Baz (NZ)

Rodmar - Reece Cole at Rotorua

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Can someone tell me when this rule below came into play? I have heard of excessive use....but not use of the whip? :huh:
$500 Fine - Whip use on a horse clearly winning [Rule 638(3)(b)(ii)]
I watched the replay and don't see much wrong?
I also think $500 is excessive for the charge? These jump riders get limited opportunities with shit stakes.
Hardly worth going to work today for Reece Cole!

 

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34 minutes ago, Baz (NZ) said:

Can someone tell me when this rule below came into play? I have heard of excessive use....but not use of the whip? :huh:
$500 Fine - Whip use on a horse clearly winning [Rule 638(3)(b)(ii)]
I watched the replay and don't see much wrong?
I also think $500 is excessive for the charge? These jump riders get limited opportunities with shit stakes.
Hardly worth going to work today for Reece Cole!

 

NZ signed a IFHA agreement on whip use with  number of points  , use on horse clearly winning or has achieved maximum placing one of the points .Not sure if rule came in after that . Some opt out examples are USA , they didnt want to ban  use of whip above shoulder height , it looks bloody awful there at times, some real disgusting beltings  . 

Ryan Moore got pinged by same rule a few weeks back at York when lengths clear and got a ban.Tough one though as cannot expect jock to watch big screen , start looking round and get caught on line they are in shit . I suppose the clearly part is reason not many get done for it .

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From what I could see...the whip was only used 4-5 times the whole length of the straight?
I'd like to show/paste the link to this race only but the video strangely enough doesn't work at NZ Racing web-site...a cover up? :rcf-monkey:
Maybe they should be FINED $500 for incompetence? :rcf-laughing-1:

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F**k i only just deleted today's programme off the mysky before i read this.

Mind boggling, here's a kid as tall as Lebron James nearly getting his weight under control and getting back to the career he lives for and he cops this shit , Really was it that bad ???

Also a Disclaimer , no relation to Reece.

Heavy tracks you need to keep their mind on the job this time of the year on that track.

Whats with the Loveracing.co.nz embargo on the video replay ??? Everything else up, or are they running scared of racecafe pffftt

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I think this rule is a very grey area and can only be interpreted in the eyes of the beholders i.e stewards? Can of worms stuff? :ph34r:

Does seem a very harsh penalty for any Jumps Jockey struggling to get by in this game? :unsure:

Good thinking Charlie...MySky!  I recorded Rotorua today too...hopefully this upload works?

Reece Cole - 19.09.15 Race 4 - T W MOORE LTD HWT - Rodmar.avi

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I have now re-watched the Replay. Hmmm...I still struggle with this decision. :unsure:

Comparing Rodmar's rider Reece Cole's whip use up the straight (4-5 Strikes) while in front to that of Guy Fox's rider Kayla Veenendaal (16+ Strikes) at the back last?

I understand what the stewards are trying to prevent...but which is worse? Whip Use is Whip Use regardless of your position in the field.
I want confidence in the riders judgement/ability on a horse I have $$$ invested to get it across the line as fast as possible! It's a race!
Especially on Winter tracks when horses can easily fall in a hole when not kept up to the task!
OPIE BOSSON - WATCH OFFICER 1998 Kiwifruit Cup at Tauranga

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7 hours ago, Baz (NZ) said:

I have now re-watched the Replay. Hmmm...I still struggle with this decision. :unsure:

Comparing Rodmar's rider Reece Cole's whip use up the straight (4-5 Strikes) while in front to that of Guy Fox's rider Kayla Veenendaal (16+ Strikes) at the back last?

I understand what the stewards are trying to prevent...but which is worse? Whip Use is Whip Use regardless of your position in the field.
I want confidence in the riders judgement/ability on a horse I have $$$ invested to get it across the line as fast as possible! It's a race!
Especially on Winter tracks when horses can easily fall in a hole when not kept up to the task!
OPIE BOSSON - WATCH OFFICER 1998 Kiwifruit Cup at Tauranga

Thanks for upload Baz  as not working on NZTR site . I think the authorities need to clamp down a bit on the whip and do not agree at all with unlimited from 100 mark . Unlimited thrashings not a great sounding rule . However imho you are bang on money here , this jocks been harshly treated .I reckon  he's just kept that horse up to work , couple cracks and hands and heels , I suppose the couple after long look round has done him. If he don't look round iam not sure he would have been done . The windmill action by Guy Fox rider looked way worse . Cole should appeal, but I suppose cost will out weigh fine so catch 22. Didn't watch any racing yesterday but the ground look gluggy so assuming they were stopping pretty quickly Whip will be gone inside a decade anyway .

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This is unbelievable that charge was even laid,He did in my view what any rider would have done,

The Industry needs a complete review of all things Racing, Stewards included.

I will be watching as many races as i can to see if there is going to be consistent application applied to this rule.

