Leggy

Big ups to the JCA ...RIU v Rae/Williams case

15 posts in this topic

http://www.jca.org.nz/non-race-day-hearings/non-raceday-inquiry-riu-v-k-l-rae-and-k-williams-reserved-decision-dated-26-november-2018-chair-prof-g-hall

Gosh .... some sense was seen, but the case raises a number of other issues.

What is the responsibility of clubs to provide uncontaminated and secure facilities?

Should trainers "hiring" them have something in their agreements saying that's what they expect?

Outside of private facilities, who is responsible for security and providing security measures?

What's the deal on the ludicrously low threshold for Meth in the rules?

Should that be re-examined?

I could go on, but what are people's thoughts? These poor folk have been through the wringer for what appears to be no good reason. Something needs to change.

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Yes, fully agree.

The absence of any security whatsoever has long been a concern to users of the 'visitors stables'  at Riccarton.

I note a reference to Terri Rae and her security cameras - these are in her own confined area and therefore, an appropriate practice.

Long term lessees do have the right to install security In their defined areas  if desired, but the visitor's area is quite correctly considered to be the responsibility of the CJC. 

The old rule which didn't allow trainers to share premises seems to have gone by the board now there are so many leased facilities provided by clubs. 

Many years ago ( VERY many years..! )  a trainer had to have their own property before being granted a licence....obviously impractical theses days.

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Why can't the owners of Ken's horse sue CJC?  A good barrister would have a field day would he/she not?........in their terms of lease to Ken did they state security was Ken's responsibly? if they did Ken is at fault, but nowhere in the JCA report did I read that......go for it Ken, however as for the piffle re horses eating contaminated bedding, what a load of cobblers, those of you that work with horses know full well they wont go near bedding with a urine smell.......I'm referring to other incidents here, mentioned in this report......shavings, straw etc, mine wont lay down in dirty bedding let alone eat it........and then there is the raceday stalls, and contaminated troughs.......what next?........Hans Christian Anderson.

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There’s plenty of evidence to the contrary actually La Zip.

Clearly I’m not going to breach privacy here by naming names but recently a gypsy horse ( trained by Mr A ) tested positive to Tramadol, Citalopram, Metropolol and Temazepam.

If you don’t know each drug best you google it, but suffice to say I immediately said the contamination must have come from a licensed trainer. You’ll work out why I arrived at that conclusion.

Based on credible overseas evidence the RIU investigated this case, and found another trainer ( B )  had regularly been using the box this animal was stabled in to relieve himself, and when questioned/tested the second trainer was being prescribed Citalopram, Tramadol, Temazapam and Metoprolol.

Furthermore, as it applies in the Rae case, with methamphetamine and amphetamine you have a drug that’s fat soluble, water soluble, and a known passive or environmental contaminant.

The evidence is compelling.

Professor Hall and Ms Moffatt are very learned and capable people, no one pulls the wool over their eyes.

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6 hours ago, poundforpound said:

There’s plenty of evidence to the contrary actually La Zip.

Clearly I’m not going to breach privacy here by naming names but recently a gypsy horse ( trained by Mr A ) tested positive to Tramadol, Citalopram, Metropolol and Temazepam.

If you don’t know each drug best you google it, but suffice to say I immediately said the contamination must have come from a licensed trainer. You’ll work out why I arrived at that conclusion.

Based on credible overseas evidence the RIU investigated this case, and found another trainer ( B )  had regularly been using the box this animal was stabled in to relieve himself, and when questioned/tested the second trainer was being prescribed Citalopram, Tramadol, Temazapam and Metoprolol.

Furthermore, as it applies in the Rae case, with methamphetamine and amphetamine you have a drug that’s fat soluble, water soluble, and a known passive or environmental contaminant.

The evidence is compelling.

Professor Hall and Ms Moffatt are very learned and capable people, no one pulls the wool over their eyes.

Dean Ivory from UK worth a Google.  Two failed tests 2016 , one horse  Watadoll 9th place finish Wolverhampton disqualified ,stable lad was on Tramadol after back surgery had habit of urinating in stable , sounds like he got his p45  and Links Lady with  different stable hand and jockey on hay fever meds contaminated her , bit different no real malpractice on jocks or strappers part for hay fever sufferers.  Dean Ivory fined 1500 and reports state he compensated owner. I would suggest trainers might want to invest in adequate dunnys.

