On-course betting limits!

[chelseacol 2,488]

3 hours ago, THE TORCH said:

Well it is their fault if they are asking for prefferrential treatment. "We will do this.......if you offer that" was in their conversations surely. Isn't there an admin fee involved when joining up as well? Or a slice goes to Kemeys win, lose, or draw? Any information for or against this is welcome. 

I'd really like to see a rival group take them on and the TAB to create interest. As amusing as it would be to see another group rock the boat, the competitive nature of punters would go on a new tangent. 

Why don't you set one up then ? You seem to have plenty of grievances against BGP. Did they turn down your membership application, or yell too loudly in your ear one day on-course. ? I don't really get the negativity.

And to think any "deal" they get with the TAB influences the TAB accepting a bet like you have been talking about is pure fantasy.

Big punters, owners etc etc have always been able to ask for odds, or get rebates, or be looked after in other ways. And so they should. 

[Old Man 164]

They don't turn down tote bets on course.

Very likely both instances involved fixed odds bets.  

[THE TORCH 690]

6 hours ago, chelseacol said:

Why don't you set one up then ? You seem to have plenty of grievances against BGP. Did they turn down your membership application, or yell too loudly in your ear one day on-course. ? I don't really get the negativity.

And to think any "deal" they get with the TAB influences the TAB accepting a bet like you have been talking about is pure fantasy.

Big punters, owners etc etc have always been able to ask for odds, or get rebates, or be looked after in other ways. And so they should. 

LOL! Hilarious. There's deals and you know it. And meanwhile the regular bloke in the street has to get shafted for balance. The big owner at Riccarton certainly didnt get the odds he asked for! A lot of you are on here crying why people go to offshore agencies - well you're sticking up for one of the main reasons why. 

Unlike you I don't need BGP to get me through the day. They're a con job and a contradiction. But it would be awesome to see a new entity move in and challenge their "precious patch". A few on here would hit the roof and really feel insecure about it all. But if BGP is so great for racing lets make it open slather. Agree??

[Pak Star 735]

39 minutes ago, THE TORCH said:

LOL! Hilarious. There's deals and you know it. And meanwhile the regular bloke in the street has to get shafted for balance. The big owner at Riccarton certainly didnt get the odds he asked for! A lot of you are on here crying why people go to offshore agencies - well you're sticking up for one of the main reasons why. 

Unlike you I don't need BGP to get me through the day. They're a con job and a contradiction. But it would be awesome to see a new entity move in and challenge their "precious patch". A few on here would hit the roof and really feel insecure about it all. But if BGP is so great for racing lets make it open slather. Agree??

I am a big fan of BGP and what they are doing for racing and sport (not to the point I need them "to get through my day") BUT I am open to more punters clubs from other origins.  I'm not sure why you think BGP fans would be against the idea?  Its not a protected turf.  Nor do the BGP crew and their community expect it to be.  The TAB ran its own punters club a couple months back and had its fair share of BGP members supporting it despite having no affiliation to the group.

In regards to "deals", the club and TAB were pretty transparent with each bet.  The Hes a Doozy book was open 12+ hours before they got on at the market price.  For obvious reason the TAB dropped the $5.50 price immediately after the bet was made so I wouldnt consider market price to be a "deal".

Ultimately though, you seem to be missing a few points by believing BGP is nothing more than a punters club?  They are a racing community first and foremost.  A bunch of dudes sharing sport and racing tips in an online forum, getting together for a Sydney boys weekend at the Everest, talking sport and racing, sharing advice on how to punt, and even creating ownership syndicates in both thoroughbred and greyhound racing.  As little as 1% shares in ownership that would otherwise have been unattainable for a lot of people - but god forbid they all join up on course and cheer for their horse in the seats next to yours.

When did we start rubbishing those promoting the industry in a positive light?  

[BackPoonDrinkGoon 93]

Even if they lose they win. Kemeys and co will get back 5% of the starting pool thru the elite rebate regardless.

[Leggy 4,149]

26 minutes ago, BackPoonDrinkGoon said:

Even if they lose they win. Kemeys and co will get back 5% of the starting pool thru the elite rebate regardless.

Or 5% turnover?

[the investigator 63]

surely not 5% on turnover of fixed odds bets.

[BackPoonDrinkGoon 93]

2 hours ago, Leggy said:

Or 5% turnover?

5% of the net loss

[Leggy 4,149]

3 hours ago, the investigator said:

surely not 5% on turnover of fixed odds bets.

No. It was only paid on tote bets as far as I know. I hadn't heard of the net loss arrangement though.

[Leggy 4,149]

3 hours ago, BackPoonDrinkGoon said:

5% of the net loss

Seems a bit of a conflict of interest if that's the case. Take people's money and get paid for losing it?

[BackPoonDrinkGoon 93]

30 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Seems a bit of a conflict of interest if that's the case. Take people's money and get paid for losing it?

Absolutely agree. 

[BackPoonDrinkGoon 93]

1 hour ago, Leggy said:

No. It was only paid on tote bets as far as I know. I hadn't heard of the net loss arrangement though.

That’s what all elite customers are offered. 5% on net loss for your months fixed odds turnover. Tote rebates diff but need to be turning over 10k+ on tote to be eligible from memory. 

[chelseacol 2,488]

9 hours ago, THE TORCH said:

LOL! Hilarious. There's deals and you know it. And meanwhile the regular bloke in the street has to get shafted for balance. The big owner at Riccarton certainly didnt get the odds he asked for! A lot of you are on here crying why people go to offshore agencies - well you're sticking up for one of the main reasons why. 

