Hound Fan

$2000 Import Fee

18 posts in this topic

Just read on another site....greg kerr is going to put a $2000 charge on imported dogs....have to ask were are we going to get race dogs up north greg ? You spoke to me last week asking why we are struggling for noms at waikato ? i explained 2 points one there selection policy 2 the lack of breeding in the north......now you are within 3mnths going to charge $2000 to bring dogs in....it takes 2yrs to breed and race again.....tell you that will make me call it quits...it will be the nail in the coffin....sometimes wonder wether grnz under the latest managment is trying to save the sport or kill it?

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Possibly correct as there was  some discussion about this at the last AGM. I'm of the understanding that this is to cover the cost of the dog going into the NZ GAP program at the end of it's career. However if it returns to Australia then the fee will be refunded. Not sure what happens to the $2k if the dog is to remain here solely as a breeding proposition after retirement and doesn't go to GAP. Maybe it'll be used to offset the costs of all the imports that have gone to GAP in the past. . 

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There has been a robust conversation on another forum about this very subject. I have been following with interest.

Questions:

1. Under what circumstances is the fee refundable? The available info states on return to Australia.

2. What about if the dog dies during its racing career?

3. What if the dog is stood at stud or becomes a broody?

4. What if the dog is not rehomed via GAP, is rehomed via another agency, or is rehomed privately?

5. What if the dog is retired to the owner's couch?

There are many unanswered questions. And what about the puppy farmers and their massive contribution to the rehoming issues we are experiencing presently? Are we doing anything to address that issue?

 

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1 hour ago, Emotive said:

1. Under what circumstances is the fee refundable? The available info states on return to Australia?

Seems pretty straightforward then.

1 hour ago, Emotive said:

2. What about if the dog dies during its racing career?

Return it to Australia, get your money back. Don't, then don't.

1 hour ago, Emotive said:

3. What if the dog is stood at stud or becomes a broody?

Return it to Australia, get your money back. Don't, then don't.

1 hour ago, Emotive said:

4. What if the dog is not rehomed via GAP, is rehomed via another agency, or is rehomed privately?

Return it to Australia, get your money back. Don't, then don't.

1 hour ago, Emotive said:

5. What if the dog is retired to the owner's couch?

Return it to Australia, get your money back. Don't, then don't.

1 hour ago, Emotive said:

And what about the puppy farmers and their massive contribution to the rehoming issues we are experiencing presently? Are we doing anything to address that issue?

Every time there's an attempt to dictate breeding restrictions from above, NZ breeders get upset about being told what to do by people who know less than them. And rightly so, IMO.

Think of the $2000 (should be $5000) Import Fee as not only a fee to cover the cost of Australian dogs being rehomed in NZ, but also as an obstacle to prevent average Australian dogs coming here in the first place. The fewer imported dogs we have in the local racing population, the more room there is for locally-bred dogs. The more room for locally-bred dogs there is, the fewer restrictions that are needed on NZ breeders. The fewer the restrictions on NZ breeders, the more dogs will be bred locally. The more dogs bred in NZ, the more demand there will be for purpose-built rearing, breaking and pretraining facilities run by experts using world-leading skill and technology, which will lead to better NZ-bred dogs.

If you wanted to tweak the import policy, you could say that c5-winning imports get half their import fee refunded and group placegetters/finalists get the whole lot back. So the best performers can stay in NZ for breeding without being penalised.

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23 minutes ago, chiknsmack said:

Seems pretty straightforward then.

Return it to Australia, get your money back. Don't, then don't.

Return it to Australia, get your money back. Don't, then don't.

Return it to Australia, get your money back. Don't, then don't.

Return it to Australia, get your money back. Don't, then don't.

Every time there's an attempt to dictate breeding restrictions from above, NZ breeders get upset about being told what to do by people who know less than them. And rightly so, IMO.

Think of the $2000 (should be $5000) Import Fee as not only a fee to cover the cost of Australian dogs being rehomed in NZ, but also as an obstacle to prevent average Australian dogs coming here in the first place. The fewer imported dogs we have in the local racing population, the more room there is for locally-bred dogs. The more room for locally-bred dogs there is, the fewer restrictions that are needed on NZ breeders. The fewer the restrictions on NZ breeders, the more dogs will be bred locally. The more dogs bred in NZ, the more demand there will be for purpose-built rearing, breaking and pretraining facilities run by experts using world-leading skill and technology, which will lead to better NZ-bred dogs.

