Smoken Up positive swab

[IWMC 69]

As an owner with Lance we know he trains and drives his horses hard. Ask his staff. Some horses respond like Smoken Up and to a lesser extent my trotter Earl of Mot. (20 wins $300K).

Another mare I sent there from NZ won on arrival but after a spell could not handle his training methods yet came back here and won (Ella Powell).

Fit, hardened horses can do the extreme at times...like certain humans can. Lets not be to judgemental. Wait for the second test. Even then whose to say....

I am reliably told this drug is applied to the skin and not through the mouth. A simple pat or stroke is enough to apply it. Who is to say one of the 50 plus people who gave him a pat after the win and before the swab did not have an ulterior motive. eg a placegetter.

The ability to touch a horse pre swabbing under these circumstancs must be seen as a serious flaw in our swabbing process which needs addressing, regardless of the outcome.

Lance you have the Motley crews support.

[dougie1 0]

well written IWMC but why did you have to add the comment EG placegetter???- poor form mate.

[Flashing Red 0]

Don't know about that comment, given that DMSO is so fat soluble it is just about the best carrying agent you can get for transporting other drugs across membranes....not saying it was or wasn't used in that capacity but your interpretation is not strictly correct nor accurate.

I agree with you with DMSO being an excellent carrier. I personally use it in conjunction with liniments applied to the leg with or without a glad wrap sweat and a pad/bandage.

But as for it being a performance enhancing drug in itself I draw the line and if you believe otherwise we'll have to agree to disagree. The current swab shows traces of DMSO and no other drug - prima facie not a carrying agent therefore in this case. I'm saddened by the fact that a lack of knowledge of both therapeutic and performance enhancing drugs has seen many a poster come out of the woodwork "torch and pitchfork style". I applaud the southern hemisphere for their no drug tolerance stance - but we are talking about DMSO, not a substance like EPO. Furthermore, results of the independent test are not yet in, yet people are already calling for heads to roll. Sad indeed.

[I Have Left 463]

I am reliably told this drug is applied to the skin and not through the mouth. A simple pat or stroke is enough to apply it. Who is to say one of the 50 plus people who gave him a pat after the win and before the swab did not have an ulterior motive. eg a placegetter.

So who was it then IWMC, was it ITMQ or BAF or even SS

I doubt it was anyone associated with these three horses but you obviously think different

[Idolmite 2,567]

So who was it then IWMC, was it ITMQ or BAF or even SS

I doubt it was anyone associated with these three horses but you obviously think different

eg means as an example, he didn't say they HAD done it, sheeesh

[Johny Battler 0]

I have been a member for just under a year and regularly read everyones posts on this site... Its usually a good read and I never feel compelled to post, but seriously. Some of the comments past on this thread are down right disgusting and illogical.

So as far as I can see, the facts are (as sourced from this forum and news articals):

-Post race swab irregular and the pre-race swab is clear?

-Trace amounts of the sustance are an ants fart from international tollerance.

- Substance is the DMSO gel type product a dangerously absorbant product that apparently is so fast that if you get it on your hand you can taste metal and has a notable aroma from the animal.

- The horse was incontact with numerous people directly after the race but prior to swab.

So in conclusion, you would have to expect that if anything was administered/used 48hrs out like someone, somewhere has suggested there would have been a definate indicator on the pre-race swab and a notable aroma from the horse and or Paste/Gel on the horse somewhere.

Still concluding, the fact that the horse was not directly swabed after the race and could possibly have been contaminated by an extremely agressive substance by various other scenarios would surely be enough grounds to have the whole post race swab thrown out of court in an appeal.

This is a non-event.

Well done Smoken Up and Lance the ID11 Champions

Apparently you are as good as the greats like Paleface Adios and so-on. Only they could have what you did in the ID series with out DMSO and as soon as its thrown out you will join the greats!

[aquaman 1,352]

I have been a member for just under a year and regularly read everyones posts on this site... Its usually a good read and I never feel compelled to post, but seriously. Some of the comments past on this thread are down right disgusting and illogical.

So as far as I can see, the facts are (as sourced from this forum and news articals):

-Post race swab irregular and the pre-race swab is clear?

-Trace amounts of the sustance are an ants fart from international tollerance.

- Substance is the DMSO gel type product a dangerously absorbant product that apparently is so fast that if you get it on your hand you can taste metal and has a notable aroma from the animal.

- The horse was incontact with numerous people directly after the race but prior to swab.

So in conclusion, you would have to expect that if anything was administered/used 48hrs out like someone, somewhere has suggested there would have been a definate indicator on the pre-race swab and a notable aroma from the horse and or Paste/Gel on the horse somewhere.

Still concluding, the fact that the horse was not directly swabed after the race and could possibly have been contaminated by an extremely agressive substance by various other scenarios would surely be enough grounds to have the whole post race swab thrown out of court in an appeal.

