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We're Doomed
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Posts posted by We're Doomed
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20 minutes ago, Who Moi said:
Can someone bagging us "silent" trainers tell us who to go to. I try and try, calls don't get returned and if they do you are just fobbed of with "no can't do that" which actually just means WON'T do that, not can't. If one puts ones head too far up it gets well and truly kicked in, especially here at Riccarton where life can be made very difficult for "trouble makers"
That is a very good point. I am purely an impartial observer. I am prone to blame "they' for the problems without knowing who "they" actually are. They stay very anonymous.
It must be very difficult for trainers and participants who do have an idea what is going wrong and want to try and rectify things.
I have no idea what impact this site has. Whether many industry participants follow it or not. So I don't know whether there is any point people complaining on here.
Traditionally, the only way for dissatisfied people to get any mileage is through the media. NZ no longer has a racing media, other than possibly in Otago and Auckland, so I think if trainers are dissatisfied and the national trainers assoc isn't interested in getting involved, then their first option is to get general sports media interested.
The thing that frustrates me is that the SI's problems are incredibly obvious, and the solutions are quite obvious as well, and relatively cheap.
It appears to me that the CJC should be taking much more of a leadership role, but they are either unable to or unwilling to. I tend to blame it on incompetence, but when you think about it people really can't all be that incompetent so at least some of the problem must be a secret agenda.
Today's fiasco is an example of what happens when the pattern of racing is all wrong. With so much reliance on the AWT, once you get Wingatui abandoned and Ashburton partially abandoned and there is no other grass track meeting for weeks, trainers are absolutely stuffed. Those poor Southland trainers that travelled all the way to Ashburton for the Winter Cup trial. The same trainers who got stuffed when the April meeting was suddenly transferred to the AWT.
There hasn't been a word out of NZTR about doing anything to rectify the Wingatui and Ashburton mishaps. I imagine they are going to do nothing. There are only two acceptable solutions. They either run several grass track races, especially the Winter Cup trial, in conjunction with the AWT meeting next week, or else they programme a brand new Canty grass track meeting next Friday.
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7 minutes ago, tripple alliance said:
Last 3 races abandoned , lucky to get that far .
Yes, very unfortunate. Next grass track meeting in the SI about 17 days away. Not ideal for horses preparing for the Winter Cup and Grand National meeting. Effectively 5 races wiped out as two of the abandoned races had enough horses to be split. The logical thing would be to put on a grass track meeting in Canterbury next friday. Pigs might fly of course.
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53 minutes ago, stodge said:
Was that Will Featherstone? I also saw Ashley Dascombe among the winning riders as well.
Ashley rode in point to points up here on the south western circuit.
It was Ashley who rode a great race for a last stride win. I'm sure he will get more mounts in coming weeks. I have no idea how many British riders we have here at the moment. Must be quite a few.
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21 minutes ago, Demophon said:
Ashburton/NZTR could have held a consolation race for 20k for the bottom end of the highly nominated race and run the race at 10.30 am.
NZ racing has 15 noms with a field limit of 14 for the maiden hurdlers at Te Rapa on Saturday and are looking to hold noms open and possible run two race of 7 or 8 runners. NZ currently have enough jumps jockeys for field of 14 unlike last year. Mind you following the race 1 debacle at Trentham with the suspensions of 3 riders this may affect the number of available riders.
I had been thinking myself that we might actually have too many jumps jockeys at the moment. The new British chap who won on debut at Trentham only had one mount. The suspensions may help balance the numbers.
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2 hours ago, tripple alliance said:
Eliminated horses , well only 2 races have 6 balloted in the split races others have 5 or less so a few may have been eliminated but from those two races but the rest will have no eliminations . It's will be interesting to see how this all pans out on race day.
There are no split races. Two races had 28 and 29 noms. Those races now have 12 starters and 6 ballots. The remaining horses have mostly been eliminated altogether.
No worries about eliminations or ballots tomorrow at Rotorua.
