BIG KAHUNA CHARITY PUNTERS CLUB CONTINUES THIS SATURDAY

We're Doomed
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2yo will be interesting. La Dorada a group 1, and group 2 win and 2nd. Return to Conquer a group 1 and a couple of group 3s. Might be one of the closest votes.
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scooby3051 reacted to a post in a topic: NEW ZEALAND HORSE OF THE YEAR AWARDS
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I have decided you are correct. He did win three group 1s from memory. I was tending to under-rate that because he didn't beat much and he failed in HK. But really, he can only beat what lines up against him, and he did. You can't really argue against three Group 1s. So yes, I imagine El Vencedor will be horse of the year, and rightly so.
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We're Doomed started following Can someone explain this to me. , NEW ZEALAND HORSE OF THE YEAR AWARDS , The Decline of Horse racing as a Cultural Institution and 1 other
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Perhaps we could all contribute and list who we think the noms will be for various categories and who we think "should" win. I will start by doing the 3yo category. Probably the easiest category. There will obviously be 5 noms: Savaglee, Captured by Love, Leica Lucy, Willydoit and Alabama Lass. The first four all won Group 1s. Alabama Lass won Group 2s and 3s and was placed at Group 1 against 3yos and against older horses in the Railway. As well she won a $500,000 race in Australia. Possibly the biggest NZ trained stakes winner in Aussie for the season. I think Savaglee will win the category. He won a Group 1 in NZ, was placed at Group 1 in the Australian Guineas and placed at WFA in a Group 1. I think Savaglee should almost be horse of the year as well as he was the only likely category winner who managed to carry his NZ form overseas. Perhaps others could sort out the other categories, since I took the easy one.
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We're Doomed reacted to a post in a topic: 1970's Centralization Proposals
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Big Kahuna Charity Punters Comp - Week 3 entry thread
We're Doomed replied to say no more's topic in Thoroughbred Cafe
A token $18 collect. -
We're Doomed reacted to a post in a topic: The Decline of Horse racing as a Cultural Institution
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The Decline of Horse racing as a Cultural Institution
We're Doomed replied to Rob75's topic in Thoroughbred Cafe
What a very interesting and complex subject. I suppose the key question is how much of the demise was inevitable and how much was self inflicted? There was certainly a degree of inevitability about it, but a significant part of the demise has been self inflicted. I got involved in racing in the late 70s and my peak punting years were probably the 80s which was really the boom decade for NZ racing, so I was very lucky. I started out going to Addington as more of a social outing, but then discovered I actually preferred the gallops, so I would go along to Riccarton often by myself as no one else liked the gallops in those days. In many ways Riccarton has gained the ascendancy in Canterbury these days, certainly compared to the 70s and 80s. Contrary to the suggestion in the original question, I think a significant percentage of racegoers and TAB punters in those days where involved because of the betting aspect and the love of the sport. I think it is this element that has really dropped away these days. The big crowds now tend to be mostly those there for the social outing and piss up. Cup Week used to be largely hard core punters from all over the country, now it is mostly those there for the piss-up. And on that subject, the big element increasingly missing these days is atmosphere. There always used to be atmosphere and excitement, even on a wet day, because there was usually an engaged and knowledgeable crowd in attendance. I often wonder what it must be like for jockeys and trainers, and even owners, when they look around and see only 200 or 300 people in attendance. It must be a bit discouraging. They must think why do we bother when no one is interested. The other big thing is disposable income. Back in the 80s my standard bet would be $10EW or $20EW, with $12 on a quinella or Trifecta and $8 on a treble. My annual income has probably gone up seven fold since then, but my betting has not increased seven fold. The basic beginners bet back then was $1EW. It is probably still the standard bet for many people. If betting had moved with inflation the minimum bet should be closer to $10EW. I think the failure of average bets to move with the times is largely down to disposable income. There was a lot of disposable income in the 80s and very little competition for it. These days with the cost of living and so much competition for the gambling dollar and disposable income generally racing has really been lost in the rush. Gambling people now have, lotto, gaming machines, online gaming, casinos etc. Sports people now have sky sport to fund, which enables them to sit at home and watch sport from all around the world, rugby and cricket games to attend, plus numerous other sports. People in general have to fund their mobile phones, overseas trips, restaurant visits, designer clothes etc. People are also time poor. Social media chews up a lot of time for many people. Even this ramble has just chewed up an hour of my morning. The short careers of the modern day horses where many of the better ones are retired to stud after one or two seasons of racing also doesn't help the general public to identify with certain horses. There won't be another Grey Way with 51 wins. And the demise of racing has coincided with the demise of the traditional media. Racing coverage in the media had already virtually disappeared now it is nonexistent. That doesn't help to attract public engagement and it has a flow on effect with attracting sponsorship. And I haven't even got on to the bit about where it all went wrong with the management of racing, and whether the industry should have been doing much better than it is. I think this is more than enough for today. -
We're Doomed reacted to a post in a topic: The Decline of Horse racing as a Cultural Institution
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We're Doomed reacted to a post in a topic: The Decline of Horse racing as a Cultural Institution
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Big Kahuna Charity Punters Comp - Week 3 entry thread
We're Doomed replied to say no more's topic in Thoroughbred Cafe
Sunshine Coast. Race 7. The Inflictor -
napier reacted to a post in a topic: What an absolute bloody fiasco
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Pam Robson reacted to a post in a topic: What an absolute bloody fiasco
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Pam Robson reacted to a post in a topic: What an absolute bloody fiasco
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Very good points Chik. Have trainers complained to their Assoc about bad management and has the Assoc done anything about it? The other group severely affected by incompetence of course are the clubs themselves. I have no idea who they complain to as it is their own governing body that is trying to shaft most of them.