This is a non-event.

Well done Smoken Up and Lance the ID11 Champions

Apparently you are as good as the greats like Paleface Adios and so-on. Only they could have what you did in the ID series with out DMSO and as soon as its thrown out you will join the greats!

Well said. Smoken Up ID Champion, and Lance Justice top trainer and driver. This is a media beatup all about nothing.

[gjay 0]

1,deny deny deny 2,find a broke no hoping stablehand in the area at the time 3,"persuade' him to remember having treated a horse with dmso earlier in the day and how his disgusting personal hygiene habits meant he never washed before attending the biggest day of harness racing of the year and how he was so excited after the final he couldnt resist going over to pat smoken up while he was getting ungeared 4"remind"him of the consequences of changing his story 5 MYSTERY SOLVED

[Idolmite 2,567]

Don't blame the media aquaman, jeeeez, all they've done is reported the facts as they stand to date. It doesn't seem to matter what sport you follow, every time the media reports anything addicted followers of that particular sport don't like, forums set up for followers of that sport only are full of "media beat up" type comments. The poor old media get it in the neck when they don't report something, then get it again when they do. The media is the media, covering all news, and aren't here as cheerleaders for your chosen addiction.

[gjay 0]

Two words gypsies, Alberto Contador.

He didn't do it, he had minute traces of clenbuterol only just above threshold levels, he pled contamination by ingested meat, he is gone, as is his title.

and the great gai waterhouse cocaine positive, blamed everything from contaminated banknotes to scarface style stablehands,at the end of the day guilty despite never doing it

[MAORISIDOL 0]

You are spot on.

Consider this everyone...

From what i have read there are 2 extremely important issues to be brought before a court, IF the 2nd sample comes back irregular, and then if and when Lance appeals.

1. Apparently up to 50 people had contact with Smoken Up before and after the race.

2. The substance is easily administered by hand (tho not pleasant, but actually possible)

So, any one of these people may have unknowingly or purposely done this.

All the Defence has to prove is that the above was possible, and it is, and Lance is off the hook, because you cant find someone guilty on a "maybe he did it". Now i am no lawyer but that seems straight forward to me!

And now can i ask all the kiwi Lance haters what they think of Richard Brosnan? "How Interdominion champion Smoken Up has returned a positive test to DMSO is a complete mystery to one of New Zealand's most respected harness racing trainers, Richard Brosnan, who hosted the horse during the series in Auckland.

Brosnan said yesterday he felt as devastated as Justice when told a swab irregularity had been declared in the sample taken from Smoken Up after his pacing Grand Final win on April 8.

While Brosnan said he did have the detected anti-inflammatory dimethyl sulphoxide at his Ardmore stable, there was no possibility of contamination as he had not used any for two years.

Not only had Justice not used the pungent-smelling liniment during the series, Brosnan said he had used no medication at all during his stay.

"How it's there is mind-boggling but it's certainly nothing Lance has done. I know the guy uses nothing.

"I stayed with him for a month in Melbourne with Pompallier and he never used anything the whole time I was there.

"He does feed well with vitamins and things, but his stance against drugs is well known. He says there's no place for drugs and, if there was any doubt about anything, he wouldn't use it. That's the way he is."

Brosnan said he felt sorry for Justice who "had been lined up against the wall and shot" even before the B sample had been tested.

[MAORISIDOL 0]

Your post..."Thirdly over the years of being around harness racing and the people involved in it, I have had it said to me on numerous occasions by people in the know, 'if a horse pulls out and rips round em at the 600/400 and takes off, it's on something!' on the second night I was sitting with a group they were all people involved in the sport, owners, trainers, breeders etc and we watched Smoken Up's effort, one of the comments made was 'Oh well that's that he's just gutted that horse, unless he's on something he'll never get up off the track next week!' they all agreed.

I do believe Smoken Up was swabbed that night and nothing came of it, does that mean THAT NIGHT your cronies were wrong? i think so.

Think of his Miracle Mile win, sat in the death outside Blackie, 1:50. something, swabbed, no result. Think of Elsu dominating his ID carnival, unbeaten in heats, blitzed the final, was there any swab issues, or was he just better than them all? Think of him winning the Hunter Cup in Melbourne, he smashed 'em, swab ok.

Think of Blackie winning his Hunter Cup from 30m, swab ok.

Do you think Lyell Creek ever went around the field and or took off at the 400-600 mark and blitzed the field? Were his swabs ok?

Mate, sometimes you get bloody good horses, trained well who race to their life peak.

I am sure your old cronies sitting up there in the grandstand with their blankets on their laps sipping their pre-prepared thermos are old kiwis who like to bash anything that shows above ordinary performance.

Rewind 5-10 years ago, think about what you knew about the trots at that point.