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29 minutes ago, tripple alliance said:
Quote, Well now the Ashburton meeting has come around and we have starting limits of 10, 12 and 14. Based on current numbers, 73 nominations will miss out on a start. Two of the races that can only start 10 horses have 28 and 29 noms. There is no intention of splitting any race.
Good news 26 are balloted your 73 missing out is a fallacy , a few are double acceptors and that's before any scratchings so perhaps only a handful will miss out .
Do you have information about the eliminated horses that the rest of us aren't privy to? They only ballot a maximum of six horses, the rest just disappear.
And yes there are double acceptors. At least one of them a maiden that has had to accept in an open class race to try and get a start.
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3 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:
One young trainer is even considering heading to the CD to get a grass race. Good for her..but most don't have her resources. And as a business decision, unsustainable.
Sadly, it probably makes sense for owners to base their grass track horses in the NI for the winter, purely for racing opportunities, certainly not because the tracks are any better.
Tauranga on Sunday, 24 noms for a maiden race; "no trouble we can split that". Must make all the eliminated horses from Ashburton a bit sick.
- Pam Robson and Tauhei Notts
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3 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:
Trainers don't care? they care all right...but most have had the shit kicked out of them for so long I think they've just given up.
That is the impression I get as well. NZTR's approach seems to be to just wear down any opposition. They thrive on attrition. The Russian approach to running a racing industry.
Do the SI trainers get effective support from the national trainers assoc, or are they largely left to battle away on their own?
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Since NZTR have come to the party and tried to rectify their cockup slightly, I have decided to become much more positive in my posts.
I think it is really good that only 17 horses will miss a start in the maiden 1,400m, not 19 as originally proposed, and only 16 will miss a start in the 65 1,400m not the original 18.
And the fact that rating 62s will be balloted in the rating 65 race and rating 51s will miss a start in the maiden is a sign of the strength of SI racing and something we should all be excited about.
I will try and stick with my new positive approach going forward.
- Pam Robson, Littletramp and Palliser
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53 minutes ago, nomates said:
WD you legend , NZTR obviously read here and have picked up on your dissatisfaction with the allowable field size at Ashburton due to rail position , they have now decided to move it in and allow another 2 horses to be able to get a run in each race .
Who says that the small voices can't shout loud .
I just saw that. It is still a disgrace though that it got to this stage and still not ideal. Poor Bevan Wilson who has probably set his two good horses for the Winter Cup and probably thought the Winter Cup trial would be an ideal race for them, discovered both of them would likely miss a run, now one will get in and one might miss out. This is the last open class race in Canterbury prior to the Winter Cup so to originally programme it with a 10 horse limit is basically incompetent.
I do see a certain irony in three jockeys getting charged with being incompetent for a relatively minor error then deprived of their livelihoods for three weeks, while various NZTR staff remain nameless and get away with incompetence week after week and keep collecting their handsome salaries.
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40 minutes ago, Baz (NZ) said:
In that case...couldn't the judge rule the three runners that left the course just R = Ran Off ???
This would then place them ahead of the L = LOST RIDER & P = PULLED UP runners who actually failed to complete the course!...allowing them and their connections to earn the same stake money? In this case $520.
Does falling off a horse equate to the same mistake as running off on one?
Another can of worms too soon?
I was thinking much the same. If a horse had veered off after jumping a fence in the middle of the course, the jockey got it under control again, did a bit of a loop and rejoined the field before the next fence, Would that horse have been disqualified for not following the prescribed course?
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It would be good to have Dave contributing on here. I'm sure he would have some useful insights.
Another fund of knowledge who I'm sure would have a lot to contribute would be Tim Barton.
So much industry knowledge lost as the new broom takes over and brushes aside years of relevant experience.
- Pam Robson and scooby3051
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46 minutes ago, Maximus said:
Michael's explanation reinforces Maxi's earlier point, but Michael is wrong to take all the blame and the penalty is disproportionate to the mistake - ie it was UNINTENTIONAL and could not have happened if the BIG GAP in the outside rail had been closed again after the starting stalls had been moved through it.
