tim vince 985 Report post Posted March 12, 2015 3 northern meeting in 5 days - Auckland has best stakes by a furlong yet the lowest number of horses why is this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnevans 71 Report post Posted March 12, 2015 Had to laugh at Mick and the Whale on the Box Seat making a play for Auckland and more or less calling the bulk of northern trainers and owners idiots for not racing at Auckland even if they have no chance or very little chance of winning. How many do Mick and Whale have in work at the moment? They could race all theirs at Auckland. Nothing stopping them is there? They don't understand that even though most of us payers in the game know we won't end up ahead of the play, we do like winning when possible. The few wins we do get is what keeps us going. Not making up the numbers and hoping to run a place at Auckland like Mick stated. I'll say this again. That the industry has only been looking after the elite for years and it's all coming home to roost now. One of the few rules they've brought in to help the battler is the drop back rule. Most of the others are for the elite. I also note that they usually make these rules changes via the HRNZ committee and not at the main conference for clubs. Might as well do away with the annual conference and save some money for each of the clubs. I think the Auckland committee man here has stated that HRNZ is holding them back so I'm more having a go at HRNZ than Auckland Trotting Club myself. Without knowing all the local politics, I blame the rules in place for the elite and HRNZ make these rules. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nslram 80 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 Although Tim And Paul have an agenda against ATC Board they are correct that ATC have trouble filling fields and probably because of perception that it's harder to win there than Cambridge which I find difficult to understand as a majority of races at both meetings are programmed similar with stakes been major difference. However the comparison between ATC and Cambridge this week is a poor comparison which I'm sure Tim and Paul are are smart enough to be aware of but it doesn't suit them to acknowledge it. There are 3 races at Cambridge- 2 sires stakes heats and a Nevele R 3yo fillies heat which totals 13 horses that would normally race at Auckland. If you added those 13 to the 81 acceptors at ATC you would have 94 compared to Cambridge 90 acceptors less the 13 leaves 77 . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSprat 947 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 You guys can argue the semantics of numbers at one club verse another until you're blue in the face. It's a pointless exercise that solves nothing. The real problem is breeding numbers, which are still falling, and since there is a delay of about 4 years between mares going to stud, and the resulting foals racing, we can expect racing stock numbers to continue falling for at least another 4 years - and that's if the fall in breeding numbers can be arrested immediately - or else the racing stock numbers could continue to dwindle for even longer. Take a look at field sizes 4 or 5 years ago compared to now, and project that trend 4 or 5 years into the future, then you'll begin to understand the magnitude of the problem northern trotting faces. Unless the ATC has some great ideas on rejuvenating the breeding industry, the prizemoney levels will be of no interest to anyone, because there won't be enough horses to run any meetings. The upside to that is that the club will be able to expand their property development plans, as the track won't be needed for racing any longer. That'll make the ATC the most cashed up non-trotting club in history. hedley 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nslram 80 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 You are right Jack and we don't have any great ideas. My view is stud fees are too dear and leadership from HRNZ is hard to find. My view as an owner and breeder is they should change their name to HRSI which is really what they are and we in the North Island could then live or die by our own decisions . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim vince 985 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 I don't have an agenda against board as far as racing goes- I supported YOur handicap system which as I recall you said if you didn't get it through u would resign. it was very good what happened ? john evans have no idea who he is but it is hard not too agree with hIm nearly all the time. I support the board trying to secure the future of trotting I just question whether they are doing things in the best interest of the game and don't know if gambling alex park's future on a huge project is right. I have seen too many developers go bust and I am not sure we have the expertise on the board- I do hope they are successful- why wouldn't I. My pathetic little current dispute with the board doesn't mean I want them to fail that would be childish-I could never understand if the apartments were going to be the thing that saved the club why we would want to be involved with the blues without I am told no guarantee from the nzrfu seems ludicrous- . but I do wan all the projects to succeed Bigger stakes I want em. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim vince 985 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 81 acceptors close to 70 starters u can give all the spin trainers wont race at Auckland for what reason I don't know- my view why be cannon fodder with say a bad c1 against horses who run really quick- the club needs to have their own handicap system like the one u propose . No one is going to turn up just too have a runner when they no they have no chance of being in the money I am sure you understand that. as a former trainer who has had a lot of experience in Australia u can understand that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nslram 80 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 I totally agree but that's why we programme conditioned races but still can't get close to filling them. Half the horses racing at Cambridge have no hope running in the money either. What about my idea to give every unplaced starter at ATC $500 which is about