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How many others before Reece have received a $500 fine from the application of this rule? If the general nature of his ride was excessive I could understand but unless he has a history in this regard surely in THIS CASE a warning should suffice? Would be an interesting conversation on Trackside:rcfe-like:

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13 hours ago, Baz (NZ) said:

Just out of interest...does this rule exist in Australia ?....and whats the penalty? :rcf-thinking-1:

132 (6) (G) (H) covers it in OZ . If he's not had much strife before about the whip iam with others why not warn or educate the rider . He wasn't 20 lengths clear.  If he was neck a neck inside the 100 he could have belted crap out the horse unlimited , but couple to keep him going in mud 500 bucks , I assume he's a young bloke , that's rough . 

 

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Isdale got fined $300 for Excessive use and Veenendal was warned and they both started using it around the 400 ,and I can’t blame them in their respective circumstances.... at what point does a warning become $300 ? Surely these points should be covered in the rules ( including fines for 2nd and third offences)otherwise it’s left to the discretion of the Stewards, and using historical Enquiry decisions this is a very grey area indeed  :rcf-thinking:

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looks like it boils down to ‘justification’ Baz , if you ‘dont have to why ‘ ...it’s the basis of these new rules covering Animal rights, going by this decision it would be in the Jocks best interests to keep their eyes on the finish...which ironically could mean more horses hit with the whip ‘unnecessarily ‘.The Rule needs amending , because it all boils down to discretion, either on the part of the jockey or the judiciary ... where does the $500 go?

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3 hours ago, Baz (NZ) said:

Not suggesting for a second that jocks are out to Rort ,but no whips creates issues involving integrity, the whip portrays confidence as someone is ‘seen’ to be trying when it’s being flailed ? Would certainly help the stronger and more technical of riders one would think....this would be the perspective of an ignorant punter anyway :rcf-thinking:

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6 hours ago, Baz (NZ) said:

Norway ahead game , the rest following re  no whip . Walter Buick,  William Buick's father was on Racing TV a month back. He has extensive experience riding the Scandinavian circuit . They only gave him a minute which was part of talking point segment  but he would be the man for NZTR to contact as he went through the whole process of whip rules modifications as it changed over the years  . He guards against total ban as in his opinion it changes  things quite dramatically . He said every race full bore there now as drop a lot  horses out its tough to light them up later in race as no whip to even show them .Sweden and Denmark allowed three cracks . 

The Kick On Maiden Chase on Pakaranga Hunt Club day is what needs sorting , both jocks employed plenty whip , plenty on run in  and felt need to crack three in row bang bang bang machine gun style a few times on both horses . No mention  in stipes but I'd suggest the racing authorities do not use that film as publicity to entice youngsters to game .Straight out of 1970s , would be better viewed on black and white TV for retro effect .Most places both be gone for month. 

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On 9/16/2019 at 12:17 AM, Baz (NZ) said:

I have now re-watched the Replay. Hmmm...I still struggle with this decision. :unsure:

Comparing Rodmar's rider Reece Cole's whip use up the straight (4-5 Strikes) while in front to that of Guy Fox's rider Kayla Veenendaal (16+ Strikes) at the back last?

I understand what the stewards are trying to prevent...but which is worse? Whip Use is Whip Use regardless of your position in the field.
I want confidence in the riders judgement/ability on a horse I have $$$ invested to get it across the line as fast as possible! It's a race!
Especially on Winter tracks when horses can easily fall in a hole when not kept up to the task!
OPIE BOSSON - WATCH OFFICER 1998 Kiwifruit Cup at Tauranga

I didn't think that was Opie. I may be wrong. Memory not as sharp as once was.

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6 minutes ago, gubellini said:

Jape yes Opie rode Watch Officer in the 1998 Kiwifruit Cup at Tauranga. Quasin and Kim Taylor caught them on the line and won by a nose with 5 lengths back to Kings Ransom and Cath Treymane.

Yes, I remember it with some fondness, I struck the pick 6 numerous times; paid out on four winners if I remember correctly. Classic example of not riding a horse out. I am pretty sure he got a decent suspension for it.

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15 minutes ago, gubellini said:

Jape yes Opie rode Watch Officer in the 1998 Kiwifruit Cup at Tauranga. Quasin and Kim Taylor caught them on the line and won by a nose with 5 lengths back to Kings Ransom and Cath Treymane.

Thank you.

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2 hours ago, gubellini said:

Jape yes Opie rode Watch Officer in the 1998 Kiwifruit Cup at Tauranga. Quasin and Kim Taylor caught them on the line and won by a nose with 5 lengths back to Kings Ransom and Cath Treymane.

Almost a quarter of a century on and still it lingers.....

I wonder if he’s forgotten :rcf-thinking: :rcf-sad-8: hasn’t eaten  a kiwi fruit since :rcf-angry:

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