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Platinum command enq

31 posts in this topic

In the room, will be interesting to see how they see this,our king sway came from behind this horse went around it as Elliot fell asleep and then gets squeezed as king sway moves in slightly the same time the inside horse comes out...would it of beaten winner???? Looked a hard luck story (due to nature of ride) but a relegation no.Danis first winning ride and a good one

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I thought the decision was a little harsh. The original winner didn't didn't change his ground significantly and the major interference seemed to be caused as much by I think it was the eventual winner moving out. Consistency seems to be the big problem in these decisions. The affected horse also had the length of the straight to get past the winner.

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Yes also thought the decision was harsh seeing the inside horse also came out, and then he decides to loose more ground by pulling Platinium Command about another 5-6 horse widths away from the rest of the field. I am talking thru my wallet though because I had OKS on an FF Win with 7 other horses at Ellerslie and Wanganui.

Also had Ngatira Gold the other week and his relegation cost me the Quaddie on the day and also thought his relegation was a bit harsh.

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This decision shouldnt be about the money involved it should rest on what is fair,how many times do you get beaten from not getting a run due to other riders beating you to a gap? No consistency in these decisions and carrys on from the ngatira gold farce. Amatuers

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This is a joke.

PC tried to go into s marginal gap between King Sway and Zorrali,the first slight movement came from Zorrali,

Ryan Elliot will one day be a good rider but today wasn't his best,his ride Banbury Lad was terrible,go back look at how much ground he lost around the 850m mark and they were walking up front.I have not read the Stewards report but you would think if they were watching the same race,they surely would ask a question.

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2 hours ago, Midget said:

This is a joke.

PC tried to go into s marginal gap between King Sway and Zorrali,the first slight movement came from Zorrali,

Ryan Elliot will one day be a good rider but today wasn't his best,his ride Banbury Lad was terrible,go back look at how much ground he lost around the 850m mark and they were walking up front.I have not read the Stewards report but you would think if they were watching the same race,they surely would ask a question.

You are completely wrong, re-look at the video a few times.

PC had every right to be where it was as it was already in the gap when Zoralli came out toward it and King Sway bored in onto it under the whip, costing it min 2-3 lengths. it made up a stack of ground to get within a length of the Our King Sway & I have no doubt that PC would have won the race had that interference not occurred.

The correct decision was made.

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I feel so sorry for the young rider Danis. That was up there with the best rides all day at Ellerslie and he comes away with nothing (apart from a punishment from those tossers in the room). OKS doesnt even move half a horse width inwards - how is that a justified relegation??!! The movement was minimal and he had no vision of PC at all. Meanwhile Elliot makes a very poor decision, starts using an extravagant whip style and gets rewarded by moving from 2nd to 3rd. 

I never had a bet in the race but it put me off for most of the day - thats how sour these administrators and judges are making it for some punters.

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Seriously Torch are you watching the same race?.

What poor decision did Elliot make? he was entitled to be where he was, he was holding his line and running through when OKS bored in at least a horse length and denied him clear running, loses 2-3 lengths then comes to the outside and flashes home to be with-in a length. No interference and he wins easily.

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14 hours ago, barryb said:

You are completely wrong, re-look at the video a few times.

PC had every right to be where it was as it was already in the gap when Zoralli came out toward it and King Sway bored in onto it under the whip, costing it min 2-3 lengths. it made up a stack of ground to get within a length of the Our King Sway & I have no doubt that PC would have won the race had that interference not occurred.

The correct decision was made.

You are a perfect advertisement  for Spec Savers.

You at least saw that Zoralli came out and you are correct and that was the first marginal movement in this incident and so there was contributing factors in this and clearly they were ignored by Oatham and the RIU when the decision was issued.

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From the 600 mark Elliott has his mount tracking in a 3 wide line and maintains this, at the 450 Zoralli comes off the fence and out to meet Elliott's mount, whilst Our King Sway starts to lay in under the whip action of Danis. At the 350 mark OKS has moved in over a length and checks PC, sending it into Zoralli. OKS continues its movement in forcing PC out the back.

The result is PC loses 2-3 lengths, comes to the outside and powers home to get with-in a length, strong grounds for protest and the correct outcome was made.

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Looks to be another very dubious decision, and inconsistent.

Firstly the grey horse was travelling far better than PC when it ran past it about the 350 mark, PC was already under a ride and had been for some time, secondly the kid on PC bottled it, he bailed out, if he'd have been travelling well enough or had a bit of ticker he'd have kicked up and held his position no problem. He needs a bit of friendly advice that kid, it's a crook look when a youngster waves the white flag like that.

