where stakes money goes

[john legend 744]

Its been said before BUT.... greyhounds must have a secret hotline to the "money gods" for example this weeks meeting Hatrick Wanganui.. total stakes approx $150000 !!! To say the Greyhound industry pays for this level is simply wrong. It has to be a subsidised amount from horse racing... (ps not a lot of sponsorship )Another fact is Coles line up approx 60 dogs so should have great pay day !! (Maybe a little envious)can anyone in harness racing explain how Greyhounds appear to get a bigger slice of the pie.

[john legend 744]

To make matters worse in daylight checked figures stakes actually around 188000.00 for the night !

[canon47 83]

Doggie Money Gods hiding   somewhere Just look at multi thousands spent at Hattricks Wanganui and the New straight grass track at Wanganui race course. Looking at % of tote turn over and capital investment in theory there should be enough for conversion of either  Levin or Strafford to an all year grass Harness 

 

[Keneperu 362]

Simple answer. Don't bet on the parasites. They are slowly strangling horse racing with a saturation of meetings set up for Coles and McInerney. 

Every dollar bet on them helps them

[tasman man 742]

17 hours ago, john legend said:

Its been said before BUT.... greyhounds must have a secret hotline to the "money gods" for example this weeks meeting Hatrick Wanganui.. total stakes approx $150000 !!! To say the Greyhound industry pays for this level is simply wrong. It has to be a subsidised amount from horse racing... (ps not a lot of sponsorship )Another fact is Coles line up approx 60 dogs so should have great pay day !! (Maybe a little envious)can anyone in harness racing explain how Greyhounds appear to get a bigger slice of the pie.

Harness followers typically blame everyone else for their woes !

When I last checked Harness was the code that was receiving more than it actually deserved through betting numbers.

Harness turnover slumped some 30 % odd , in recent years ,while greyhound turnover was growing and they were being rewarded with more meetings as a result.

Of course the Doggies now under real pressure to continue ,which should help Harness but does it ?

This weeks Stakes are for a Group 1 night with $30k and $50k races so not your normal meeting or stakes. 

Pre -covid times both Domestic turnover and GBR share was Gallops 54% , Harness 27%,Doggies 19%

But overseas betting was Gallops 65% ,Harness 12% , and Doggies 23%.....this explained by the huge number of races imported.

Meanwhile Code Funding was approx Gallops 54% ,  Harness 30 % and Doggies 16%.

A vagary here is that the doggies cost to operate the same as harness ,so harness got nearly 3 x for Stakes.

Over the last 10 years Harness races have decreased every year ...over 2740 domestic in 2013 , 2469 in 2019

The Doggies increased from 5288 in 2013 to 5836 in 2019......they 4933 last year so now on decline too and under threat of extinction..

But total Imported races went from 58141 in 2013 to over 80000 in recent years. Gallops and doggies well ahead here cf Harness.

So doggies not advantaged on Code Funding , but hey , don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Some say I work for TAB , but anyone can have a look at the published Reports online !

 

[Nelli 434]

It will be interesting to see if Entain introduces more overseas harness. At present we just get Aussie (where we can follow all our NZ exports) and a few random races from the States.  I guess time zone issues are problematic but in Aussie pubs I've even seen cold blood trotting from Sweden.

While I never bet on the dogs, I like watching them at  duel code meetings. I think the declining betting on harness racing has little to do with the dogs and more to do with a mix of other factors, including the economy and a rating system that seems to promote the export of our more exciting horses.

[john legend 744]

Tasman Man the facts of your story are misleading at best. the imports be they dogs/horses/camel racing/dogs have no relevance to nz greyhounds getting or deserving more handouts. It is simply as You know a fav. word of the TAB """ extra product""" and 1 which entain and nz racing do not want to encourage. This is a group night true in Whanganui. BUT ordinary races outside the group races eg. all averaging around $7000. If the turnover and sponsorship and any on course profits from say crowd of 100 come anywhere near break even it would be in the fiction section of the library. After watching Beach FlyBye  fly to victory in race 2 (Addington) I will go out to Hatrick and get some facts ...PS. The decline in Harness Racing has been helped by lack of any vision for the future eg wanting to close whole areas of our great sport to save money  and decline of any push outside computers and trackside channels ! 

