Standing starts

[Iraklis 2,265]

And that's exactly my point Pure mate, they are Stand Starts! Starters need to have accountability for the stuffin starts, end of.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

[Thejanitor 1,292]

On 6/10/2024 at 4:37 PM, Iraklis said:

So where do the Starters get their trainin? and maybe it's time they were held accountable for their bad stand start efforts....

 

Cheers Iraklis

 

4 hours ago, Iraklis said:

Well if that's so FF, then why so many amatuerish stand start displays? it's summit that clearly needs tidyin up by HRNZ, cos the way things are it's not fit for purpose! Starters are either in control as per their licence criteria, or there needs to be real accountability applied in the form of a fine etc...

 

Cheers Iraklis

You are right my old mate. Starters must face penalties. I don't think fines are the way to because one of their mates will put a sling on for them. Perhaps, fine them if it minor first offence. But rough starts where horses are rearing, backing away, facing the wrong direction and the field is let go. No way Iraklis mate. This starter should be suspended for a month, no pay. If he keeps stuffing up, six months, sack him. You are on the money I give you the tip, mate. Starts are a shambles and it has to be fixed pronto.

[Spikecity 812]

21 hours ago, unhinged said:

The main thing starters are judged on is starts on time, if they are outside a minute they are bumped off Australia TV so they have very little time to get it right. 

I didn't know that but can't see a lot of difference between false start from the mobile (which seems to happen a lot more than it should) and horses holding up the standing start.

If the trainer can't get the horse to stand - keep it in mobile start races.

It would be great if you could ask John Dunn and how he always times it right.

I am not accusing any skulduggery but the starter is close mates with several drivers and it is human nature to make sure your friends are ok first  

[Friend Family 356]

You nailed it Spike ....being friends with the starter is a decided advantage ....'nudge nudge wink wink' .....not strictly against the rules but by god it helps it get a 'walk-up'.

[Thejanitor 1,292]

4 hours ago, Friend Family said:

You nailed it Spike ....being friends with the starter is a decided advantage ....'nudge nudge wink wink' .....not strictly against the rules but by god it helps it get a 'walk-up'.

Probably a few "slings" involved.... shhhhh!!!

[Ohokaman 6,009]

Alexandra Park are looking for starters assistants if any of you are interested……

[Spikecity 812]

https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=C5694EDC-D064-457B-BEC6-C22D38F98627&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE

Beauview Topaz - Hard to know if John Dunn is a mind reader or if the starter has a dollar or two on the horse.

Bang go and the Beauview Topaz has a length on the field and travelling.

Yes it didn't show much fight but highlights again how weak the starter is when the field are not on the same level.

Donkey Donnelly has learnt well off his teacher Mr RIGHTTTTTTTTTT 

While I am on the moan Alan Clark put a professional driver on and your horse will win a race or two (George Eliot for example) - your respect on the track is nil - you will never be given the lead doesn't matter how much you want it. 

[MisterEd 355]

17 hours ago, Spikecity said:

https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=C5694EDC-D064-457B-BEC6-C22D38F98627&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE

Beauview Topaz - Hard to know if John Dunn is a mind reader or if the starter has a dollar or two on the horse.

Bang go and the Beauview Topaz has a length on the field and travelling.

Yes it didn't show much fight but highlights again how weak the starter is when the field are not on the same level.

Donkey Donnelly has learnt well off his teacher Mr RIGHTTTTTTTTTT 

While I am on the moan Alan Clark put a professional driver on and your horse will win a race or two (George Eliot for example) - your respect on the track is nil - you will never be given the lead doesn't matter how much you want it. 

I agree look at George Elliot and the difference in results is night and day when Trevor Grant is not in the sulky. Rachmaninov would have had a lot more success if Trevor didn't drive it week after week. Would certainly have won double the prize money at least.

Betterthandiva another one who got instant results when John Dunn got on and was not driven by Dobbs.

Imperial Command a string of badly driven non placings and Peter Davis gets on. Bang third at big odds and nearly won. (I got a packet off that one at $16 the place and would have needed the armoured car if had won at $71.00) 

[Keneperu 406]

Geeeez guys .I know what your saying and probably right but these 2 guys do the hard yards at home,do the paying etc etc. They enjoy what they are doing and it's people like them that keep the game going. If you don't like the way they drive keep your money in your pocket. The sport is struggling re the loss of heaps(and I mean heaps) of owners and trainers. 

[MisterEd 355]

52 minutes ago, Keneperu said:

If you don't like the way they drive keep your money in your pocket

Hey I never back the horses they are driving, only when someone else jumps on.

But you bring up a valid point. Perhaps the Trevor Grants and Alan Clarkes are just happy running around  just getting the odd placing here or there instead of moving their horses up through the grades.

[eljay 1,751]

How can you "train" a starter?       You can't learn that at school.      The authorities try to tell the starters what to do but they have never started a race full time to be an expert on the subject.      They can bring in ""experienced" drivers or trainers but again they never done it especially under race night conditions.      So it's an art that you can really "grow into".       They do have the occasional meetings between themselves and we can only hope they shar knowledge and tips this way.     We dont really want one person being a dictator do we?