what you get for running 3rd at Cambridge. Do you see any merit in that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnevans 71 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 The one good thing about all these small fields is that it's better for the owners and trainers. Not so good for drivers. Less drives for them of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 I apologise for this blank space. For some, this post will provide a metaphor in relation to my mental capabilities. All the best. Ashoka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay 1,720 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 For my penny's worth, I can't help wondering if, with the falling horse population, clubs are trying to run too many races just to keep the owners/trainers happy. Why run 10 races, as was the case tonight, with most of the fields under 10 runners, when surely 8 races would have sufficed. Sure, the odd horse may have been eliminated, but I remember not too far back when horses were regularly eliminated or balloted and the racing was good and the betting far more competitive than we have these days. Yes, I know clubs want keep everybody happy, but surely to the detriment of the product I would consider as folly. Programming has to be realistically addressed - and if it means relinquishing licences, so be it. Why run a meeting just for the sake of it. Yes, it's a national problem not just a northern one, but as has always happened the north seems to be hit first mainly because of the horse numbers available. It wont be too long before the Auckland or dare I say it New Zealand Cup will only contain one or two open class horses. Perhaps a little far fetched, but a look at the list of exported horses surely must be of concern. One, and often no wins, and they off to Aussie where many become Aussie's next grand circuit stars. We, the club members, appoint the Industry leaders to our committees/boards to address these matters, but all we seem to get is such statements as "we are controlled by the Racing board and can't do anything" or other such inane offerings. It's time the "too hard basket" was emptied and the carpet raised just to see what has been swept under it over the years and some action and leadership shown. The industry has been let to run down for too long now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsvman 295 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 10 races ten winning connections I'm happy with that as we need to keep owners in the game.also think junior claims where they can drop back one grade should be for every race c2 and above as the young drivers struggle to get drives and that is where the future is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim vince 985 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 everyone struggles to get drives when only 72 starters- I agree with junior claims though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay 1,720 Report post Posted March 14, 2015 hsv - ok then - why not have 15 races of 4 horses each - 15 winning connections or even 20 races???? Just being facetious! Like Mr Vince I certainly not against a C3 in a C2 race with a junior driver but again above C2 level apart from perhaps preferential draw, they all race each other so why would you want to put on a 5 career win driver instead of a 500 career win driver just to draw 1 or 2 spots closer - unless you made all juniors draw all the inner spots, which then could end up with OC's drawn inside C3's and I sure the owners/trainers would not go for this. Or else all races become stands. Everything comes back I think to numbers - and numbers are falling every year, and whether you are a senior or a junior driver you cant magically create extra drives and of course for every extra drive a junior gets a senior dips out. As I said I dont know the answer but all ideas have to be examined by "them" and maybe, just maybe, someone may come up with an idea which may either in full or in part be useful. One thing however in my opinion is quite certain - we cant keep bumbling along like we are at present. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsvman 295 Report post Posted March 14, 2015 I know it is mainly about horse numbers but in ten or so years times if the young person numbers have continued to drop away it won't matter if there 200 horses horses around if no ones there to train them. In the last 15 years how many juniors ors stable hands have given the game away through lack of opportunities. I cold count upward of 30 just from the north that I know of the have work in a stables for 3or 4 years at least and got no real opportunities to prove themselves and have moved on else where to different industry's. In Tony's herlihy off the track interview recently he was asked what he'd like to be doing in ten years time and the way he answered it was along the lines of training a small few and maybe just driving those ones. Didnt sound like he was looking to train a big team for all that much longer. (that's just how it came across to me ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beef 74 Report post Posted March 14, 2015 To encourage more horses to race at Auckland the ATC probably has to ignore HRNZ and format what ever races they like with what ever conditions are required. These races would be deemed penalty free in the north regardless what penalty HRNZ gives them. The majority of horses in these lower grades will never race out of the North Island so who cares what official class HRNZ gives them, they can just keep racing locally until moved on. We should also exclude early 2 or 3 yr olds who have outstanding age group form, but have now dropped down to c0 - c2s. They can race against other horses of their own ability and not struggling c0 -c2s. This should also encourage more horses to race at Auckland rather than Cambridge or further south. hsvman 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim vince 985 Report post Posted March 15, 2015 whatever not easy but I still like mr greens handicap system an don't know why they wont adopt it- if it don't work do but gotta have a go- problem with shorter cards is that they make money opening abeer and don't want to send everyone home too early Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