When he did bail out he over exaggerated the process and cost himself a couple of lengths, then for some inexplicable reason he decided to ease another couple of horse widths wider and get rebalanced to make another run.

Clearly the race was run at a very fast tempo ( first three home were last three all the way ) and what made PC look better was that the grey horse eased up the last 50.

As for Zorrali, well given that he was a significant contributor to the initial squeeze he's had a great day, gifted the race and no accountability !! Mind you he's a great old horse that Zorrali, goes to the races more times than George Simon and thoroughly deserved a win, but not in that manner.

The way to resolve this inconsistency is to have video standards available to those involved, incidents that show historical precedents and examples of previous decisions, then that travesty would've been avoided because I can think of half a dozen similar cases that don't reconcile with that decision yesterday.

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4 minutes ago, Midget said:

Looks to be another very dubious decision, and inconsistent.

Firstly the grey horse was travelling far better than PC when it ran past it about the 350 mark, PC was already under a ride and had been for some time, secondly the kid on PC bottled it, he bailed out, if he have been travelling well enough or had a bit of ticker he'd have kicked up and held his position no problem. He needs a bit of friendly advice that kid, it's a crook look when a youngster waves the white flag like that.

When he did bail out he over exaggerated the process and cost himself a couple of lengths, then for some inexplicable reason he decided to ease another couple of horse widths wider and get rebalanced to make another run.

Clearly the race was run at a very fast tempo ( first three home were last three all the way ) and what made PC look better was that the grey horse eased up the last 50.

As for Zorrali, well given that he was a significant contributor to the initial squeeze he's had a great day, gifted the race and no accountability !! Mind you he's a great old horse that Zorrali, goes to the races more times than George Simon and thoroughly deserved a win, but not in that manner.

The way to resolve this inconsistency is to have video standards available to those involved, incidents that show historical precedents and examples of previous decisions, then that travesty would've been avoided because I can think of half a dozen similar cases that don't reconcile with that decision yesterday.

Well said, summed up beautifully...

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25 minutes ago, Ponderosa8 said:

Well said, summed up beautifully...

I think the two Cafers offering the most rational explanations and interpretations might've been in that situation about 7000 times between them, mind you you've still got to convince the JCA on the day.

Anyway no one died, they all live to fight another day, and the grey horse is now a winner without a rehandicap.

That's racing, you can't win 'em all and you've got to take the good with the bad.

As an aside does anyone know what the stipes recommended to the JCA in their closing submission ?

I note the kid on PC had 5 rides yesterday, and led across the top on 4 of them ( the other one couldn't keep up ) but got run down every time. Either he can't judge pace or he's stuck in a rut riding everything in the open, or leading. Neither is a good look and normally indicates an underlying issue with his riding.

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1 hour ago, Midget said:

The way to resolve this inconsistency is to have video standards available to those involved, incidents that show historical precedents and examples of previous decisions, then that travesty would've been avoided because I can think of half a dozen similar cases that don't reconcile with that decision yesterday.

You are correct of course, and in my view there doesn't need to be 50 people called to give evidence and a JCA empaneled to waste time hearing, ajudicating and indicting at a raceday inquiry.

By all means have a JCA hear and ajudicate at non raceday inquiries and appeals but let stipendiary stewards alone ajudicate on raceday inquiries as they do in Australia.

Any half-baked stipendiary steward should be able to make an informed decision on video evidence alone without wasting time hearing 50 persons give evidence and then a JCA panel ajudicate at a raceday inquiry.


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17 hours ago, barryb said:

Seriously Torch are you watching the same race?.

What poor decision did Elliot make? he was entitled to be where he was, he was holding his line and running through when OKS bored in at least a horse length and denied him clear running, loses 2-3 lengths then comes to the outside and flashes home to be with-in a length. No interference and he wins easily.

If you think OKS has moved inwards enough to cause a relegation you are dreaming. That was a ridiculous gap Elliot has gone for. If those two horses hold their lines perfectly PC still would have bumped them in some manner. Why condone poor decision making??!! Danis has done everything correctly - at no stage was it he who shifted the horse inwards. In fact his very capable use of the whip has probably been the ammunition for the relegation even though OKS only moves over an absolute fraction.

So now the precedent has been set. If you know you've made a poor decision as a jock just drive through a gap that isnt there - youre going to get handed a promotion! Fact.