[john legend 744]

Easy to predict future with horsepower that Beach Flybye possess(downbythe seaside) Of course also predictable Coles get major share with 7 wins from 11 completed and placings everywhere.My 100 people was poss generous and most enthusiastic owners. but watching tote figures pitiful for a group night (even allowing for unknown FO totals )Sad that big race abandoned especially for the 2 dogs way in front !! Didnt handlers used to dress up a bit for a group 1 night of racing ? Still suppose it is whangas and we more relaxed here. !

[canon47 83]

Dont know what the issue was But didnt they re-run the big race straight after the abandon run

 

[john legend 744]

No Canon the race was officially abandoned as they had travelled too far. A dog had fallen in first lap and was still standing on the track so lure driver forced to stop race. There was another $30000 race run after the abandoned one . I presume they may run it next week if participants happy. they had money to burn 2 X $30000 1 20000 and why not have a $50000 as well as plenty others . 

Edited June 24, 2023 by john legend
added info

[mikenz 1,093]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:45 PM, Keneperu said:

Simple answer. Don't bet on the parasites. They are slowly strangling horse racing with a saturation of meetings set up for Coles and McInerney. 

Every dollar bet on them helps them

I was just thinking on Wednesday briefly thinking about trackside and the cost of covering some of these Greyhound meetings, it was actually the Ascot Park ones, does the turnover justify the cost, I'm not sure but I think most of the trackside   crew were gone, now ,  not sure but I think the tv crew may come from Christchurch,  I may be wrong.

[mikenz 1,093]

Interesting article on stuff about TAB reducing its rural service, if they want to cut cost then maybe stop sending to crews to non events like Greyhounds in invers, most of the runners were all from one trainer anyway.

[Hi Ho Silver 785]

What do they mean, reducing its rural service?

[mikenz 1,093]

You will have to read it, was on stuffs front page today.

 

 

 

 

[MisterEd 332]

 

On 6/22/2023 at 11:37 PM, tasman man said:

Harness followers typically blame everyone else for their woes !

When I last checked Harness was the code that was receiving more than it actually deserved through betting numbers.

Harness turnover slumped some 30 % odd , in recent years ,while greyhound turnover was growing and they were being rewarded with more meetings as a result.

Of course the Doggies now under real pressure to continue ,which should help Harness but does it ?

This weeks Stakes are for a Group 1 night with $30k and $50k races so not your normal meeting or stakes. 

Pre -covid times both Domestic turnover and GBR share was Gallops 54% , Harness 27%,Doggies 19%

But overseas betting was Gallops 65% ,Harness 12% , and Doggies 23%.....this explained by the huge number of races imported.

Meanwhile Code Funding was approx Gallops 54% ,  Harness 30 % and Doggies 16%.

A vagary here is that the doggies cost to operate the same as harness ,so harness got nearly 3 x for Stakes.

Over the last 10 years Harness races have decreased every year ...over 2740 domestic in 2013 , 2469 in 2019

The Doggies increased from 5288 in 2013 to 5836 in 2019......they 4933 last year so now on decline too and under threat of extinction..

But total Imported races went from 58141 in 2013 to over 80000 in recent years. Gallops and doggies well ahead here cf Harness.

So doggies not advantaged on Code Funding , but hey , don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Some say I work for TAB , but anyone can have a look at the published Reports online !

 

You are right, Dogs are probably propping the harness up at the moment but what happens when the funding actually start reflecting the percentages correctly. Harness is in the shit. It might happen sooner than anyone thinks.

[john legend 744]

get a life Mr Ed, you obviously been to the charm school of D. Trump. If you keep repeating a falsehood someone some where may start to believe you. ie dogs propping up harness racing. let see how good greyhounds go without the facilities provided by trotting at million of dollars at say manawatu,Cambridge ,Ascot Park and Christchurch.!!The Greyhounds were regarded as "polyfilla"by the TAB  (to fill in the gaps between real races. UNfortunately  it is cheaper all round to race and train and transport greyhoundsand inevitably the polyfilla through squeezing the tube  hard have  through sheer volume got their turnover up .But remember harness Racing is here to stay and greyhounds still have a rocky future.. 

[Hi Ho Silver 785]

On 6/25/2023 at 8:37 PM, mikenz said:

You will have to read it, was on stuffs front page today.

 

 

 

 

Well that did seem harsh to cut them off at the knees when they turn over $19K per week when the expectation is $20K.  At least it shows TAB/Entain have listened and found a self serve terminal as a compromise to closure.