If you wanted to tweak the import policy, you could say that c5-winning imports get half their import fee refunded and group placegetters/finalists get the whole lot back. So the best performers can stay in NZ for breeding without being penalised.

The whole industry is based on imports, greyhounds were not an indigenous species. Isn't protectionism grand when it suits. 

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On 4/3/2019 at 5:30 PM, Hound Fan said:

Just read on another site....greg kerr is going to put a $2000 charge on imported dogs....have to ask were are we going to get race dogs up north greg ? You spoke to me last week asking why we are struggling for noms at waikato ? i explained 2 points one there selection policy 2 the lack of breeding in the north......now you are within 3mnths going to charge $2000 to bring dogs in....it takes 2yrs to breed and race again.....tell you that will make me call it quits...it will be the nail in the coffin....sometimes wonder wether grnz under the latest managment is trying to save the sport or kill it?

Yes Steve the northern region has and will continue to become the dumping ground for the 2 biggest puppy farms here in NZ as trainers require replacement racing stock.Dont expect Cup winners etc they will only be sent north when they are past their best and they dont have the worry about there dispersal.Perhaps they should be charged a fee once the dog leaves their racing kennels to goes towards rehoming.

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Surely it’s a supply to demand issue - if you need a few dogs to fill your racing team then either buy a few NZ pups or breed a litter of your own.  I understand it is a lot more work & probably risk than the ready made product  but the reward must be far more fulfilling when you get a big victory?!

I myself have raced mostly imports but would happily go in on a syndicate of a couple of nicely bred local pups - I would even have them trained in the northern region if Auckland could sort out their track!

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13 hours ago, Betting man said:

Surely it’s a supply to demand issue - if you need a few dogs to fill your racing team then either buy a few NZ pups or breed a litter of your own.  I understand it is a lot more work & probably risk than the ready made product  but the reward must be far more fulfilling when you get a big victory?!

I myself have raced mostly imports but would happily go in on a syndicate of a couple of nicely bred local pups - I would even have them trained in the northern region if Auckland could sort out their track!

I have never imported a dog. I try to buy locally if there is a suitable dog available. This tariff is a form of protectionism which discriminates against member choice, and I take issue with that. The various arguments are irrelevant and in some cases unfounded. There are constitutional rights being trampled here. Free trade for one, freedom of choice, member equality, etc. It's BS! Those of you rubbing your hands, there is an old adage, "Be careful what you wish for' the move could bite you in the butt bigtime.

There is a supply issue now if you can find pups for sale at your price, well done. One litter I was interested in sold before the pups were born.

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What you are describing Em is the chicken or the egg scenario. The reason there are no pups for sale is because people realise it is not worth breeding because people are rushing off overseas buying ready to go dogs albeit ready to go where is the question.

I don't think the tariff is going to stop that because a lot of people that were breeding stock have given up the practice I think we could all think of a dozen or so active breeders of the last decade or so that no longer participate in that activity anymore ( I must clarify here that I am talking about dogs not humans or we could all think of hundreds).

Surely blind Freddy can see that our adoption facilities can not keep up with the retired dogs and it comes at great cost to the industry. Why should we subsidise the Aus system and take some of the load off their backs.

The  model we use in our industry is not sustainable. I don't know if that is able to be fixed but we are running out of time quickly. At the moment you could just call our industry a minor extension of the Aus industry,  that is in turmoil itself.

Restriction of trade or whatever is no help to remedy the situation. Take a leaf out of everyone other squealers' book and call it positive reinforcement or positive discrimination if you like but it has merit

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58 minutes ago, GOM said:

What you are describing Em is the chicken or the egg scenario. The reason there are no pups for sale is because people realise it is not worth breeding because people are rushing off overseas buying ready to go dogs albeit ready to go where is the question.

I don't think the tariff is going to stop that because a lot of people that were breeding stock have given up the practice I think we could all think of a dozen or so active breeders of the last decade or so that no longer participate in that activity anymore ( I must clarify here that I am talking about dogs not humans or we could all think of hundreds).

Surely blind Freddy can see that our adoption facilities can not keep up with the retired dogs and it comes at great cost to the industry. Why should we subsidise the Aus system and take some of the load off their backs.

The  model we use in our industry is not sustainable. I don't know if that is able to be fixed but we are running out of time quickly. At the moment you could just call our industry a minor extension of the Aus industry,  that is in turmoil itself.

