scooby3051 10,976 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, chevy86 said: Well why not just make the sale price a 50/50 split then? You forget who takes ALL the risk--purchase price, training fees, transport, NZTR fees, jockey fees etc, etc. The owner pays for the expertise and knowledge via the training fees, and the greater that expertise the higher the fees, just like any voluntary business. You just seem to be a selfish person who thinks he is the only one who matters in the partnership. I have never had an issue ever paying a trainer 10% of any sale we had....but thats just me and thats why i have had such a great relationship with my trainer for so long. Insider 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseacol 2,488 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, scooby3051 said: You just seem to be a selfish person who thinks he is the only one who matters in the partnership. I have never had an issue ever paying a trainer 10% of any sale we had....but thats just me and thats why i have had such a great relationship with my trainer for so long. If it is a partnership why doesn't the trainer share in losses ? Don't think that analogy stands up. How about a horse purchased at the sales. Let's say costs $80,000. Three years later is sold for %40,000. Owner loses $40k plus another $4k paid to trainer on the sale price (plus GST so even worse for most owners) ..... quite a unique set up this. I accept it is what it is - and not knocking trainers. Just interested GOM, barryb, chevy86 and 2 others 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad 1,559 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 22 minutes ago, scooby3051 said: So the trainers expertise and knowledge is worth nothing...better you do the job yourself... As the saying goes, if you are going to ruin a horse, you might as well do it to your own specifications. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,976 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, chelseacol said: If it is a partnership why doesn't the trainer share in losses ? Don't think that analogy stands up. How about a horse purchased at the sales. Let's say costs $80,000. Three years later is sold for %40,000. Owner loses $40k plus another $4k paid to trainer on the sale price (plus GST so even worse for most owners) ..... quite a unique set up this. I accept it is what it is - and not knocking trainers. Just interested Thats the risk you take as an owner and for me it is a no brainer but some in here just seem to want to win everywhere and place no value on the trainers at all...greed comes to mind. anyway i will always be happy to share if i am lucky enough to get a win from a sale... but some in here seem unwilling... thats just my standard I guess.... I appreciate the hard work the trainer and his team do aside from what i may have to pay to have him train my horse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,976 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Shad said: As the saying goes, if you are going to ruin a horse, you might as well do it to your own specifications. go ahead....many a business man and successful ones have thought the same coming into the industry and most have lost the lot... but hey keep dreaming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, scooby3051 said: Thats the risk you take as an owner and for me it is a no brainer but some in here just seem to want to win everywhere and place no value on the trainers at all...greed comes to mind. anyway i will always be happy to share if i am lucky enough to get a win from a sale... but some in here seem unwilling... thats just my standard I guess.... I appreciate the hard work the trainer and his team do aside from what i may have to pay to have him train my horse. Hang on a minute are you saying that a trainer doesn't cover their costs plus a margin? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,976 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, 2Admin2 said: Hang on a minute are you saying that a trainer doesn't cover their costs plus a margin? I said I am happy to give 10%...which part of that is difficult to understand....Many trainers make little or nothing out of training fees, and that is A FACT. Aaron Bidlake and Belinda 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, scooby3051 said: I said I am happy to give 10%...which part of that is difficult to understand....Many trainers make little or nothing out of training fees, and that is A FACT. Well then they aren't charging enough. If I risk my capital and then pay all the fees why should I pay the trainer 10% when someone wants MY asset? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,976 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, 2Admin2 said: Well then they aren't charging enough. If I risk my capital and then pay all the fees why should I pay the trainer 10% when someone wants MY asset? Your choice...mine is we are a team so why not give him something for helping me to get the ASSET to what its worth... as I say I try to be fair...not greedy.... Nicky47 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess 1,244 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 Have never signed such a form or even discussed it but it was my understanding that if I sold a horse the trainer would be due 10% - and I expect the trainer would thought likewise. Possibly not enforceable without the formal contract - but that wouldn't have come into it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, scooby3051 said: Your choice...mine is we are a team so why not give him something for helping me to get the ASSET to what its worth... as I say I try to be fair...not greedy.... Excuse me I risk my capital and pay all the costs and I'm greedy for not giving the trainer 10%? