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nomates
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Posts posted by nomates
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25 minutes ago, Baz (NZ) said:
CHAMPION STAYER (2101M +)* = Wolfgang ?
CHAMPION TWO YEAR OLD* = La Dorada ?
CHAMPION THREE YEAR OLD* = Savaglee ?
A shame Damask Rose won't get a look in as she was one of our better 3yo performers.I see She along with La Dorada and Return to conquer have all headed straight to Victoria for spring racing , they are going to leave a huge hole in our spring racing .
Seems all that extra cash hasn't helped retain horses in NZ .
- We're Doomed and Baz (NZ)
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26 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:
I'm noticing just recently that with traditional print media struggling, and virtually closing down on weekends, the free racing stories provided by loveracing are happily getting printed to fill a gap. It is a good opportunity to get some stories out there. They may well be paying for them of course.
Paul Williams in Levin does a fantastic job keeping local racing and J/Os along with Foxton trials relevant in one of the local papers , The Star I think . And some personality pieces , long may he keep it up .
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34 minutes ago, chiknsmack said:
There's a couple of obvious opportunities here. The first is that the weekend news tends to be slow and so there's room for Trackside to throw together five minutes of reporting/reviews on a Saturday's racing and offer it to TVNZ to pad out the sports news on a Saturday or Sunday night. We have the footage, we have interesting stories, if we give them a package lock-stock where they don't have to do any work it'd suit them fine. Five minutes a week on the news would be a start to lifting the profile of the sport.
The other option is to have a big Lotto jackpot-style bet type (dare I say Race-O?) on a Saturday, with the last race run at 5:50pm. From 5:30 to 6:00 we can have a program on TV1 of which the first half is replays of the first legs of the Race-O/Pick 6/Triple Trio/whatever and the last 15 minutes is the live broadcast of the last leg and congratulating whoever won the million-dollar jackpot. You get hype from the jackpot-style bet type, you get racing in front of free-to-air eyes right before the news, you get racing back into the consciousness of the average Kiwi, you expand the social license, the industry doesn't die in a few years when Entain start taking half the betting revenue for themselves and we have a Green Party Minister of Racing emboldened by the banning of greyhound racing and looking for more scalps to take.
I would love to see the news option but the reality they don't really want to show horse racing on primetime news , not a good look showing horses getting whipped .
I always record the news and just stop where something interests me because there is so much click bait , the sports news now is rugby , netball , league when the Wahs are doing well , cycling , yachting and some football , usually local , hardly ever show PL football , even the big games , sometimes if they are short or it's spectacular , so racing hasn't got a show .
We simply aren't main stream anymore .
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25 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:
One problem with our stayers is that they can be very inconsistent.
The main reason is they are nice horses without being exceptional so hence they are all pretty much on a par with each other , hence come race day i's often the horse with the best run in the race that wins .
Our biggest issue is a nice young staying horse doesn't get a real chance to develop , if the you have above average ability they can win 4 races pretty quickly and they then find themselves having to race in open company , where often being younger than most and not had a lot of hard racing they can get beaten just by the toughness and durability of some of the older horses .
And god forbid they are good enough to step up quickly , they then either have to start lumping big weights or are snapped up for overseas .
This is a ratings problem .
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22 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:
Orchestral tried and failed in Oz...won a weak restricted race in NZ...sorry. form not up to it...
Willydoit...now not trained here...
The Doctor not trained here.
Kiwi Skyhawk ...he needs to find a few lengths to be competitive at the level he needs to be to even get a start.
Just my thinking but if these are the best we are in trouble.
The 2 trained in AUS now have to make the biggest step there is in racing , 3yo racing into open racing , plenty of pretenders have come and gone .
The ones that do are very good .
I certainly would love to see Willydoit do it .
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1 hour ago, We're Doomed said:
It is quite strange really. The area in which the Aussies are weakest, the area which used to be our strength, and yet NZ has now been left in the dust by the influx of European fast stayers.
It seems to be a type of horse we don't breed. We still seem to be able to produce plodding stayers suited to eventually become jumpers, but the fast staying category seems to be a niche we can't manage. Is it the stallions or the mares? Breeding experts will have a much better idea than I do.
Put on a couple of 3+mil slot races over 2400m for 4yos and then 5yos then watch a bit of a change maybe .
Personally think bred to stay has gone completely out of the window for most commercial studs , far too much money in 2/3yo racing now with the slot races as well now , don't even have to race on after that if you get , sold off to stud .
That's fine , but they have to wake up and accept it for what it is and stop chucking money at the staying races .
For me they need to put the big money into the Cox Plate , for me it's the only race that counts for anything .
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3 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:
We dont have anything here good enough...sadly.
I can't remember the last time I saw a great 3200m cup race in Australasia .
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Just now, Alf Riston said:
Nothing good enough here to make the field, let alone pick up a thick end of the stake...