[CeeMeNow 232]

On 6/9/2024 at 7:59 PM, Spikecity said:

Exactly - have a look at the trot today with Very Majestic - it was at almost full speed when the tapes were let go

https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=C1E8D974-65F0-4098-911F-BF6DD79CFBE2&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE

My gripe is not through my pocket as I have a sizable bet on the Dunns to win the premiership and was happy to see the horse half way through the field after 200M from the unruly - not so happy when it flew to bits at the 400 hehe 

I watched that race as well, with the two horses out the back I thought it must have been a handicap race, it was not where I would have expected to see unruly horses, at no time were they actually lined up and standing.

It used to be that there were only two reasons to be on the unruly, 1- the stipes sent you there as punishment for bad behavior, 2- trainers request, to get you away from the tape and have more room to get balanced and gaited without horses from behind unsettling you.

Now we have a third reason, you don't want a stand, you want a mobile, and the starter and R?B will let you get away with it!

The only horse that came close to a stand was the 1 horse, the outside 3 or 4 horse were one length in front of the inside horses on release, it's a misrepresentation to even call it a standing start. 

[Nelli 478]

All these issues arise from using standing starts to handicap horses. There are alternatives. We could adopt what the French do or we could lead the world by developing a mobile HCP system using technology (lasers etc). Why keep using a 100 year old method?

[Spikecity 812]

4 hours ago, Keneperu said:

. They enjoy what they are doing and it's people like them that keep the game going. If you don't like the way they drive keep your money in your pocket. The sport is struggling re the loss of heaps(and I mean heaps) of owners and trainers. 

I totally agree and have never bet on his horse - didn't pick up on the time Peter Davis drove him. But conversely heaps to be made off George Eliot.

Likewise their are plenty of professional driver that aren't worth a pie either and usually it comes down to respect on the track as to what sort of run you are going to get.

We all know or should know the drivers that have earnt the respect and will be given the lead but more importantly we know the ones who have no respect and have to rely entirely on luck or horsepower

[Spikecity 812]

Pete Davis get the money - stablemate murdered again.

Alan the winning post is when you pass it the second time around not the first.

And another butchered for the second time Sonoma Tyron by 6 wide Riley.

Someone needs to talk to her about how when you lose ground early there isn't much point in trying to do the impossible - horses get sick of this pretty quick.

There is always another day

[TurnyTom 1,611]

Clark drove a superb race for his stablemate who enjoyed the fast clip and was on the steel the whole way even if hanging a bit, clearly the trail and Davis suit the horse 

[JJ Flash 2,228]

On 6/16/2024 at 7:16 PM, Spikecity said:

While I am on the moan Alan Clark put a professional driver on and your horse will win a race or two

P Davis agrees after the first at Addington

[JJ Flash 2,228]

19 hours ago, Spikecity said:

Pete Davis get the money - stablemate murdered again.

Yep, he will cook that 2yr old just as we suggested in an earlier post about it

As for Clarks driving ability you know he is a potential liability  and thus you must bet accordingly.

[Spikecity 812]

1 hour ago, JJ Flash said:

 

As for Clarks driving ability you know he is a potential liability  and thus you must bet accordingly.

There are a few others in the same category but these others are supposedly professionals 

[MisterEd 355]

21 hours ago, Spikecity said:

Pete Davis get the money - stablemate murdered again.

Alan the winning post is when you pass it the second time around not the first.

And another butchered for the second time Sonoma Tyron by 6 wide Riley.

Someone needs to talk to her about how when you lose ground early there isn't much point in trying to do the impossible - horses get sick of this pretty quick.

There is always another day

Imperial Command opening at 11.00 with Davis driving was badly priced. Thanks again TAB for filling my account.

[JJ Flash 2,228]

14 hours ago, MisterEd said:

Imperial Command opening at 11.00 with Davis driving was badly priced. Thanks again TAB for filling my account.

Should have paid more IMO ,having its 38th start as a 3yr old for only its 2nd  win. 

[Spikecity 812]

Race 5 today another Peter Lamb special - absolute shocker

[Dynamite 381]

How can you bet on standing starts in Addington races….. they are staggered starts…. Some standing….. Some walking….. Some running….. and all three of the above are happening in each race….

[Pure Steel 1,382]

On 6/30/2024 at 5:32 AM, JJ Flash said:

Should have paid more IMO ,having its 38th start as a 3yr old for only its 2nd  win. 

Yes they have to a better strike rate than that to be a good bet IMO too lol.

Last night I spotted a considered ''good risk' bet  . The Horse had won 10 of it's past 12 starts. 2 wins in his last 5 starts were super quick sub 1.49 miles !! a fricken flying machine !!! go Jeff lol. 

And it paid $4.00 for the place!!! . (wish it got 2nd for my trifecta) but anyway , it was certainly a 'good risk ' with that form. 

Can't understand how these guys 'fill-up' on a horse like Imperial Command that has 2 wins from 41 starts. How the hell do you know what start it is going to win (or even place at)  at ? you need a lot of luck and a wing and a prayer on those sort of horses. 

Bet N Win would be a lot better bet if you wanted to be daring and risk your cash on squaregaiters trotters lol.