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,976 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, 2Admin2 said: Excuse me I risk my capital and pay all the costs and I'm greedy for not giving the trainer 10%? I said that is MY opinion of which the last time I checked I was entitled too.... I bet my relationships with my trainers lasts a lot longer and is more successful than yours...also JMHO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, scooby3051 said: I said that is MY opinion of which the last time I checked I was entitled too.... I bet my relationships with my trainers lasts a lot longer and is more successful than yours...also JMHO. Really? But that sums it up doesn't it. Racing is a lottery or ponzi scheme. As for my relationships I'd make it quite clear up front what was what. As I have. JMHO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,976 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 40 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said: Really? But that sums it up doesn't it. Racing is a lottery or ponzi scheme. As for my relationships I'd make it quite clear up front what was what. As I have. JMHO. Your choice i choose to be a fair and decent person...JMHO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, scooby3051 said: Your choice i choose to be a fair and decent person...JMHO. So would you give the person who broke the horse in or the pre-trainer who trained it for 8 weeks or the trainer who trained the horse for 4 weeks before its first win 10%? As a decent person and one who understands what is required to get a horse to win I would have paid the first two more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,976 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, 2Admin2 said: So would you give the person who broke the horse in or the pre-trainer who trained it for 8 weeks or the trainer who trained the horse for 4 weeks before its first win 10%? As a decent person and one who understands what is required to get a horse to win I would have paid the first two more. You really are worse than a woman always need to have the last say.....as i said do whatever you feel comfortable doing...your choice... mine is to do as i do...is that to hard to understand. Belinda 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 Not one of those trainers that bought a horse out of book 1 this week will break those horses in or pre-train them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, scooby3051 said: You really are worse than a woman always need to have the last say.....as i said do whatever you feel comfortable doing...your choice... mine is to do as i do...is that to hard to understand. Simple questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,976 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, 2Admin2 said: Not one of those trainers that bought a horse out of book 1 this week will break those horses in or pre-train them. Why do you hate trainers so much....??? You really do have a chip on your shoulder sometimes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOM 1,017 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 11 hours ago, scooby3051 said: You really are worse than a woman always need to have the last say.....as i said do whatever you feel comfortable doing...your choice... mine is to do as i do...is that to hard to understand. Worse than a woman! careful Scoobs or you are likely to be leading story on 7 sharp when It gets going again Nicky47, chelseacol, Fartoomuch and 2 others 4 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseacol 2,488 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 13 hours ago, scooby3051 said: Why do you hate trainers so much....??? You really do have a chip on your shoulder sometimes. Can we pull this back to a discussion. It's not about hating trainers or greed actually. The fact the status quo in the industry is 10% to trainer is understood. I guess I started this by asking if it is done by everyone and then wondering if it is in fact reasonable. My hypothetical example where the owner loses $40k and still pays the trainer $4k as 10% of sale price to further extend their loss just feels so counter intuitive. I would be more inclined to give the trainer a % of profit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,976 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, chelseacol said: Can we pull this back to a discussion. It's not about hating trainers or greed actually. The fact the status quo in the industry is 10% to trainer is understood. I guess I started this by asking if it is done by everyone and then wondering if it is in fact reasonable. My hypothetical example where the owner loses $40k and still pays the trainer $4k as 10% of sale price to further extend their loss just feels so counter intuitive. I would be more inclined to give the trainer a % of profit. I go in with eyes open win we both win lose well that’s just the way the cards fall sometimes but hey that’s just my view ... each to their own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 1, 2018 3 hours ago, scooby3051 said: I go in with eyes open win we both win lose well that’s just the way the cards fall sometimes but hey that’s just my view ... each to their own. Trainer never loses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 1, 2018 Contracts - given the amount of money at stake I would recommend that every owner and trainer has a signed contact where everything was explicit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,976 Report post Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, 2Admin2 said: Contracts - given the amount of money at stake I would recommend that every owner and trainer has a signed contact where everything was explicit. I call it a handshake...works much better and much better for long term relationships... Insider 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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