A distant memory of days gone by sadly
To be fair without the English horses that do come over it would be rather dull affair altogether . Even with them I don't even have a bet in it .
IMO the Caufield Cup is a more interesting race .
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2 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:
Which horse would that be exactly?
I reckon something will come through from the synthetic racing .
- scooby3051, Al Feilding, Pam Robson and 5 others
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5 minutes ago, TurnyTom said:
The Vic and NSW battle continues
Yeah exactly , getting a bit stupid .
Next both committee's will have to stand in a line opposite each other and bring out their whangers for measuring .
- richie and We're Doomed
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Their adults and they have a child so I'm sure there is interaction between them all the time .
She usually doesn't do pre or post race interviews so it shouldn't be an issue .
The one positive for her is that she will stop getting asked the stupid question "what does OP think of this horse or it's chances".
- We're Doomed, scooby3051 and Idolmite
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Not bad for a guy who started out as a jumps jockey , good on him .
- scooby3051 and JJ Flash
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9 minutes ago, floppy said:
These awards are for people under 40yo , doesn't recognise anyone over that age who has worked tirelessly for the industry.
How many of these under 40 year old's will still be in the industry in 10 years.
Well for the health of the industry we better hope the vast majority are , and in NZ .
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24 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:
There are tons of hard workers in the industry that do not unfortunately for them have well known family connections or help in high places that are equally as deserving in my opinion...everyone who works in the industry does it because they love it and have a love of the horse...shame the same people running it did not have the same passion for it.
I haven't really looked at the awards , was there an award for a stable hand or track rider , or an office administrator . There are heaps of rolls within racing that aren't front and center but have a huge impact on keeping the wheels moving .
- scooby3051 and Pam Robson
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15 minutes ago, TurnyTom said:
Ain’t that the fact of the matter
Distanced themselves from the masses, at all levels, and Corporatised racing.
The show is all but over, very very sad
The show we know is over TT , whatever is left is not really for me , the big days are alright but the rest is a struggle .
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20 minutes ago, scootering said:
Look at afl in oz. Games at the mcg every week with up to 90 thou people. The love of the sport is where nz racing got it wrong and self interest took over
I think they simply dropped the ball , felt they didn't have to work to retain their core customer base .
All too late now .
- Pam Robson and TurnyTom
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28 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:
What a very interesting and complex subject. I suppose the key question is how much of the demise was inevitable and how much was self inflicted? There was certainly a degree of inevitability about it, but a significant part of the demise has been self inflicted.
I got involved in racing in the late 70s and my peak punting years were probably the 80s which was really the boom decade for NZ racing, so I was very lucky. I started out going to Addington as more of a social outing, but then discovered I actually preferred the gallops, so I would go along to Riccarton often by myself as no one else liked the gallops in those days. In many ways Riccarton has gained the ascendancy in Canterbury these days, certainly compared to the 70s and 80s.
Contrary to the suggestion in the original question, I think a significant percentage of racegoers and TAB punters in those days where involved because of the betting aspect and the love of the sport. I think it is this element that has really dropped away these days. The big crowds now tend to be mostly those there for the social outing and piss up. Cup Week used to be largely hard core punters from all over the country, now it is mostly those there for the piss-up.
And on that subject, the big element increasingly missing these days is atmosphere. There always used to be atmosphere and excitement, even on a wet day, because there was usually an engaged and knowledgeable crowd in attendance.
I often wonder what it must be like for jockeys and trainers, and even owners, when they look around and see only 200 or 300 people in attendance. It must be a bit discouraging. They must think why do we bother when no one is interested.
The other big thing is disposable income. Back in the 80s my standard bet would be $10EW or $20EW, with $12 on a quinella or Trifecta and $8 on a treble. My annual income has probably gone up seven fold since then, but my betting has not increased seven fold. The basic beginners bet back then was $1EW. It is probably still the standard bet for many people. If betting had moved with inflation the minimum bet should be closer to $10EW.
I think the failure of average bets to move with the times is largely down to disposable income. There was a lot of disposable income in the 80s and very little competition for it. These days with the cost of living and so much competition for the gambling dollar and disposable income generally racing has really been lost in the rush. Gambling people now have, lotto, gaming machines, online gaming, casinos etc. Sports people now have sky sport to fund, which enables them to sit at home and watch sport from all around the world, rugby and cricket games to attend, plus numerous other sports. People in general have to fund their mobile phones, overseas trips, restaurant visits, designer clothes etc.
People are also time poor. Social media chews up a lot of time for many people. Even this ramble has just chewed up an hour of my morning.
The short careers of the modern day horses where many of the better ones are retired to stud after one or two seasons of racing also doesn't help the general public to identify with certain horses. There won't be another Grey Way with 51 wins.
And the demise of racing has coincided with the demise of the traditional media. Racing coverage in the media had already virtually disappeared now it is nonexistent. That doesn't help to attract public engagement and it has a flow on effect with attracting sponsorship.