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7 hours ago, poundforpound said:

There’s plenty of evidence to the contrary actually La Zip.

Clearly I’m not going to breach privacy here by naming names but recently a gypsy horse ( trained by Mr A ) tested positive to Tramadol, Citalopram, Metropolol and Temazepam.

If you don’t know each drug best you google it, but suffice to say I immediately said the contamination must have come from a licensed trainer. You’ll work out why I arrived at that conclusion.

Based on credible overseas evidence the RIU investigated this case, and found another trainer ( B )  had regularly been using the box this animal was stabled in to relieve himself, and when questioned/tested the second trainer was being prescribed Citalopram, Tramadol, Temazapam and Metoprolol.

Furthermore, as it applies in the Rae case, with methamphetamine and amphetamine you have a drug that’s fat soluble, water soluble, and a known passive or environmental contaminant.

The evidence is compelling.

Professor Hall and Ms Moffatt are very learned and capable people, no one pulls the wool over their eyes.

I'd be very interested to learn if the findings suggested/implied the horses digested said Pharma drugs or absorbed through skin via bedding, can you assist?

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1 hour ago, La Zip said:

I'd be very interested to learn if the findings suggested/implied the horses digested said Pharma drugs or absorbed through skin via bedding, can you assist?

I’m not here to teach vet science, pharmocolgy or toxicology sorry, but the science is rock solid and has been heavily scrutinised.

Clearly you think you know more than the experts anyway so why do you need any further assistance ?

 

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6 hours ago, La Zip said:

Clearly you're mistaken Dr Molloy, if I knew more than the experts I wouldn't;t have asked the question. It is you as a learned vet that puts the science out there, mine was a genuine question.

Actually it was NZTR, in conjunction with the RIU, using evidence from overseas jurisdictions that “put the evidence out there”.

Did you not get the official communique from Marty Burns ?

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However the 'evidence' does not clarify how the 'drugs' or their metabolites entered the horses system, I've run this past many here in Oz, and everyone, most with more than 40/50 years experience with thoroughbreds have never witnessed horses eating contaminated straw/shavings/sawdust.......they also concur, none of their horses will lay on contaminated bedding, nor mine, however there are drugs of course with no odour, hence my question, the answer may well be a pineapple.

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38 minutes ago, La Zip said:

However the 'evidence' does not clarify how the 'drugs' or their metabolites entered the horses system, I've run this past many here in Oz, and everyone, most with more than 40/50 years experience with thoroughbreds have never witnessed horses eating contaminated straw/shavings/sawdust.......they also concur, none of their horses will lay on contaminated bedding, nor mine, however there are drugs of course with no odour, hence my question, the answer may well be a pineapple.

And I’ve never had a horse that didn’t like salt, now guess what urine is often full of ?

End of discussion anyway, we produced the evidence supported by the RIU expert vet, NZTR and HRNZs expert vet, scientific evidence from abroad, NZ case history, expert toxicologists evidence from ESR ( NZ govt ) plus an Australian drug detection agency and the NZ Drug Detection Agency ......and all our stars aligned, but you know better so I’ll leave it there.

If it’s of any comfort to you, you’re not alone, the uneducated low achievers and nillers over at the oxidation pond ( except the academic Curios ) agree with you....that’s worth thinking about 

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Your stars aligned? God help us all,  none of you will answer a simple question, how did these 'drugs' get into the horses system? Did they eat their bedding, or lay on their bedding? did they rub their hides against contaminated posts?  all you simply have to say is 'I don't know'....or I do know.......and come forth.......what I will disclose, as unlike you, my background is in law, being a legal secretary formerly working with a high profile lawyer very involved in an industry matter!......#seekingthetruth

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So you’re a law clerk, you’re not a lawyer ( that’s pretty fucking obvious )

Meth is fat soluble and water soluble, you work it out now seeing you seem to know everything  

Here’s a clue though, there was no surveillance so you can use a “balance of probabilities” argument 

Over and out, you’re too tedious for me 

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