Tainui, Where is the $250,000,000 now ?

[Grahame Noblet 2]

....Aotearoa New Zealand.

I think you may have a fact wrong,this country is New Zealand,show me where it is officially recognized by the name you call it,and even if you can,it will always be called New Zealand,regardless of what all the religious and lefty,pointy headed politically correct organisations think it should be called.

[Guest Quarter horse]

I think your stretching the term 'aboriginal title' to it's nth degree if you believe that means Maori have sole ownership of the country if they were here first.

Dennis. There's a few things you need to get up to speed about.

Firstly in regards to Native (or Aboriginal) Title. The English Common Law (which is where Native Title originated) became an adjunct to Maori Customary Law under Article 3 of Te Tiriti O Waitangi. Under the Common Law, Native Title can only be extinguished by statute with the full and free consent of the owners. Consent to extinguish native title was not given under Te Tiriti O Waitangi.

The precedent of Native Title has been acknowledged in the Courts through the following decisions.

Tamaki V Baker:

In Tamaki V Baker; The Privy Council rejected the argument that there was no Maori customary law, and commented that it was 'rather late in the day' for New Zealand courts to adopt such a view, given that several existing New Zealand statutes, including the nineteenth-century Native Lands Acts, referred to Maori custom. The Privy Council

[Guest Quarter horse]

I think you may have a fact wrong,this country is New Zealand,show me where it is officially recognized by the name you call it,and even if you can,it will always be called New Zealand,regardless of what all the religious and lefty,pointy headed politically correct organisations think it should be called.

Here's a tip Grahame.

Have a close listen to the words of our national anthem the next time it is sung; as I'm positive it makes reference to both 'Aotearoa' and 'New Zealand'.

The Maori culture is critical to one of this country's biggest earners in 'tourism', so I'm sorry to have to tell you this but the title 'Aotearoa New Zealand' is here to stay (unless you want to bury your head in the sand of course).

[Grahame Noblet 2]

Here's a tip Grahame.

Have a close listen to the words of our national anthem the next time it is sung]

For your info,New Zealand has two national anthems:- "God Defend New Zealand" and "God Save the Queen".

I have just read through both and I can find no reference to Aotearoa New Zealand in either,so out of curiosity I looked at the Maori version and I see that Aotearoa is mentioned,but the words when translated mean zilch,as the words were manipulated many times to suitably fit the melody.

http://www.nationalanthems.info

[Dennis 0]

"And it's all very well to say that 'they should just get on with it'. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your ancestors had have had a heap of land stolen from them then you'd be doing everything you could to correct that"

Well actually my grandparents all emigrated from Ireland. I am sure you are aware of the reasons why there was mass Irish emigration in the 1800's.

My grandparents were semi-illiterate but they pushed education, so my family have done very well in NZ.

Needless to say none of us dwell on what happened in the 1800's.

Sure there were injustices done but if you look at the Irish communities in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the US they have all done well.

Do you think if they had spent all there time and effort trying to seek redress from the English that they would have the same level of success?

[Guest Quarter horse]

Do you think if they had spent all there time and effort trying to seek redress from the English that they would have the same level of success?

I refuse to be drawn into a debate with someone who doesn't know the difference between 'there, their, and they're'.

Having said that, you sound like an expert, so please outline to us all what legal grounds the Irish may have had for seeking redress.

And I don't just want what you 'think' it is Dennis; I want actual legal precedents or enactments that support your argument...though I won't hold my breath...anyone who can't spell 'their' is surely going to struggle with a task such as this.

[Guest Quarter horse]

....so out of curiosity I looked at the Maori version

That about sums you up Grahame.

After all these years of having the Maori and English version of the anthem sung back-to-back, you've only just now "looked at the Maori version out of curiosity" to see if the word Aotearoa was in there!

Tut tut Grahame.

Most decent Aotearoa New Zealanders could have told you that word was in there without having to look it up.

[jack 431]

I wouldn't expect a stupid thick person to understand South African spelling?

....I should have expected an aparthied view from a south african ...

[Grahame Noblet 2]

Most decent Aotearoa New Zealanders could have told you that word was in there without having to look it up.

I am a New Zealander not an ANZ'er,and that word is not in the official version,which is in English.

I had to look up the Maori version as it means nothing to me,and I never actually listen to it,the words do not make much sense as they were manipulated to fit the music,and the OFFICIAL version was after all written in English.

So,no matter what PC thinkers (That's an oxymoron ) say,there are still only the two anthems that are official - GDNZ and GSTQ.

[Guest Quarter horse]

I am a New Zealander not an ANZ'er,and that word is not in the official version,which is in English.

I had to look up the Maori version as it means nothing to me,and I never actually listen to it,the words do not make much sense as they were manipulated to fit the music,and the OFFICIAL version was after all written in English.

So,no matter what PC thinkers (That's an oxymoron ) say,there are still only the two anthems that are official - GDNZ and GSTQ.

I feel sorry for you Grahame. The 'browning' of Aotearoa New Zealand is only going to increase, as is the prevalence of new-born with brown skin.

There's still time to embrace this multi-cultural society we all live in now Grahame; it's all about having the right mental attitude and embracing change.

[myk 4]

....I should have expected an aparthied view from a south african ...

Yep,after intervention from other country's over years,SA learnt their wrongs and changed.No doubt Jack in "81 you were protesting against apartheid(or as a gang member against the police)and today your race are still practising apartheid with your sports teams,political party's,all the silly old fools like yourself.And as you are still active in practising and living by apartheid,I would have thought by now you would have learnt the correct spelling of the word.But I do understand Jack,you are a poor suffering maori who has been deprived of any proper education by the pakeha and their systems.

