JayTee2016

Yonkers Harness

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Anyone bet on these races? I have a wee nibble. Hard to get to excited about 11 year old horses that haven't won sod all in their last six starts. Having said that you have to wonder what is going on at our TAB with the broadcasting of American races. Last year we had American gallops on three or four times a week usually covering at least ten races each time. Lets say around 40 races a week. Now they have stopped showing them altogether. Were they that big a flop or has there been another conflict behind the scenes?

A couple of years ago Jess Davison? of Trackside fronted the American harness broadcasts here. They were on in the mornings on the weekends. I really enjoyed them. They covered meetings from all the big tracks with the best drivers. Then they just disappeared. Then we were offered the 10 race card from Yonkers every Tuesday. Who could blame some NZ punters for believing low stakes Yonkers is the only harness venue used by the Americans and all their horses are almost old enough to vote. Is this the best American product Petone can come up with? Then they cut the ten race card down to six and then recently three. Today one of those three is a no TV race. Honestly,why bother? There are 12 races at Yonkers New York today and 12 at Northfield Park Ohio.

I've recently started betting on these harness races with an off shore betting agency. All our TAB does is wet your appetite for American harness and then chop you off at the knees. If they want to understand why punters are going elsewhere just look at the way they have bungled the broadcasting and betting of American racing. Interesting to note that tab.com in oz has betting on all of the 24 harness races quoted. How can they offer that "service" yet our tab can't? 

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3 hours ago, JayTee2016 said:

Anyone bet on these races? I have a wee nibble. Hard to get to excited about 11 year old horses that haven't won sod all in their last six starts. Having said that you have to wonder what is going on at our TAB with the broadcasting of American races. Last year we had American gallops on three or four times a week usually covering at least ten races each time. Lets say around 40 races a week. Now they have stopped showing them altogether. Were they that big a flop or has there been another conflict behind the scenes?

A couple of years ago Jess Davison? of Trackside fronted the American harness broadcasts here. They were on in the mornings on the weekends. I really enjoyed them. They covered meetings from all the big tracks with the best drivers. Then they just disappeared. Then we were offered the 10 race card from Yonkers every Tuesday. Who could blame some NZ punters for believing low stakes Yonkers is the only harness venue used by the Americans and all their horses are almost old enough to vote. Is this the best American product Petone can come up with? Then they cut the ten race card down to six and then recently three. Today one of those three is a no TV race. Honestly,why bother? There are 12 races at Yonkers New York today and 12 at Northfield Park Ohio.

I've recently started betting on these harness races with an off shore betting agency. All our TAB does is wet your appetite for American harness and then chop you off at the knees. If they want to understand why punters are going elsewhere just look at the way they have bungled the broadcasting and betting of American racing. Interesting to note that tab.com in oz has betting on all of the 24 harness races quoted. How can they offer that "service" yet our tab can't? 

Your first sentence says it all. If you saw the small amounts being bet into these races you could understand why they have been dropped.

Interesting to note that you want these races brought to you by Trackside yet you bet with offshore agencies. 

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44 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

Your first sentence says it all. If you saw the small amounts being bet into these races you could understand why they have been dropped.

Interesting to note that you want these races brought to you by Trackside yet you bet with offshore agencies. 

I understand the small amounts being wagered but what comes first? The chicken or the egg. If the races are that pointless,then why have them at all? 

I've watched a fair bit of exciting American harness racing over the years. Not much of that involved veterans going around for peanuts at Yonkers. If you're going to deliver a crap product the chances are punters won't bet. Why don't they offer good quality American harness instead? There is plenty available at Saratoga,The Meadowlands,Balmoral Park etc, 

It would also be helpful if the NZ presenters actually had a better understanding of the betting odds. They seem to know that 1-9 equals a very hot favourite but quickly drown after that.They are relatively new to the game and are only familiar with parimutuel betting.  Their limited knowledge of the horses racing is also not helpful.

Not sure why you'd say "interesting to note" etc as if it's a conspiracy or I'm being less than honest . Fact is I'd rather bet on the NZ TAB  mostly because it's much easier and faster to withdraw funds. I'm not a big punter in terms of bet amounts so the poor fixed odds offerings of the NZ TAB don't come into play for me. The NZ TAB does not offer fixed odds betting on the American racing anyway.

As a harness racing fan I also have a preference for wanting to see more harness racing on TV. We are not competing with the greyhounds very well in my opinion. They are increasing. We are decreasing. 