If someone said to you an Aussie horse, or kiwi for that matter would run 1:50 something while sitting in the death and 3yolds run 1:52-3 would you have believed it? Well guess what, the sport, the breeding, the horses are better nowadays.

Oh and tell your grandstand fogies that Cardigan Bay has retired...

[globederby 8]

Your post..."Thirdly over the years of being around harness racing and the people involved in it, I have had it said to me on numerous occasions by people in the know, 'if a horse pulls out and rips round em at the 600/400 and takes off, it's on something!' on the second night I was sitting with a group they were all people involved in the sport, owners, trainers, breeders etc and we watched Smoken Up's effort, one of the comments made was 'Oh well that's that he's just gutted that horse, unless he's on something he'll never get up off the track next week!' they all agreed.

I do believe Smoken Up was swabbed that night and nothing came of it, does that mean THAT NIGHT your cronies were wrong? i think so.

Think of his Miracle Mile win, sat in the death outside Blackie, 1:50. something, swabbed, no result. Think of Elsu dominating his ID carnival, unbeaten in heats, blitzed the final, was there any swab issues, or was he just better than them all? Think of him winning the Hunter Cup in Melbourne, he smashed 'em, swab ok.

Think of Blackie winning his Hunter Cup from 30m, swab ok.

Do you think Lyell Creek ever went around the field and or took off at the 400-600 mark and blitzed the field? Were his swabs ok?

Mate, sometimes you get bloody good horses, trained well who race to their life peak.

I am sure your old cronies sitting up there in the grandstand with their blankets on their laps sipping their pre-prepared thermos are old kiwis who like to bash anything that shows above ordinary performance.

Rewind 5-10 years ago, think about what you knew about the trots at that point.

If someone said to you an Aussie horse, or kiwi for that matter would run 1:50 something while sitting in the death and 3yolds run 1:52-3 would you have believed it? Well guess what, the sport, the breeding, the horses are better nowadays.

Oh and tell your grandstand fogies that Cardigan Bay has retired...

Brilliant, and right on the mark. :y:

[gjay 0]

gee why is jail full of drug mules found with suitcases full of drugs who dont touch the stuff or dont know anything about it?

[rufus001 0]

and to a lesser extent my trotter Earl of Mot. (20 wins $300K).

I seriously love your horse. So does my wallet.

[smoken up 0]

I seriously love your horse. So does my wallet.

Rufus!! Great to see you back from a spell.

Where have you been the last 7 or so months?

[optimist 1]

Upshot is if it comes back positive he's a goneburger.

[rufus001 0]

Rufus!! Great to see you back from a spell.

Where have you been the last 7 or so months?

I thought I'd give this forum a bit of a rest until the new moderators/owners took a bit of a chill pill. Things seem to have settled down a bit now.

[Kate 0]

During the last Interdoms held in Auckland there were security guards stationed at all stables where finals horses were stabled during the last 24 hrs before the race. They took the names of every entering the barn and one stable hand said they even wrote down his description right down to what he was wearing. We visited one such barn and were asked what we were there for and had to give our names - we made sure we went no where near the horse in the final.

Just wondered if these measures were in place this time?

[I Have Left 463]

There was one security guard at main entrance.

I had an owners pass so he let me in straight away but once inside the stables their appeared to be no security surrounding the interdom finalists.

Most of them were in the back corner but their were so many people (mostly owners i guess) around you didnt really know who they were or what horses they were their for.

BAF was being paraded around by Natalie and she must have stopped several times for people to pat the horse and have their photo taken with him.

[MAORISIDOL 0]

Question.

Under your name it says "administrator".

exactly what does that involve, does that kind of mean you run this website?

are you then responsible for its success?

[MAORISIDOL 0]

making the rules is great, does that mean you are owner or part owner or employee?

[MAORISIDOL 0]

Ok, so no definitive answer...

it just intrigues me that in your position you bag your customers, seems a strange business practice...

[MAORISIDOL 0]

i quite like the site and having some interesting "discussions" between fans of Harness is all good.

It just strikes me when a person seemingly in charge of running something like this talks to his customers the way you do.

I own a gym, and if i called all my members and Personal Training clients fat bastards i wouldnt be in business for the 27 years that i have.

I guess this makes sense that this is not a profit driven scenario and makes sense you are certainly not the owner.

[Kate 0]

There was one security guard at main entrance.

I had an owners pass so he let me in straight away but once inside the stables their appeared to be no security surrounding the interdom finalists.

Most of them were in the back corner but their were so many people (mostly owners i guess) around you didnt really know who they were or what horses they were their for.

BAF was being paraded around by Natalie and she must have stopped several times for people to pat the horse and have their photo taken with him.

I think you misunderstood my post - these guards were at individual stables not at Alexandra Park. If you had a horse or were hosting a horse in the stable a security guard from (say Armourguard - as I can't actually remeber which company it was) was stationed at your barn.