[jack 431]

Yep,after intervention from other country's over years,SA learnt their wrongs and changed.No doubt Jack in "81 you were protesting against apartheid(or as a gang member against the police)and today your race are still practising apartheid with your sports teams,political party's,all the silly old fools like yourself.And as you are still active in practising and living by apartheid,I would have thought by now you would have learnt the correct spelling of the word.But I do understand Jack,you are a poor suffering maori who has been deprived of any proper education by the pakeha and their systems.

Aparthied isn`t in our vocabulary...Nor should it be...Your country has its own problems ...like not allowing maori to travel there and competing against blacks...Maybe you need the history/education lesson ....

[myk 4]

Aparthied isn`t in our vocabulary...Nor should it be...Your country has its own problems ...like not allowing maori to travel there and competing against blacks...Maybe you need the history/education lesson ....[/quote

Why would SA want maori's when NZ can't even control them.SA is now a united country,don't need negative visitors.

[bblunt 334]

Why would SA want maori's when NZ can't even control them.

There really are some crackingly good one liners in this section which could've come straight out of the mouth of a 19th century slave trader

[DC7 1]

"And it's all very well to say that 'they should just get on with it'. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if your ancestors had have had a heap of land stolen from them then you'd be doing everything you could to correct that"

Needless to say none of us dwell on what happened in the 1800's.

That is a contradiction of epic proportions

No, why would you bother doing everything to correct the incorrectible? If you go back 300 years any given person has a minumum of 4000 ancestors, sooner or later you'd end up being descended from both 'sides'. Since Europeans came here, the average Maori living today would have about 528 ancestors(9 generations). Even if 10% of their ancestors were British, they all have 50 Pakeha anxestors. Where do you draw the line and stop cherry picking your ancestors for personal gain?

[Guest Quarter horse]

That is a contradiction of epic proportions

No, why would you bother doing everything to correct the incorrectible? If you go back 300 years any given person has a minumum of 4000 ancestors, sooner or later you'd end up being descended from both 'sides'. Since Europeans came here, the average Maori living today would have about 528 ancestors(9 generations). Even if 10% of their ancestors were British, they all have 50 Pakeha anxestors. Where do you draw the line and stop cherry picking your ancestors for personal gain?

Simple 'yes or no' question David.

Can you provide the evidence to back this claim up?

[DC7 1]

Simple 'yes or no' question David.

Can you provide the evidence to back this claim up?

What 'claim' ?

[Guest Quarter horse]

What 'claim' ?

This one: "Even if 10% of their ancestors were British, they all have 50 Pakeha anxestors".

[Dennis 0]

I refuse to be drawn into a debate with someone who doesn't know the difference between 'there, their, and they're'.

Having said that, you sound like an expert, so please outline to us all what legal grounds the Irish may have had for seeking redress.

And I don't just want what you 'think' it is Dennis]

Your obviously the lawyer, you go look it up yourself.

Though given you won't have any one to charge, I doubt you'd bother.

[Guest Quarter horse]

Your obviously the lawyer, you go look it up yourself.

Though given you won't have any one to charge, I doubt you'd bother.

As I thought: another claim that is based without facts and motivated by a desire to discriminate.

[teletubby 1]

funny quarter, whemn you say it, it is factual..

when someone else says it.. it is misguided facts.

i know you don't give a toss about what i say and think,,so....

not since the days of craig kennett have i heard discrimination like yours ...half truths and bull****.. most on here agree in part with what maori are doing but...common sense must pervail,i guess with some maori that won't happen in our life time.. maybe a centry or two's time... quite sad really... a different approch, all this may had finnished and maori may even had ,had the land back....instead.we laugh at you and your mates... and wonder what would/could have been.

[Dennis 0]

As I thought: another claim that is based without facts and motivated by a desire to discriminate.

Cry me a river.

[Guest Quarter horse]

funny quarter, whemn you say it, it is factual..

when someone else says it.. it is misguided facts.

i know you don't give a toss about what i say and think,,so....

not since the days of craig kennett have i heard discrimination like yours ...half truths and bull****.. most on here agree in part with what maori are doing but...common sense must pervail,i guess with some maori that won't happen in our life time.. maybe a centry or two's time... quite sad really... a different approch, all this may had finnished and maori may even had ,had the land back....instead.we laugh at you and your mates... and wonder what would/could have been.

You're right. I don't care what you say and I have no interest in debating with someone who can't use proper punctuation or even construct a sentence.

What I will say to all of you is this.

I have presented facts of law that have proved your claims to be nothing more than racist opinions from a collection of bigots.

Nothing half-truth whatsoever in what I have presented. The case precedents I have provided are evidence of this; yet I still have more up my sleeve.

I am waiting for one of you, any of you in fact, to prove me wrong with something other than a personal opinion.

I think I'll be waiting a long time...

[Guest Quarter horse]

Cry me a river.

There's no crying on my part Dennis.

In fact, I'm laughing out loud at your inability to provide any facts to support your flimsy opinion.

C'mon Dennis. Your fellow, white, Aotearoa New Zealanders are relying on you!

[teletubby 1]

very well put HONE...

cause your not a bigot are you...

you only go by what you claim is law....

nothing you say is really law as such... what it is, is generaliation of the law and facts that have been twisted to suit from 170 years ago..and in most quarters only your opinion...

you clearly are an maori activist.. so .. for what it is worth.. take your middle finger and sit on it..

as for my spelling etc.. i write like that so dickheads like you understand what is being said to you....enjoy ... fella bigot...