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i catch the live racing online at the Meadowlands on Sunday afternoons, (12.35pm to 4.30pm) you will generally catch a couple of ex-kiwi bred horses racing. I don't bet on them but watch them for the joy of it (do pick a horse to follow each race). When they had betting ,(albeit around five to six races  from the meeting)  I would have a punt. 

Other than that you may have caught my posts about ex-kiwi horses racing well or the Tattersills Sales where they sell stallion shares along with a mixed sale.

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On 8 March 2016 at 2:24 PM, JayTee2016 said:

I understand the small amounts being wagered but what comes first? The chicken or the egg. If the races are that pointless,then why have them at all? 

I've watched a fair bit of exciting American harness racing over the years. Not much of that involved veterans going around for peanuts at Yonkers. If you're going to deliver a crap product the chances are punters won't bet. Why don't they offer good quality American harness instead? There is plenty available at Saratoga,The Meadowlands,Balmoral Park etc, 

It would also be helpful if the NZ presenters actually had a better understanding of the betting odds. They seem to know that 1-9 equals a very hot favourite but quickly drown after that.They are relatively new to the game and are only familiar with parimutuel betting.  Their limited knowledge of the horses racing is also not helpful.

Not sure why you'd say "interesting to note" etc as if it's a conspiracy or I'm being less than honest . Fact is I'd rather bet on the NZ TAB  mostly because it's much easier and faster to withdraw funds. I'm not a big punter in terms of bet amounts so the poor fixed odds offerings of the NZ TAB don't come into play for me. The NZ TAB does not offer fixed odds betting on the American racing anyway.

As a harness racing fan I also have a preference for wanting to see more harness racing on TV. We are not competing with the greyhounds very well in my opinion. They are increasing. We are decreasing. 

You clearly don't know much about US racing.

Yonkers has the highest stake money of any track, plenty of nice top horses go around there including a heap from down under. Balmoral is just bad horses racing for no money.

The Meadowlands only race Friday and Saturday nights, that's Saturday and Sunday afternoons here where there isn't much room in the trackside schedule. Also the prizemoney is pretty average there now and a lot of the top drivers race at Yonkers or in Pennsylvania instead.

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13 hours ago, James Blunt said:

You clearly don't know much about US racing.

Yonkers has the highest stake money of any track, plenty of nice top horses go around there including a heap from down under. Balmoral is just bad horses racing for no money.

The Meadowlands only race Friday and Saturday nights, that's Saturday and Sunday afternoons here where there isn't much room in the trackside schedule. Also the prizemoney is pretty average there now and a lot of the top drivers race at Yonkers or in Pennsylvania instead.

Must be different than the Yonkers races I've seen our TAB accepting betting on. Many are for a stake around 12k for battling horses. The fields are made up mostly of 8,9 and 10 year old runners so are classified as veterans. I've seen one old ex Queenslander who couldn't keep up at Redcliffe start favourite at least twice in Yonkers races we've had betting on. If that constitutes nice top horses racing for the highest stake money then god help us.  

I'd like to see some decent US harness racing shown on the weekends. It would have to be in the same time frame US gallops were shown here. Not sure there would be enough interest from punters to justify it. I'd also like to see harness racing from Sweden and France etc. It's a global sport but we don't see much evidence of that here.  

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42 minutes ago, cantab matt said:

didn't know they had harness in Sweden and France?

France: 

Blake Fitzpatrick to drive at Vincennes, France

23 January 2014
by David Sanders
Logo
 
Blake Fitzpatrick talks to French training legend Thierry Duvaldestin while dual Prix d'Amerique champ Ready Cash looks on.

Blake Fitzpatrick talks to French training legend Thierry Duvaldestin while dual Prix d'Amerique champ Ready Cash looks on.

Top Aussie reinsman Blake Fitzpatrick has secured a dream drive today at Vincennes during Prix d’Amerique week.

 “It will be a once in a lifetime, something you will never forget,” says the New South Wales horseman Fitzpatrick who is in France with Victorian trainer Ross Graham and trotting owner and stable client Pat Driscoll.

The trio are on a whistle stop fact finding tour of France taking in some of the top training and breeding estabishments and a week of some of the word’s best trotting action which culminates in the Prix d’Amerique on Sunday.

Fitzpatrick will be aboard Visconti du Home who is trained  by France based Swede Anders Lindqvist in the Prix de Mons, a race for 5YOs for 22000 euros over 2850m and race 5 on the Thursday programme at the Hippodrome de Paris.

Fitzpatrick has been blown away by the popularity of the sport in France.