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We're Doomed reacted to a post in a topic: What an absolute bloody fiasco
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That wasn't a consideration with the Riccarton transfer. Are you suggesting Riccarton was used as a guinea pig, or was it an example of NZTR arrogance?
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We're Doomed reacted to a post in a topic: What an absolute bloody fiasco
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As I said, you do not get the crux of the whole debate. No one is complaining about the AWTs as such. And in the NI they are probably utilised in a sensible manner. In the SI the AWT has been used to try and wipe out several long established clubs and deprive trainers of any option. I have tried to explain this several times. Either you understand it or you don't. I won't try to explain it again. So you are safe from any further debate on this matter.
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The big question then is why not transfer it to the AWT tomorrow? That track is all set up and ready to go. It's really just a matter of the pie man travelling about 45 minutes further to Awapuni.,
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We're Doomed reacted to a post in a topic: What an absolute bloody fiasco
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We're Doomed reacted to a post in a topic: ATC
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You really do not understand the crux of this whole debate TA. Lisa had the choice of whether to race on the AWT or the turf. She clearly decided that most of her horses were better suited to $17,000 races on the AWT rather than $35,000 and $40,000 races on a wet grass track, and good on her. The point though, is that she had a choice and could decide what option suited each of her horses. SI trainers do not have a choice. The idea of choice in the SI is basically the equivalent of: bullet or gas chamber?
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People don't have to be experts to have an opinion. I'm a great believer in the expert, and happy to ask their advice on things in their field of expertise. That probably applies more to things like plumbing and engineering rather than horse racing. Horses can quickly make a total fool of any "expert". I have fond memories of being in a TAB and seeing High Court judges discussing horses with the local street sweeper. Each had their own opinions, sometimes they agreed. No one could say either person's opinion was superior to the other's despite their different backgrounds. Over the years we have seen people who are absolute experts in their own fields, but who have made a total harsh of trying to run Racing at many levels.
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We're Doomed reacted to a post in a topic: What an absolute bloody fiasco
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I suppose the big question is if the open entry races are such a great idea in the NI why aren't they used at the Yaldhurst provincial track?
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As you say Pam, the options are limited. The obvious option is Timaru, but as well as being on the "fuck off, you're not wanted" list, Timaru also lacks a 1,400m start point, something that should have been rectified years ago, so the club does bear some responsibility for that. Ideally, those horses preparing for the Winter Cup would like a 1,400m race before the 1,600m race at Oamaru in a few weeks. For me, the most incredible aspect of all this is the extreme arrogance of NZTR in not even mentioning the loss of the vital Winter Cup lead up race. Contrast that with the ANZAC day abandonment when NZTR rushed in and added $20,000 to the stake of a Te Rapa race because three relatively low grade northern horses missed a start at Awapuni. The inconsistency of these decisions is extraordinary. The very least NZTR could have done would have been to run the Cup Trial next week on the AWT. Obviously it would not have been ideal, but it would have been something. The slightly better option would have been to run that race on the grass next week alongside the AWT meeting. I'm fairly confident most people will agree with me that if this had happened in the NI there would have been a totally different response. I feel so sorry for the Southland trainers who travelled all that way. Dennis and Tyler had already been affected by the April AWT fiasco at Riccarton. Robert Dennis does such a good job forming syndicates to race several horses. How he explains all this to his owners and justifies the costs of it all is beyond me. I can see why Kelvin Tyler races some of his better horses in Australia and the NI. And I can see why some Southland trainers are fairly insular in their outlook. Their experiences in Canterbury have not been great. Of course, potentially the biggest loser out of all this is the CJC. There are likely to be very few southern horses fit enough to be competitive in the Winter Cup and there is now a NI race worth more than the Winter Cup a couple of weeks beforehand which some NI horses will target instead. And that race is at New Plymouth which probably has about a 50% chance of being abandoned anyhow, so those using it as a warm up will be worried. I have noticed in recent weeks that every time some plodder wins a maiden race in the north the trackside presenters rush out and ask the trainer if they will be setting it for the Winter Cup. Obviously desperate to build up some hype and interest. A Winter Cup that has been on a warning and likely to be surpassed by the Opunake race in years to come.
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I can't argue with that. Because I really have no idea what it is supposed to mean and I can't follow the logic at all.