Two gaps in close proximity - recipe for disaster.Big ups to Michael for posting his response here. Max can say with certainty that NO-ONE from NZTR or WRC will accept any blame for this mistake.
Thank you for Michael's contribution. I think the penalty is totally out of proportion to the offence. Basically wiped out for 25% of the jumps season because of an honest mistake in a maiden race. Meanwhile jockeys who blatantly and knowingly break the whip rules to win a race get away with a minor fine.
Just think about it. A clearly superior horse wins a maiden race despite taking a longer route, not missing a single jump. The horse gets disqualified and the jockey gets put out for quarter of the season. Another horse gets up to win a major race by a nose, that it almost certainly wouldn't have won otherwise, the jockey gets a minor fine and there is no suggestion of the horse getting relegated let alone disqualified.
I do struggle with the logic and consistency.
- meomy, Alf Riston, Pam Robson and 5 others
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19 minutes ago, Peter R S said:
But the Northern drift is in full swing!
How long until the CD realise they have been centralised out of it as well. Trentham is stuffed, Hastings and Awapuni out of action. The future does not look good.
Everything will move north and the racing calendar will revolve around a slot race and a couple of restricted entry races.
Very sad times.
- nomates, meomy and Pam Robson
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2 hours ago, Tesio said:
Last race meeting at ASHBURTON was 10 weeks ago, and then rail was out 5m. After this week, the next race meeting at ASHBURTON is 11 Oct…..so why is the rail out with restricted field size for a feature day? When was the last time ASHBURTON raced in the true position? Will anyone explain, I’m guessing not, NZTR and the Clubs now seem to operate in a purposeful world of ‘non communication’. Until the trainers grow a pair and start to demand answers/change/accountability nothing is going to change and owners will walk away. So the ball is fair and square now in the trainers court, pull finger guys and girls!!
I would have thought that NZTR should be saying to Ashburton, 'If you can only start 10 horses then you shouldn't be running feature race meetings". Down the road Timaru have zero feature race meetings despite traditionally having a superior racing surface. Ashburton have numerous feature meetings. The place is a total mess. NZTR have got away with incompetence for many years and SI trainers don't say a word.
I really do think SI could boom if it was properly run. But you do have to think NZTR have almost succeeded in destroying it. Centralisation has not worked.
- meomy, nomates, Pam Robson and 1 other
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21 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:
Dont know that is fair...the stewards and the people who manage the gaps on the course need to share the blame...easy to just blame the poor old jocks.
I know bloody well that if I was a jockey I would just be playing follow the leader and trying to stay on at that stage of the race. If I recall, there was only one jockey who realised where they were supposed to be going and he took a couple of others with him. I don't think he won the race either. Poor bugger, if he hadn't had the other two inside him he probably would have been the only one who legally finished the race.
And sadly, one of the disqualified horses was subsequently put down. So not a happy race really.
- Idolmite, Alf Riston and Baz (NZ)
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1 minute ago, scooby3051 said:
I have no idea whether trainers even notice these things. Perhaps they are quite content that NZTR has offered to put on an extra race at the next AWT meeting.
trainers have no balls to stand up as if they do they will get them cut off...and the trainers association is a toothless tiger.
They do seem to tolerate an awful lot, especially in the SI.
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I was going to comment after Wingatui was abandoned on Sunday, but decided not to as it doesn't seem to worry anyone else.
My comment would have been that it was $120,000 not distributed to owners and trainers in the South plus another $20,000 odd not paid out to jockeys. Many of those industry people would have been anticipating some income from that meeting to help them survive through the winter.
I realise it was too wet to race, they shouldn't be racing at Wingatui in June and July anyhow, but the attitude of NZTR was basically: "tough, there are meetings coming up at Ashburton and Oamaru, plus the gold plated AWT at Riccarton", just what a horse nominated for a heavy 10 at Wingatui was looking for.