“It is amazing how much publicity the sport receives. The trainers and drivers are like rock stars and the horses. Completely different to what we are used to.”

Although Fitzpatrick is a group one winning trainer and driver in Australia, he admitted the thought of driving in the Temple du Trot was a daunting one.

“It’s a different style of racing and driving, especially the starts. They are completely different to what we are used to. It’s going to be difficult that is for sure,’ Fitzpatrick said.

“So I’m quite anxious but It’ll be a great experience, just to say I’ve driven at VIncennes It has a lot of history and a very famous track. I can’t wait.”

Fitzpatrick has visited some of the very best training and breeding establishments in Normandy over the past few days and has been observing first hand how superstar trotters such as Ready Cash, The Best Madrik and Un Mec d’Heripre are put through their paces.

 “I’ve been very lucky  we have met racing royalty over here,” says Fitzpatrick. “On the first day we spoke with Thierry Duvalsdestin and then Mr Jean-Etienne Dubois today and we saw Fabrice Solouy work his horses yesterday. We really learnt a lot, they have been very welcoming.

“There are probably no one better to get advice from and that gives me a head start.”

And the New South Wales horseman was also impressed by Vincennes when he visited it last Saturday to view the Prix de Cornulier.

“The track has a lot of history around it and is quite unique. Firstly the facilities are first rate. As far as the track goes it is quite unique in that it is undulating, beautiful 2000m track with the starting shuts and the smaller track on the inside, the surface is the most appealing part of the track for me - it is the perfect track for horses.

“It will be a once in a lifetime, something you will never forget.”

He has also been absorbing some very valuable insights from some of the very best trotting and breeding establishments such as the Haras de Sassy, Haras de Ginai, Haras de la Perriere and Haras de la Sauvageres.

One of the things which really stuck in his mind besides the professionalism of each outfit was the attention to the  horse’s health and wellbeing and most importantly the mind and attitude of the horse.

“Every trainer we have spoken to has made mention of the horse’s state of mind,” says Fitzpatrick.

“It is shown by the variety of training they have that it is obviously a big thing. I’d say the majority of the horses are trained from the paddocks here. Everything is kept very natural for them.

“Their training methods, the horse’s mind is kept fresh because every day they are doing something different.”

And he has been struck by the calm nature of the racehorses, many of whom are left entire, with so few top opportunities for geldings in France.

“Their temperament is just amazing really. I have never seen anything like it.

“The stallions are like a quiet old gelding, they are very well mannered and I think it has something with  the way they are kept. They are just kept out in paddocks and very natural- they don’t have them locked up 24/7 they are treated like horses.”

And the other thing he has been impressed with is the emphasis on interval training and he has lapped up the candid exchange of ideas and pointers from the likes of J-E Dubois and Thierry Duvaldestin.

“ I will be experimenting with that when I get home. I find the shoeing of the trotters here very interesting as well. A lot race barefoot, and the different types of shoes they wear, it’s completely different to what I am used. They are natural trotters.”

 

Sweden:

 

"Horse-racing every Wednesday”
5 of 5 stars

Solvalla is Sweden’s biggest harness-racing track, with about 80 race-days per year. Wednesdays are a bit quieter, still good quality racing though. Saturday races are bigger, and more fun, especially in summer


 

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14 minutes ago, cantab matt said:

BWD... sorry misread your post, you mentioned harness which I thought you were referring to. I am aware of Europe's long history of trotting

Thought that may have been the case Matt. Felt sure you would know about the great harness racing in France especially where it's huge. Would be impressive to see harness drivers and horses etc being viewed the way we view our All Blacks.

A couple of years back they had trots from France on Trackside in the early hours. Huge fields. Beautiful racecourse. I stayed up and enjoyed the 2 and 3 am races but the pools were generally disappointing which I assume is why they stopped taking the races. Perhaps we need a couple of good Kiwi horses and drivers competing there to stimulate interest plus the promoting on Trackside of such races like they do with the early morning Sha Tin gallops.

Punters from NZ will bet on near pointless $2000 Globe Derby races but not 100k trots from Vincennes. I'm sure that relates to the time they race. Bummer really as we miss out on broadening our trotting horizons in what is a global sport. 

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1 hour ago, beerwithduncan said:

Thought that may have been the case Matt. Felt sure you would know about the great harness racing in France especially where it's huge. Would be impressive to see harness drivers and horses etc being viewed the way we view our All Blacks.

