Berri 2,131 Report post Posted March 4, 2013 Olly Tait has resigned from the Breeders Cup Board. The Americans don't want to make the Breeders Cup drug free this year. What a joke. The Breeders Cup should be boycotted by all the international racing nations. Then they might change their antiquated monopolies if no international runners turned up. Maybe Armstrong was acting as their consultant. What a joke in this day and age of sport and horse racing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd Vivian 742 Report post Posted March 4, 2013 Couldn't agree more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBHunter 100 Report post Posted March 11, 2013 Interesting. The American drug issue was discussed recently in another forum. The point was made in defense of American racing that cheating cannot be a serious issue there because their classic race times haven't improved in 40 years. If a triathlete take pot believing its a PED, Is he a cheat or just a pot head? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawke 32 Report post Posted March 11, 2013 Lasix - how many thoroughbred race horse bleed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBHunter 100 Report post Posted March 11, 2013 Lasix - how many thoroughbred race horse bleed? Is Lasix a cheating issue or an animal welfare issue?? It does shed weight though I believe, but bleeding is a problem also Lasix may be a gray one but at least its out in the open. The bleeding may be from lack of proper conditioning.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted March 11, 2013 Lasix is a bleeding drug but more importantly it is a masking agent. It masks bute, anti inflamatories andothers. The problem that the Americans have is that if they ban the drug, many of their horses will have to run on their merits with the normal with holding periods. If the Europeans arrive on mass (as they were going to because they were told the racing would be drug free) it is likely that the Europeans would have out performed their breed. This may have had the effect of devaluing their racing and breeding industry. One of the worst kept secrets is that when Secretariat won the Belmont by 30 odd lengths, allegedly his system was full of elephant juice. It just wasn't on the radar screen at that time. So is this bad.....seriously....cheating Americans. With all sport trying to clean up their acts...the Armstrong saga....why do those idiots think that the general public isn't going to see this a s corrupt. It's nuts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBHunter 100 Report post Posted March 11, 2013 Lasix is a bleeding drug but more importantly it is a masking agent. It masks bute, anti inflamatories andothers. The problem that the Americans have is that if they ban the drug, many of their horses will have to run on their merits with the normal with holding periods. If the Europeans arrive on mass (as they were going to because they were told the racing would be drug free) it is likely that the Europeans would have out performed their breed. This may have had the effect of devaluing their racing and breeding industry. One of the worst kept secrets is that when Secretariat won the Belmont by 30 odd lengths, allegedly his system was full of elephant juice. It just wasn't on the radar screen at that time. So is this bad.....seriously....cheating Americans. With all sport trying to clean up their acts...the Armstrong saga....why do those idiots think that the general public isn't going to see this a s corrupt. It's nuts All the more reason to race them, again and again and again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted March 11, 2013 Berri... Please reference your claim in regard to Secretariat. I believe that you have libeled one of the greatest horses in history. I look forward to checking out any information that you can provide. Thank you. Ashoka Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBHunter 100 Report post Posted March 11, 2013 Berri... Please reference your claim in regard to Secretariat. I believe that you have libeled one of the greatest horses in history. I look forward to checking out any information that you can provide. Thank you. Ashoka I don't even know what elephant juice is but I've read a lot about Secretariat and believe that there is enough written from information gathered from his closest connections to build a picture of an injured and unwell horse. His winning of the Triple Crown and subsequent syndication was knife edge stuff played out by people bred to run life's race and win. One book describes him as "The horse that God built". I find this title offensive, He was just a wonderful horse running on ordinary legs that held out only by the varnish on his hooves long enough to pay those taxes. He died from laminitis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchakov 108 Report post Posted March 11, 2013 oh yes cheating americans . what about cheating NZers and the trainer who got caught injecting his horse in the latrine a few hours before a group race in NZ . This ultra consistant Group 1 winning mare never regained anywhere near its previous form and the substance that it was being injected with was withdrawn from sale. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted March 11, 2013 TBHunter... I suggest you check out your facts before you make comments in the future. Secretariat had a heart that was well over twice the size of the average heart of a horse. His Kentucky Derby race record still stands, forty years after he set it. He died at the age of nineteen...his hooves holding out for a lot longer than you have insinuated. Regards. Ashoka Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idolmite 2,569 Report post Posted March 11, 2013 TBHunter... I suggest you check out your facts before you make comments in the future. Regards. Ashoka Jeez, take a chill pill. What did he say that was so wrong? So non-factual? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins 2,120 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 I'm with Ashoka on this. Bagging Secretariat is a pretty big call given the horse's achievements and history. Can you point to some facts to support these assumptions. Take a chill pill Idolmite ?? How about a truth pill ? It's a sad refection of the modern world when someone objects to scurrilous accusations provided without proof and is met with being told to take a chill-pill ? What bothers you more, Idolmite ? TBHunter's unsupported assumptions or Ashoka's indignation ? Which is more genuine, more truthful ? To TB Hunter, did you personally inspect Secretariat in his living years to confirm the assumption about his hooves ? Turny 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mad scientist 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 Now now, boys! Don't get stuck into TB Hunter.....he is absolutely right in that laminitis took Secretariat from us at 19yo. Now the speculation on what caused the laminitis (I've heard Cushing's bandied around) is interesting. He is also possibly right in that Secretariat was 'just a wonderful horse running on ordinary legs'......there are lots of those around You'll find that Berri was the one that alluded to Secretariat being on the 'elephant juice'. Deep breaths Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,820 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 Its fairly widely known big brown (2008 kentucky derby and belmont stakes winner)was on the same drug (winstrol) ben johnson used winning the 100 at the seoul olympics which is one of four legal drugs at the time,curlin who broke cigars money winning record around this time has been accepted as being on the roids early in career.Secretariats autopsy revealed the horses heart was 2 1/2 times the size of an average horse and it has been said the horse had been 'overfed' which contributed to his early demise.There was a rumour regarding secretariats supposed drug circulated by cigars groom but there is no evidence to back up this claim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idolmite 2,569 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 Now now, boys! Don't get stuck into TB Hunter.....he is absolutely right in that laminitis took Secretariat from us at 19yo. Now the speculation on what caused the laminitis (I've heard Cushing's bandied around) is interesting. He is also possibly right in that Secretariat was 'just a wonderful horse running on ordinary legs'......there are lots of those around You'll find that Berri was the one that alluded to Secretariat being on the 'elephant juice'. Deep breaths Hence the question I asked. What exactly was Ashoka's beef? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,820 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 Lasix was tested on racehorses in south africa in 2007.On average horses were 5.7 kg lighter after racing compared to a 13.6 kg loss with animals using lasix on raceday Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBHunter 100 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 I'm with Ashoka on this. Bagging Secretariat is a pretty big call given the horse's achievements and history. Can you point to some facts to support these assumptions. Take a chill pill Idolmite ?? How about a truth pill ? It's a sad refection of the modern world when someone objects to scurrilous accusations provided without proof and is met with being told to take a chill-pill ? What bothers you more, Idolmite ? TBHunter's unsupported assumptions or Ashoka's indignation ? Which is more genuine, more truthful ? To TB Hunter, did you personally inspect Secretariat in his living years to confirm the assumption about his hooves ? Like Opie Bosson and his Stayer comment we all view things from different points of view or perspective based on our individual experiences and beliefs. I see Secretariat from the view point of someone who has spent countless hours agonizing over horses legs and feet, their gaits and defects, So to me this wonderful horse at the end of the day is just a horse, A big immature horse galloping on pins not nearly fully developed. He raced at 2 because his connections needed him to not because he was ready to. Large horses don't suddenly mature at 2YO.. There is no doubt in my mind that he paid a price for this early work. Its important to be objective and avoid being caught up in the emotion of the subject. This topic is about cheating and the same applies. Cheats cannot win, They lose whatever the result. When Dennis Conner came out with a tri hull did we boycott the Americas Cup?? and if we had of, who would have been the losers in the long run.? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBHunter 100 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 TBHunter... I suggest you check out your facts before you make comments in the future. Secretariat had a heart that was well over twice the size of the average heart of a horse. His Kentucky Derby race record still stands, forty years after he set it. He died at the age of nineteen...his hooves holding out for a lot longer than you have insinuated. Regards. Ashoka Hmmm, Not much longer I'm sorry to say. You see Ashoka its not unreasonable to expect a horse to die of old age. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchakov 108 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 oh my goodness Secretariat dies at 19 because of laminitis and it is linked to drug use so where the hell does that leave our greatest stakewinner who died of the same disease at 13 ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBHunter 100 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 oh my goodness Secretariat dies at 19 because of laminitis and it is linked to drug use so where the hell does that leave our greatest stakewinner who died of the same disease at 13 ? LOL There probably is a link but its got nothing to do with drugs. Ask your Vet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 Much revered was USA's big red...horse wins the Kentucky Derby in a race record time which despite improved tracks, nutrition and management, has been bettered in 40 years. Then wins the Belmont in World record time. So here's the much kept secret....as part of the memorabilia craze, everyone wanted a piece of the horse.....the shoes, the saddle, the bridle and even his horse dung. You could buy it at the time. And what did the strapper do, well he kept the hair that used to get caught up in the brush. Just so happens that this hair was stashed and found its way to the surface. DNA agreed with the assertion that the hair belonged to Big Red and then some bright spark, who's name shall remain nameles because it needs to, decided it would be interesting to see what was going on chemically with the horse and did some analysis. Sad to say it but the horse was alledgedly doped to the eye balls at the time that the hair was taken, which alledgedly was taken straight after both the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness and the Belmont...... Laurie Connel would have been impressed. Now said scientist wasn't interested in bursting the bubble but this cherub of information surfaced. I know the scientist's partner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 4,010 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 Well then if all one needs to do to get a positive reading that is so accurate why do they bother waiting around for horses to pee and take samples etc when all they have to do is lop a bit of mane off each and every time if it is so accurate? They should take a piece of mane off each and every horse before it races each and every time and at least store them, even if they don't test them immediately. By the way it was a very long time between when Secretariat raced and the 'Elephant Juice' saga of Laurie Connell. Was it really around undetected for that long and only used on one super star in that period? After all nothing else came close to doing what Secretariat did at that time. Nor was he ever distressed or have to be carried off the track after his wins. Were they selective when they used it. What about when beaten by Onion for example? Did they also use it throughout his 2 year old season when he was voted Horse of the Year, the first and only two year old to win the award? All this is leaving a sour taste in my mouth! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchakov 108 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 he is a sicko insider. who in the absence of facts , just makes a story up. Makes up wonder though Laurin didnt use elephant juice on all his horses and how Secretariat managed to come back start after start. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1 361 Report post Posted March 12, 2013 Much revered was USA's big red...horse wins the Kentucky Derby in a race record time which despite improved tracks, nutrition and management, has been bettered in 40 years. Then wins the Belmont in World record time. So here's the much kept secret....as part of the memorabilia craze, everyone wanted a piece of the horse.....the shoes, the saddle, the bridle and even his horse dung. You could buy it at the time. And what did the strapper do, well he kept the hair that used to get caught up in the brush. Just so happens that this hair was stashed and found its way to the surface. DNA agreed with the assertion that the hair belonged to Big Red and then some bright spark, who's name shall remain nameles because it needs to, decided it would be interesting to see what was going on chemically with the horse and did some analysis. Sad to say it but the horse was alledgedly doped to the eye balls at the time that the hair was taken, which alledgedly was taken straight after both the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness and the Belmont...... Laurie Connel would have been impressed. Now said scientist wasn't interested in bursting the bubble but this cherub of information surfaced. I know the scientist's partner. and i suppose that was secretariats personal brush, i love it storytime with berri Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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