Well now the Ashburton meeting has come around and we have starting limits of 10, 12 and 14. Based on current numbers, 73 nominations will miss out on a start. Two of the races that can only start 10 horses have 28 and 29 noms. There is no intention of splitting any race.
There is so much wrong about this situation. Why the hell are they holding a feature meeting with massive noms at a track that can only start 10 horses? And why totally different treatment for the NI and SI?
We also have Rotorua this week. 75 acceptors, basically the same number that will miss a start at Ashburton. They had 16 noms for one race at Rotorua so they left the race open and said they would split it. They got no extra noms, but still decided to split it with 15 acceptors.
This contrasts with the last Oamaru meeting where one rating 65 race had 24 noms, but there was no intention of leaving it open or splitting it, despite this meaning that no maiden winner from the delayed Timaru meeting would be allowed to start at Oamaru.
I have no idea whether trainers even notice these things. Perhaps they are quite content that NZTR has offered to put on an extra race at the next AWT meeting.
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17 hours ago, Idolmite said:
"We?" "Our?" How many people does it take to get each one of your posts up?
I take it meomy goes by we/they/them/it pronouns.
Good to see this place is all inclusive and scooby believes in diversity.
- scooby3051 and Basil brush
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6 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:
I can think of a few words not used yet...most not allowed...get it through your heads...TRAINERS HATE SYNTHETIC TRIALS...please I hope it sinks in!!!!!!
It actually surprises me that they don't run some of these trials even with small numbers, just to show some good will to the trainers who do support them. The trainers who aren't interested don't care one way or the other, but the trainers who nominate for the AWT trials week after week must surely be getting really pissed off.
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20 minutes ago, Eclipsed said:
L.D Nathan merger and leadership of Lion Nathan by Peter Cooper have lead to these agreements within the Racing industry as was Lions intent for a number of years prior.They wanted the money from alcohol sales.Hence also only Oasis drinks as an alternative.He was at the helm of Lion breweries era late 1990's early 2000's.
What a load of utter shyte.
Peter Cooper was briefly part of Lion Nathan following Lion and L D Nathan completing a controversial deal in 1988. The deal allowed Douglas Myers to get Heineken out of its shareholding in Lion at that time. Cooper exited Lion Nathan very soon after this, moving to the USA with his family. The deal saw Lion Nathan with the NZ bottling and distribution rights of Coca-Cola (Oasis) who were filthy as Kevin Roberts, the then COO of Lion was a Pepsi man. Lion sold this back to Coca-Cola at a whopping 18x EBITDA and then took on Pepsi in Australia and New Zealand. The deal also saw Deka (renamed from many of the Nathans general merchandise stores) and also Big Fresh become a part of the Lion group.
Any connection to this merger having anything to do with the racing industry is pure and absolute fantasy.
Everything is connected and just a little bit sinister in Meomy's eyes.
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6 hours ago, Phar Lap Fan said:
Did Wood Court Inn win that race, when 2 y.o.? Would have probably been run in Summer.
2yos did race in it back in those days, when it was WFA and held in March. I can clearly remember the 2yo Coober's Queen beating Grey Way in an epic battle in the late 70s. she would have received about 14kgs off the mighty Grey. Grey Way won the race once from memory and was placed in it numerous times.
The only thing the current version has in common with the original race is the name, which is quite sad really. Current racegoers must think it is a low staked winter slog, and have no idea what the race once was.
People aren't allowed to use iconic horses names. It is a bit sad clubs are allowed to use and abuse iconic race names.
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I thought it was poor the way they totally ignored the 3rd and 4th placegetters at the finish. Some people have trifectas and first 4s. It would be good to see the placegetters cross the line
- meomy, Idolmite and Aaron Bidlake
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Wellington Steeplechase Trackside Coverage
in Thoroughbred Cafe
Posted
I think I mentioned in another thread that Purcil was the one who went the wrong way. You are quite correct, it was Purcil who won the race.