A couple of years back they had trots from France on Trackside in the early hours. Huge fields. Beautiful racecourse. I stayed up and enjoyed the 2 and 3 am races but the pools were generally disappointing which I assume is why they stopped taking the races. Perhaps we need a couple of good Kiwi horses and drivers competing there to stimulate interest plus the promoting on Trackside of such races like they do with the early morning Sha Tin gallops.

Punters from NZ will bet on near pointless $2000 Globe Derby races but not 100k trots from Vincennes. I'm sure that relates to the time they race. Bummer really as we miss out on broadening our trotting horizons in what is a global sport. 

I remember watching them to, you guys would probably know a lot more about it than me but don't they disqualify horses during the race?

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1 hour ago, tonkatime said:

I remember watching them to, you guys would probably know a lot more about it than me but don't they disqualify horses during the race?

You are correct tonkatime. You break the rules during a race and a decisive decision maker pulls the pin on you immediately. I cant remember if the driver is notified and pulls up but the TV viewers know that runner is no longer in contention as it shows up on screen. I'd wager they are also quick and decisive in the room. No 45 minute protests. 

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They show alot of international trotting in Aus on the racing channels mainly in the mornings, 3 or 4 tracks from each country, US, France Sweden and sometimes Canada. Most of the card is shown sometimes 10 races from each venue. Fixed odds betting is available on some of the venues about 5 minutes before the start. If your quick you can actually get inflated prices because the money on the tote comes on very late and tote prices drop dramatically due to not much money in the pool. Of course its no good unless you back the winner!.

Races from Sweden are interesting as they often race in the snow, even the track is white. How they maintain grip amazes me. I can only remember one race in NZ in the snow and that was at Methven must be 40 years ago. I think a horse called Angelo Dundee won a race on that program . Also the starts in France are interesting with the horses doing circles off the track and then moving out onto the track and then getting a rolling start.  I think Globe Derby tried a similar start a few years ago but canned it as every second start was a false start. Not so in France. Also you dont seem to see any use of whips or very minimal at least, they run on their natural ability.  Interesting article from BeerWD which explains somewhat how they run so well and are well behaved. 

Shame they are not shown in NZ because it is very enjoyable to watch if not a good betting proposition. That probably explains why they are not show in NZ as of course Aus has a much bigger betting pool of punters who will have a go at anything!

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2 hours ago, harewood said:

They show alot of international trotting in Aus on the racing channels mainly in the mornings, 3 or 4 tracks from each country, US, France Sweden and sometimes Canada. Most of the card is shown sometimes 10 races from each venue. Fixed odds betting is available on some of the venues about 5 minutes before the start. If your quick you can actually get inflated prices because the money on the tote comes on very late and tote prices drop dramatically due to not much money in the pool. Of course its no good unless you back the winner!.

Races from Sweden are interesting as they often race in the snow, even the track is white. How they maintain grip amazes me. I can only remember one race in NZ in the snow and that was at Methven must be 40 years ago. I think a horse called Angelo Dundee won a race on that program . Also the starts in France are interesting with the horses doing circles off the track and then moving out onto the track and then getting a rolling start.  I think Globe Derby tried a similar start a few years ago but canned it as every second start was a false start. Not so in France. Also you dont seem to see any use of whips or very minimal at least, they run on their natural ability.  Interesting article from BeerWD which explains somewhat how they run so well and are well behaved. 

Shame they are not shown in NZ because it is very enjoyable to watch if not a good betting proposition. That probably explains why they are not show in NZ as of course Aus has a much bigger betting pool of punters who will have a go at anything!

I've seen several of the Swedish races in the snow you refer to harewood. They certainly make things interesting. You'd think if the Australian's can cover those meetings then we should be able to also. I'm sure we'd all enjoy and learn from it. They take their trotting very seriously.

I recall having a small wager on the fav Buriton Bailey in the last race at Methven in October 2010. It snowed during the race and made for rare Trackside viewing. 

http://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gas/wa/r/infohorsewahr/wsd01x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=143789

 

I'm almost embarrassed to admit I recall the Brian Saunders of Inky Lord fame trained Angelo Dundee. Was still winning races in the early 80's.  From fading memory I think Graham Court of Terror To Love fame drove Angelo Dundee to at least some of it's numerous victories. 

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22 hours ago, beerwithduncan said:

I recall having a small wager on the fav Buriton Bailey in the last race at Methven in October 2010. It snowed during the race and made for rare Trackside viewing. 

Now a rising 9yo, Buriton Bailey ran 3rd in a field of 8 at Globe Derby tonight.

 

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