Keneperu 547 Report post Posted January 20 Has there been a rule change re breaking Trotters. Last race Blenheim Sam Ottleys charge gallops for last few meters. I know last race and Stewards wanted to head home (or bar) but strange stewards report concerning this one. Integrity in the sport sure didn't apply to Blenheim holiday meeting. Thejanitor and Dynamite 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
unhinged 133 Report post Posted January 20 29 minutes ago, Keneperu said: Has there been a rule change re breaking Trotters. Last race Blenheim Sam Ottleys charge gallops for last few meters. I know last race and Stewards wanted to head home (or bar) but strange stewards report concerning this one. Integrity in the sport sure didn't apply to Blenheim holiday meeting. The rule is called lapped on, which basically is if the breaking horse is one length ahead of the nearest rival it doesn't get relegated as long as it doesn't breach the distance of the break regulations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Steel 1,877 Report post Posted January 20 6 minutes ago, unhinged said: The rule is called lapped on, which basically is if the breaking horse is one length ahead of the nearest rival it doesn't get relegated as long as it doesn't breach the distance of the break regulations. The Horse wasn't one length ahead of the rivals though. Sam O had taken it through on the very inside about 100m out and it galloped the last 75. should of been Disqualifieded. as most have been in the past that do that. In That same Race > How's Korbyn going training ? his trotter could hardly trot the first day . and shouldn't of even been allowed to start the 2nd day . (where it was even worse beyond words.) Special Effects even knocked the 'Boss' over at the start . John might dock his pay this week ? Thejanitor, Dynamite and Charlie E 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keneperu 547 Report post Posted January 20 Yes agree Pure Steel. Unhinged am well aware of the "lapped on rule". Trouble is they don't always adhere to this rule when it suits it seems. In this case from the video very hard to tell ,many cases in the past that horse would have been out. Its a trotting race not a galloping race and read the stewards report. Havent seen that one before. Like i said last race ,long day punters wont notice. I'll bet if the "Lobster" had done that.....out for sure lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keneperu 547 Report post Posted January 20 From stewards""" failed to lose ground when in a break""" what the hell. In other words in future when galloping hold your ground you'll be fine. "Integrity, consistent decisions " is all mug punters would like. Charlie E and Dynamite 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
unhinged 133 Report post Posted January 21 23 minutes ago, Keneperu said: Yes agree Pure Steel. Unhinged am well aware of the "lapped on rule". Trouble is they don't always adhere to this rule when it suits it seems. In this case from the video very hard to tell ,many cases in the past that horse would have been out. Its a trotting race not a galloping race and read the stewards report. Havent seen that one before. Like i said last race ,long day punters wont notice. I'll bet if the "Lobster" had done that.....out for sure lol I had an inrace bet in that particular race had winner to run in 3 and sam to run in 4 , paying bit over 2 dollars it look like it was just over a length ahead but very hard angle to judge, I did take a hiding for the rest of the day though. Track looked more like a grit Track on the second day with typical grass track horses running appropriately unfortunately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 5,792 Report post Posted January 21 27 minutes ago, Keneperu said: From stewards""" failed to lose ground when in a break""" what the hell. In other words in future when galloping hold your ground you'll be fine. "Integrity, consistent decisions " is all mug punters would like. It was the stipes who thought it should be relegated because it didn't lose ground. The judicial people disagreed. It did gallop across the line, but because the 3rd horse was a length away it held its placing. If the third horse was about 6 inches closer the placings may have changed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie E 590 Report post Posted January 21 3 hours ago, Keneperu said: From stewards""" failed to lose ground when in a break""" what the hell. In other words in future when galloping hold your ground you'll be fine. "Integrity, consistent decisions " is all mug punters would like. That's BS from the stipes , regardless if a horse makes or loses ground in a gallop it shouldn't make any difference Dynamite, Keneperu and Thejanitor 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keneperu 547 Report post Posted January 21 "Judicial People"...who are they? Charlie E 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thejanitor 1,433 Report post Posted January 21 37 minutes ago, Keneperu said: "Judicial People"...who are they? Yes, standards have slipped again. There a lot of warnings handed out but little else. Action needs to be taken, drivers suspended, fined and horses disqualified. Maiden trotters at grass meetings are a shambles with horses breaking, unfit stopping 1000m out. There are too many horses on the unruly, often five or six per race. Horses that break regularly are given numerous warnings, then they have to trial once. Of course it is set up for the horse and it trots ok in the trial Next race start it breaks again and they cycle resumes warnings... Change is needed. Keneperu, Charlie E and Pure Steel 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie E 590 Report post Posted January 21 If Harness NZ is watching