And I haven't even got on to the bit about where it all went wrong with the management of racing, and whether the industry should have been doing much better than it is. I think this is more than enough for today.
Great post WD , so many salient points .
Most of us oldies accept that we just have to enjoy the demise as gracefully as we can .
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4 minutes ago, tripple alliance said:
Well you are supposedly an expert on everything racing , endless criticism of any type of management so naturally I expected to see you have real some experience in management but it seems you are all blow anyway Scooby has asked us to talk poly so that's it for me Ah a final challenge show me a post where you aren't whinging about something , if you can I'll place a little
on it .
Aahh , your getting boring , you stated your bigtime success and asked me how many winners I had trained which was supposed to prove my right to say my piece , but now it's management experience I have to have to be able to say what I think is wrong .
Why do I have to have management experience , the ones get paid the big bucks and no hands on racing experience have the management experience , How's that going ??
I understand racing , along with plenty of others , and many with far greater knowledge than I have , but they have never been asked about the direction racing is taking , you know , the ones at the coalface , the same ones you said could just sell up and move to another track if theirs was getting closed down , you didn't understand all the implications around the decisions that were getting made then , just like now .
I don't need a challenge nor your smile to empower my opinions .
Now I'll set you a challenge , rather than just winge at people because they don't think things are being done right and that they should just get with the program , tells us some of your ideas for getting things going , something original that could make a serious change for good . If you can I'll place a little , or a big ,
on it .
Holding my breath .
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2 minutes ago, Alf Riston said:
Great movie .
- Baz (NZ) and Alf Riston
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Te Rapa R6 Ridgeview Vicky
Good luck to everybody .
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Just now, tripple alliance said:
Ah but zero experience in management and it shows .
You asked about my winners , now it's management . read my post about the ones that are managing and what they know about racing or training winners . Now your just obfuscating .
You are a fool !
Take that to Scooby .
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1 minute ago, Alf Riston said:
Time to call Dennis
To be fair he sounds more like the guys running the show .
- Alf Riston and Baz (NZ)
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The Decline of Horse racing as a Cultural Institution
in Thoroughbred Cafe
Posted
Whilst I agree that the loss of TVNZ coverage may have some impact I'm not convinced that it was a major , myself and most other punters I knew were ingrained to the majority of our racing coverage caming from the radio . Up until Action TV we were regularly ensconced around a table at a pub listening to the races , keep in mind this was the days of just the local CD racing with double legs from other meetings . We initially spent our Saturdays at the bottom tavern in Porirua then moved into the Blue Heron and eventually made our way to the Porirua Club , initially just in the main bar but when the club realized the numbers were getting bigger they decided to build a dedicated TAB room , and I can tell you that place was jam packed and rocking on a Saturday afternoon and some great punting days were held there , great atmosphere spent with many good friends .
I have always put the biggest blame on the decline of betting squarely on the shoulders of the TAB themselves , they continually made things harder for punters with continual changes to the way people could bet , especially phone betting , went from calling in to place your bets with an operator to having to spend certain amounts , then to touch tone which whilst I found it easy many older punters struggled as they did with putting up minimum spends , then eventually putting the emphasis online betting and mobile phone betting , again the oldies were left adrift , didn't own these or how to use them , they just stopped .
These things along with the slow strangulation of the local TABs being closed , huge numbers of older and lower socioeconomic punters just gave up and as you say just went to lotto , but I do accept that Lotto did have a huge effect , myself and many others just done both . But my strong belief is that many hard core punters were driven out of betting on horse racing . All over a period of 20+ years .
At the same time as this was happening the big push to garner corporate and the push for the "young" in hip partying crowd began . These changes IMO were being driven by corporate managers who IMO had very little understanding of what racings core client was .
I have no doubt there has been many management meetings over the years where they have asked themselves how they misjudged it so badly . But the reality is it's all too late IMO , the grungy poorly educated but regular punters that were the cornerstone have all but gone , and not coming back .
Even now with the new guys , they are pissing many off , if you knew me when I was punting really substantial amounts to what I am now , you would get a surprise . And I am an ingrained racing man , if I'm at home and reading or doing house hold chores it's the racing channel on , I watch lots of races but simply have no inclination to bet . For myself Entain has slowly strangled my bonus's and number of meetings and race numbers . Now if I need to put some money in for a bet it's $20/30 , if I'm on a little run then sure I will spend more .
They have steered the boat up the wrong river . You just have to look at the crap races they press between the good races on a Saturday , most punters don't want them , but they think everybody has a gambling problem and bet on anything , wrong . They had a huge audience that loved nothing more than spending a few dollars on race day but they didn't think those small amounts were enough but their own figures would have told them that they all added up to substantial amounts . But that's all gone and never coming back .
Sorry this got longer than I intended but I am passionate about our industry and it breaks my heart to see where we have ended up .