafe could just take a deep breath and get along and not get personal

We all care about this sport and are passionate as is clear from some of the posts

Also what is clear is costs vary a bit thoroughout the country...cheaper in the South and not so much up North

Also what is clear is Training costs are about 70 percent of total but when one gets into this game one should be aware of additional expenditure on vets , transport, farrier ,BS nomination fees

Let's not make Racecafe a site of haters...but a site of debate and discussion whilst respecting those with views that differ

[biff 2,158]

Gezus FH it's not an attack, if it was you'd be bruised to the shithouse. It's everyone [well those that have a clue] stating the facts. We race horses and many of us have done so for decades, some of us even rode and trained them a wee way back. So we know what end kicks and what end eats the hay. We also know where our money goes and how we prop up the industry. The vitriol comes from passion and the dieing thereof. If racing loses the likes of Ted, Vonny, and co, and I include moi in that, the big boys that feed off our ilk will surely suffer. Its a shame Vella and co aren't a tad more vociferous then maybe Petone would listen up. But Sir Pat surely knows there are things not quite right, otherwise he wouldn't have put his name to the ownership of the neddy with the satirical name currently doing the rounds of certain racecourses, but more is needed than having a tongue in cheek go at the person in question? 

Thats why so many on here are 'roused' frustrations come out in certain ways, Cubes is to be admired by his laconic view, but seriously, those that have been involved in racing most of their life are saddened by this malaise. It's dreadful, and I repeat for the umpteenth time, how can a place with almost the same population as NSW be in such a sad place with the racing industry, it beggars belief. It really shows that the at the top they don't give a f@#k or have no f@#$%^g idea! Get real or get out and leave the industry to people who do care and would bleed to see it where it was, a place in the sun. = IMO!