for gods sake scrap standing starts everyone has had enough . Tighter accessed horses put them on the outside of the second row . Or these days barrier 5 or 6 lol Pure Steel and Spikecity 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelli 549 Report post Posted January 21 As I've stated multiple times on this site previously, HRNZ should invest in researching, developing and testing the technology to deliver mobile hcp starts. With dropping horse numbers, the need for fair handicapping will increase if we want to keep nice horses racing in NZ, whether trotters or pacers. We breed for speed but unlike novice pacers, before most trotters can even learn to race in a field under race conditions, they have to learn to stand. Its hard for small stables to give their novice charges the necessary experience before racing at trials/workouts with often only 2 or 3 horses in a field. The system makes it inevitable these races are often shambles Charlie E, Thejanitor, Spikecity and 2 others 4 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie E 590 Report post Posted January 21 You probably remember too PS back in the 80's when we drove there was no walk up stands . Your horse literally had to stand there before they let the tapes go . Its an absolute joke now Spikecity, Pure Steel and Keneperu 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelli 549 Report post Posted January 21 33 minutes ago, Charlie E said: You probably remember too PS back in the 80's when we drove there was no walk up stands . Your horse literally had to stand there before they let the tapes go . Its an absolute joke now Back then there were so many horses, if you couldn't win a trial a maiden didn't get start. So horses unable to get stands right never got to race. Now we want every horse with ability at the races. So change is needed. Mobile starts for maidens would be the immediate solution. Spikecity and Charlie E 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keneperu 547 Report post Posted January 22 4 hours ago, Charlie E said: You probably remember too PS back in the 80's when we drove there was no walk up stands . Your horse literally had to stand there before they let the tapes go . Its an absolute joke now Absolutely correct Charlie. Starts now a lottery and it's who can judge the run up. Wooden beach driver head and shoulders( in more ways than one) at perfecting that. Heard he watches a lot of racing on water and he's in the ear of Peter Burling. But Charlie in your day ( and mine) we had Ron Carter best starter by a country mile. Horses in those days were educated to stand and begin. He had respect of all driver's and no favourites. The good old days! Spikecity, Overcheck, Charlie E and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
unhinged 133 Report post Posted January 22 17 minutes ago, Keneperu said: Absolutely correct Charlie. Starts now a lottery and it's who can judge the run up. Wooden beach driver head and shoulders( in more ways than one) at perfecting that. Heard he watches a lot of racing on water and he's in the ear of Peter Burling. But Charlie in your day ( and mine) we had Ron Carter best starter by a country mile. Horses in those days were educated to stand and begin. He had respect of all driver's and no favourites. The good old days! In those days there was no pressure on starter to start on time , unfortunately now the tab time line to broadcast into Australia has tolerance of less than a minute after which the race gets bumped and that revenue has become increasingly important to our industry so your unfortunately right standing starts may become a thing of the past, I hope not. Dynamite and Charlie E 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Steel 1,877 Report post Posted January 22 4 hours ago, Charlie E said: You probably remember too PS back in the 80's when we drove there was no walk up stands . Your horse literally had to stand there before they let the tapes go . Its an absolute joke now Yes even some mid class races (not just beginner/maidens are getting lots of gallopers down south lately. is becoming a bit of an epidemic and needs to be addressed. Rocklea in Brisbane was good stand place Charlie. 100's of horses raced /educated there. very few galloped. Only fit 5 across the front . and No mobile starts as it couldn't fit around track lol. They ALWAYS made you stand right up. Horses head over the strand even. before they would let you go. I remember one starter saying one day when we were fidgeting a bit ' "Jeeezz.. I hang my washing out straighter than you blokes can make a line . at least it will be dry by the time you mug's get this start under way I suppose. " Charlie E, Idolmite, Keneperu and 1 other 1 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamite 532 Report post Posted January 22 3 hours ago, unhinged said: In those days there was no pressure on starter to start on time , unfortunately now the tab time line to broadcast into Australia has tolerance of less than a minute after which the race gets bumped and that revenue has become increasingly important to our industry so your unfortunately right standing starts may become a thing of the past, I hope not. Stand should be a stand start… not run in start… not who can cheat it…. Here we don’t have stands….Victoria make them stand…. As do Brisbane…. NZ may learn….. Pure Steel, Keneperu and Charlie E 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikecity 1,019 Report post Posted January 22 17 hours ago, unhinged said: In those days there was no pressure on starter to start on time , unfortunately now the tab time line to broadcast into Australia has tolerance of less than a minute after which the race gets bumped and that revenue has become increasingly important to our industry so your unfortunately right