Restriction of trade or whatever is no help to remedy the situation. Take a leaf out of everyone other squealers' book and call it positive reinforcement or positive discrimination if you like but it has merit

With all due respect GOM. First paragraph. I don't agree. I cannot breed pups at my present location, and I am not the only one affected by location restrictions. If I could breed here I couldn't afford the compliance costs and I cannot afford to purchase an alternative property for the purpose of breeding. Breeding is never going to happen at my property. Have I rushed off to Aus to find race stock, no.

Still with paragraph one, people who import or race, and breed:

Craik, Cole, Roberts, Fahey, Maccas, Clark, Turnwald, Mullane, Adcock, Bell, Walsh, the list goes on. Then there are the people who do not import but race imports taken from other trainers and owners. Then there are the trainers whose age is problematic. Then there are the owners who do not wish to breed but want to be part of this industry. Owners are an important part of this industry. There is a flow on effect from this tariff and it will affect many more than you think. There is not the stock available to purchase in NZ to satisfy demand. If imports are banned which looks like the future agenda, the rehoming issue will still be dire as those who would never contribute to the wastage will be forced to do just that. Wastage is a key issue in our future longevity. This tariff does not address that.

 

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To those of you who think this tariff will fix the issues we have. I follow the GAP list weekly as I have dogs on the list. There are always dogs on the list that were never named. If you increase NZ breeding, the numbers put up for adoption that were never raced will also increase negating any reduction in imports. You are just replacing one with another. The difference being that an import doesn't come with littermates that will never make the track. I can tell you who is placing dogs for adoption without looking the dogs up. We do NOT give these people the help or credit they deserve. I am posting part of a current GAP list. That list contains 5 un-named dogs, one named who never made the track. That list contains a number of imports that ended their careers with secondary trainers. Trainers who were happy to give NZ bred and import hand me downs a second chance and do right by all at retirement. Stop using rehoming as an excuse to justify this tariff. PS There will always be an issue with NZ litters all retiring at the same time. You breed 100 pups in 2019 and 3-4 years down the track you have a possible 100 dogs looking for retirement homes. 
 

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the 250 dogs a year( i don't actually know if this is the no.coming in) are as a rule ready made race dogs.....

if these cease they will need to be replaced by NZ breed pups or we will lose racing dates and then revenue you cant have both less dogs and same racing without causing another welfare issue........... too get the 250 race dogs i would imagine it will take at least 500 more NZ breed pups a year and who,s going too breed them??  another 150 bigtimes 150 homebushes?  wouldn't this really help our code.......

the ideology behind these anti-import policies is that we are some how helping the Australian industry by taking these dogs, in the 17/18 season Victoria alone re homed 2600 dogs,nationwide i would imagine in 18/19 season they would be re homing well over 5 or 6000 dogs could even be more so 250 would not make alot of difference.......

i would like too think welfare is at the top of everyone's agenda but this policy would make no difference what so ever, its all most a "green policy" mostly feel good but very little common sense......

 

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The more I think about it the more I can see this as only being a retrograde step. As Emotive rightly points out when the number of imports drops (I suspect it has already started - given the shortage of dogs in Australia at present) then NZ dogs will be required to be bred to fill the numbers. There will be no tarriff to reduce the GAP costs to rehome those dogs and GRNZ will have to rely solely on industry money to offset the cost.

The cost of getting imports is already prohibitive enough (around $3000 per dog for airfare, customs charges and import/registration fee before it even lands here) so no-one is importing really poor quality any longer. 

To breed a litter of pups will cost no less than $3,000 per pup to get it to the track with absolutely no guarantee that it will make the track let alone the grade. That's even more prohibitive for the average participant. Enter the bigger NZ owner/breeders who will take up the slack get even bigger empires and dump even more poor quality dogs onto the smaller trainers. 

 

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15 hours ago, Flabbergasted said:

The more I think about it the more I can see this as only being a retrograde step. As Emotive rightly points out when the number of imports drops (I suspect it has already started - given the shortage of dogs in Australia at present) then NZ dogs will be required to be bred to fill the numbers. There will be no tarriff to reduce the GAP costs to rehome those dogs and GRNZ will have to rely solely on industry money to offset the cost.

The cost of getting imports is already prohibitive enough (around $3000 per dog for airfare, customs charges and import/registration fee before it even lands here) so no-one is importing really poor quality any longer. 