Unlike you I don't need BGP to get me through the day. They're a con job and a contradiction. But it would be awesome to see a new entity move in and challenge their "precious patch". A few on here would hit the roof and really feel insecure about it all. But if BGP is so great for racing lets make it open slather. Agree??

This would be more constructive if you read my posts.

I told you I have nothing to do with BGP. Never deposited any funds or been to an event with them.  But I think they are good for the game. You are bitter and twisted about them - that's fine - albeit slightly unhealthy probably. But don't tell me I need them to get through the day. And I have no problem if more groups are formed or whatever

I told you in my previous posts that there are deals done. I have seen that directly - know lots of punters who get looked after by the TAB in various ways. I've met and bet with lots of senior TAB guys. But even the really high turnover guys get knocked back on fixed odds bets sometimes. Or restricted on amounts they can bet.

And guess what - it's how the world works in all betting activities. Ever had a host in Vegas ?  They look after people who bet more than others. Same in business with negotiated prices for bigger customers. Rebates on turnover. Etc etc.

Have a fun day punting.

[THE TORCH 690]

I find it extremely weird that the TAB want laws on NZers restricting their overseas wagering yet wont give every Kiwi punter a fair deal here! How is that democratic? I dont care about "some" high roller stories of restrictions - my argument has been about a loyal and regular participant in the industry getting a 50% "NO" for his bet at the window. A few weeks later he flicks on the telly and hears about rebates, etc, etc, and all other TAB baloney with an organised punting group who do get favours with 500 times the punting stake. Yes favours, not just the price on our screens. BGP can do what they want - but dont shove the "hype" (as fake as it is portrayed) down our throats when what we really want is decent race build-ups, meaningful interviews (very hard to come by), and prelims. Let the desperados do their stuff on-course. Get on-course if you want to see them. Even give them a channel (63) - Id say they've already tried this. Would make sense if its such a revolutionary idea for NZ racing. "The TAB ran its own punters club a couple months back and had its fair share of BGP members supporting it despite having no affiliation to the group." - that quote confirms my point earlier about what type of punter they are attracting. You wont see the TAB plugging the "bet responsibly" reminder at their table(s). 

[Nerula 1,412]

Space your work out. Its tiresome to read. Looks like angry rant not reason

[Pak Star 735]

1 hour ago, THE TORCH said:

I find it extremely weird that the TAB want laws on NZers restricting their overseas wagering yet wont give every Kiwi punter a fair deal here! How is that democratic? I dont care about "some" high roller stories of restrictions - my argument has been about a loyal and regular participant in the industry getting a 50% "NO" for his bet at the window. A few weeks later he flicks on the telly and hears about rebates, etc, etc, and all other TAB baloney with an organised punting group who do get favours with 500 times the punting stake. Yes favours, not just the price on our screens. BGP can do what they want - but dont shove the "hype" (as fake as it is portrayed) down our throats when what we really want is decent race build-ups, meaningful interviews (very hard to come by), and prelims. Let the desperados do their stuff on-course. Get on-course if you want to see them. Even give them a channel (63) - Id say they've already tried this. Would make sense if its such a revolutionary idea for NZ racing. "The TAB ran its own punters club a couple months back and had its fair share of BGP members supporting it despite having no affiliation to the group." - that quote confirms my point earlier about what type of punter they are attracting. You wont see the TAB plugging the "bet responsibly" reminder at their table(s). 

I will refer back to one of my earlier replies about directing your anger towards the appropriate channels.  Nothing in your comprehensive list of grievances is the fault of BGP, regardless of how much emotive language and bitter snipes you use.

You conveniently ignore all the year round good they do for the racing community, because of a punters club that happens once or twice a year.

[THE TORCH 690]

4 hours ago, Pakaraka Star said:

I will refer back to one of my earlier replies about directing your anger towards the appropriate channels.  Nothing in your comprehensive list of grievances is the fault of BGP, regardless of how much emotive language and bitter snipes you use.

You conveniently ignore all the year round good they do for the racing community, because of a punters club that happens once or twice a year.

They get preferential treatment - how is that fair? That's what you have not answered. 

Id hardly call it emotive. Emotive would be what Mark said to the TAB operator at the window. 

Maybe he should have pulled out his BGP keyring.

[THE TORCH 690]

5 hours ago, Nerula said:

Space your work out. Its tiresome to read. Looks like angry rant not reason

Hardly angry - just confused at how the TAB has a bias and organisations can bargain with them. I hope you never have an issue with the TAB.

[Nerula 1,412]

It is about turn over and you would hope they are bright enough to find a margin.

[meomy 980]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2022 at 7:05 PM, THE TORCH said:

Heard the other day that people are being told they can't put their full quota of bets on when on-course! I've heard and seen it happen online, but never at the actual window!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Both occurred at Riccarton - one well-known North Island owner and trainer tried to put $500 ew on his horse and was only allowed half the bet. Jason Myers tried putting $100 on a horse and was only permitted $80. How the hell can this happen when we have a ridiculous set -up like BGP actually get increased odds with their huge punts?? No wonder we are losing our real racing stalwarts.

Do they do this to those who spend that amount on Lotto or Casino?

Or is it just Racing industry that is repeatedly disproportionately targeted by the likes of Problem Gambling and Anti Money Laundering legislation?

Perhaps they should start to accept people as they are instead of all the B/S that's going on in the world bc of the Tech industry and AI.

[the investigator 63]

so nerula if its all about turnover why arent te akau paid more in stakes than the other owners because they generate by far the most turnover.

ffs when did you last go shopping there are signs all over the supermarket trade not supplied limit 2 etc 

rebates are a complete disaster for nz racig not only are they unfair on joe blow punter by having to accept 20% average takeout but these premium punter cannibalise the pools that are already too small