standing starts may become a thing of the past, I hope not. How many races does he achieve that? With the drivers dictating the actual start and the number of false starts or late scratchings because of unfair starts it is no longer comical - it is a disgrace. All standing starts now are just a raffle and only addicts and fools are liking to bet into them. If the starter and drivers were educated there would be more chance to get the start started on time than now. The problem now is that the starter has no respect from the drivers who try and succeed at conning him into letting them go when it suits them. Your mate Johnny Dunn is recognized by most as being the best at exploiting the starter, so how about asking him about his thoughts on your weekend's at Woodend Beach. Would also interest many about his thoughts on many other topics that people talk about. I shouldn't have to mention what these are - they are talked about often on social media. I don't think John would mind a little one on one about the questions that many talk about. Will watch with interest. Whilst here there was talk about Dexter having a drive or 3 whilst here on holiday. Any word about this and how about an in depth interview with him too sometime. Admire and value your work Nigel and great that you are showing us more than just Woodend lately too. One thing that I would love you too talk about with Johnny is the logistics of what happens when they have say 20+ horse racing at Addington. It must be a hell of a headache arranging everything Keneperu, Dynamite and Charlie E 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
unhinged 133 Report post Posted January 22 5 hours ago, Spikecity said: How many races does he achieve that? With the drivers dictating the actual start and the number of false starts or late scratchings because of unfair starts it is no longer comical - it is a disgrace. All standing starts now are just a raffle and only addicts and fools are liking to bet into them. If the starter and drivers were educated there would be more chance to get the start started on time than now. The problem now is that the starter has no respect from the drivers who try and succeed at conning him into letting them go when it suits them. Your mate Johnny Dunn is recognized by most as being the best at exploiting the starter, so how about asking him about his thoughts on your weekend's at Woodend Beach. Would also interest many about his thoughts on many other topics that people talk about. I shouldn't have to mention what these are - they are talked about often on social media. I don't think John would mind a little one on one about the questions that many talk about. Will watch with interest. Whilst here there was talk about Dexter having a drive or 3 whilst here on holiday. Any word about this and how about an in depth interview with him too sometime. Admire and value your work Nigel and great that you are showing us more than just Woodend lately too. One thing that I would love you too talk about with Johnny is the logistics of what happens when they have say 20+ horse racing at Addington. It must be a hell of a headache arranging everything Dexter's using my car so interview won't be a problem, any questions you'd like me to ask. Dynamite 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamite 532 Report post Posted January 22 8 minutes ago, unhinged said: Dexter's using my car so interview won't be a problem, any questions you'd like me to ask. Is this a name drop…. Questions…. DD thoughts on standing starts…. Mile racing ….. Drivers colours as we have them here in NSW…. Why less horses gallop in America…. Thejanitor and unhinged 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikecity 1,019 Report post Posted January 23 5 hours ago, unhinged said: Dexter's using my car so interview won't be a problem, any questions you'd like me to ask. Racing obviously doesn't stop over there in winter, and I know many go down south to prepare for the coming spring, so isn't it important to spent a lot of time sorting out the upcoming crops of younger horses. Mind you I suppose that how successful he has been owners and trainers will be chasing him rather than the other way around. What's the usual daily grind from first light to going to bed. Why has he and the Australian drivers done so well over there in a totally different environment. Where does he see himself in 5 - 10 - 20 years? Any aspirations to train? Is the leaning back in the cart aerodynamics or for balance? Is it appropriate under NZ racing conditions? Were standing starts as bad back when he was driving here or does he think they have deteriorated (is it possible that Donnelly worse than Lamb - didn't think that was possible - but now I am more thinking "bring back Lamb") Will think of more tomorrow Dynamite 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamite 532 Report post Posted January 23 6 hours ago, unhinged said: Dexter's using my car so interview won't be a problem, any questions you'd like me to ask. Best pacer DD has driven… Best trotter…. Best horse seen…. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie E 590 Report post Posted January 23 4 hours ago, Dynamite said: Best pacer DD has driven… Best trotter…. Best horse seen…. In NZ would think Christian Me Dynamite 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamite 532 Report post Posted January 23 21 hours ago, unhinged said: Dexter's using my car so interview won't be a problem, any questions you'd like me to ask. Is DD married…. Does he have children….. how is life different in American racing to NZ….Racing style preference America or NZ…. I really look forward to the interview…. Some great insight coming up…. Well done Nigel…. Thejanitor 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...