To breed a litter of pups will cost no less than $3,000 per pup to get it to the track with absolutely no guarantee that it will make the track let alone the grade. That's even more prohibitive for the average participant. Enter the bigger NZ owner/breeders who will take up the slack get even bigger empires and dump even more poor quality dogs onto the smaller trainers. 

 

My main point here and as a example which is fact.....one of my owners bred a litter payed to get it reared .broken in at a cost of 30k to 2yrs of age...not one has won a race and 2 have been rehomed through gap with the rest being put on gap list now......before they had imported 3 dogs at a cost off 15k which of none have gone to gap ...so now they have just imported another one at a cost of 6k so they can still enjoy racing dogs.....they have tryed to buy a nz dog but the quality offered is not there all they are getting is cast offs for 6k.....i believe it should be there right to a equal playing field and have the choice....if you want to put a fee on imports do it when they go to gap and then we know were the money has gone........and the bitch breed from won 3 group races over the middle distance...

 

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3 hours ago, Hound Fan said:

My main point here and as a example which is fact.....one of my owners bred a litter payed to get it reared .broken in at a cost of 30k to 2yrs of age...not one has won a race and 2 have been rehomed through gap with the rest being put on gap list now......before they had imported 3 dogs at a cost off 15k which of none have gone to gap ...so now they have just imported another one at a cost of 6k so they can still enjoy racing dogs.....they have tryed to buy a nz dog but the quality offered is not there all they are getting is cast offs for 6k.....i believe it should be there right to a equal playing field and have the choice....if you want to put a fee on imports do it when they go to gap and then we know were the money has gone........and the bitch breed from won 3 group races over the middle distance...

 

When I first became involved in greyhound racing the most attractive attribute was the fact that anyone could become involved and all were welcome. There was plenty of choices which met the needs of all. I could breed a litter and wait, I could import a dog and race immediately, I could choose to buy pups to rear, I could buy hand me downs NZ bred or imported. Any restrictions were down to personal circumstances and personal choice. For small trainers like me, breeding to race comes at a high cost with no guarantee of a positive return. From a purely business perspective, the lack of certainty is prohibitive for many. Most of us don't have the luxury of having owner backing. 

I have heard all the arguments over the years in regard to imports. They are taking our money away, they are taking rehoming places away from our dogs, etc. I have never imported a dog so I cannot be accused of supporting importation for personal gain. Not all but many imports go on to contribute to NZ breeding, I currently have pups sired by an Aussie import. My pups will race as NZ breds. Imports while racing contributes to our betting turnover, I would hazard a guess that the money wagered on them is a significant amount, especially at the top end. That revenue helps support us all. Swift Fantasy single-handedly captured the interest of the nation, being one of the few dogs to rate a mention in prime time news. She still has quite a fan club with non-racing people numbering amongst her fans.

The comment regarding import numbers racing in the North is extremely valid. The number of trainers racing imports  NZ wide is significant. The tariff has been implemented to deter and reduce, but there is no such restriction on the other side, the side solely responsible for wastage. I take issue with that. 2K per dog that stays here, $100 for every unnamed dog put through GAP. That is not acceptable.

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Em, I think that early on the imports definitely upgraded the NZ breed. However the recent influsx of non chasers and fighters (not ot mrention short distance) dogs has downgraded the NZ scene and it's fair to say that a great number of them fit that category. It's a no brainer, Aus has a severe shortage of dogs so the majority of the ones they export are unable to compete there for one reason or other. It was about the time we went for wall to wall coverage that things started the dowhill slide where we focused purely on quantity and not quality

I have a good think about the whole deal and the soution now seems obvious. Reduce the amount of greyhound races in NZ. The trouble with our system is our poulation is too small for the amount greyhounds that reside here. There is much criticism of the amount of races the average NZ dog is asked to partake in each week but if they did not we would not fullfil our quota especially in the North. To a punter most greyhound meetings look boring. Stacked with short distance low grade dogs that appear every week, usually more than once.

      If you gave me last weeks racebook I could just about write out the next few weeks fields with about 90%accuracy. Take one meeting out of each area per week and you would have people jumping up and down that they can not get a start but it would quickly result in both locally bred and imports being reduced thus easing the burden on Gap and fix the overracing problem. 

The nay sayers wil lbe saying that would take away our income but that is what they said about petrol vouchers and they learned to do without them. If we are going to keep things going as at present, on a finacial basis then surely we should have a meeting everyday you can start in to maximise the potential. Silly you say, of couse it is but the present system is based on the same thinking

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