Under your theory bb every rider will need to have rear view mirrors attached to themselves from now on as we all must give way to those in behind. Wake up.

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I don't think you have even watched the video Torch, you appear to be talking about something totally different to what I saw.

Watch the video at the 1:05 mark, he is not going for a gap, he is in the gap (which is about 3-5 mtrs wide) and progressing forward, Danis's mount moves in and connects with it cannoning it into Zoralli.

Now keep watching Torch as the head on footage shows you how much OKS moves in.

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The big thing now is to be consistent. Perhaps keep that video as the new gold standard and if the same thing happens in an Auck Cup or a Derby involving big time owners, trainers and jockeys be brave enough to say "sorry the precedent has been set".

It is a bit like the obstruction law in League; totally stupid most of the time, but at least they are consistent in applying it poorly. Not like rugby which is still totally inconsistent, hence the Aucklander getting away with that spear tackle against Southland, which really turned that whole game.

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Just to be clear, I backed OKS and was livid after. However while my fury has abated, my view's not changed, it was an appalling decision. Danis and OKS were travelling a treat and made use of that moving when they did, neither PC or Elliot were traveling as good hence they were unable to cover the move. While it is clear OKS shifted in, subsequent beneficiary Zorrali just as clearlymoves out, this is a contributing factor and at the very least should have formed part of the inquiry.

Yet in both instances the movement of both was minimal and the gap available to PC at the time was tight, for sure Danis kept a tight line when improving (in OZ, that's called a great ride) but on straightening he did not exactly throw the kitchen sink at OKS, while Elliot having been caught with his pants down threw everything he had at PC. 

I think it a stretch to say PC 100% wins the race, (no disrespect to Elliot but different time, different place perhaps with Danis aboard he would have) however in this instance there are too many mitigating circumstances and you just can't change the result because of one contributing factor unless it the overriding factor. 

It's one of the poorer decisions I've seen, mine was only 20 each way, not the end of the world but it's the accountability of the stewards that concerns me and (as mentioned in other posts) the ramifications for Joe Punter going forward. 

 

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4 hours ago, barryb said:
9 hours ago, barryb said:

From the 600 mark Elliott has his mount tracking in a 3 wide line and maintains this, at the 450 Zoralli comes off the fence and out to meet Elliott's mount, whilst Our King Sway starts to lay in under the whip action of Danis. At the 350 mark OKS has moved in over a length and checks PC, sending it into Zoralli. OKS continues its movement in forcing PC out the back.

The result is PC loses 2-3 lengths, comes to the outside and powers home to get with-in a length, strong grounds for protest and the correct outcome was made.

 

Firstly, has anyone else noticed that virtually all of the debated enquiry decisions on this site over the past couple of years have been on races at Ellerslie.

Darren Danis was robbed of his first win as the result of a poor decision in my view.

Barry, if you look at the Our King Sway's run from the top of the straight (1:02 on the video) he is on the light coloured strip as he swings in. Freeze the frame at that 1:02 and also note where Zorrali and Platinum Command are situated on the track.  Our King Sway kept on that light coloured strip and is still on it at 1:08. Look where the other two are now situated. Our King Sway has kept his line whilst the other two have both clearly made moves outwards. Between 1:08 and 1:12 is where the alleged interference happened   At 1:12 PC is being moved to the outside. Between 1:05 and 1:12 when PC is switching to the outer you have claimed OKS has moved in a horse length. The strips on the ground show that claim is incorrect. 

The horse that has caused the problems for PC is in fact Zorrali who has moved out to go into the same gap between Lucky Feather and OKS, the same gap that PC was also trying to come through.

Now go to to 2:10 which is the head on. At 2:10 when they switch to the head on both PC and Zoralli have already moved out from where they were early in the straight. OKS moved in slightly at  2:11 but at 2.13 was back on the strip he was originally on. Between 2:11 and 2:13 have a look at both Lucky Feather and Zorrali. Freeze the frame on 2:14. Note the gap between Zoralli and Our King Sway and also note how far out LF has moved. Note OKS is on that light strip of ground as previously pointed out. As you can see there is absolutely no gap for PC between Zorrali and OKS and as stated OKS is on the same strip. 

OKS contribution towards the closure of room between LF and himself was absolutely minimal (2/3 of a horse WIDTH) not a horse length as claimed. At 2:18 when PC is well on the outside you will note that OKS moves in and then out but obviously without affecting PC.

Again poor decision in my opinion.         

 

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