Closing down tracks

[halfmanhalfbiscuit 0]

Two simple questions:

1 - Are you in favour of closing down any existing galloping tracks in New Zealand? Yes or no.

2 - If yes, name all the tracks you think should be closed down.

Keep to the topic. You can offer reasons if you like. Be interesting to see peoples thinking on this subject.

I'll start by saying yes.

Tracks to be closed down - Winton, Wyndham, Gore, Waikouaiti, Waimate, Kurow, Motukarara, Rangiora, Reefton, Blenheim, Woodville, Hawera, Stratford, Waipukurau, Wairoa, Te Teko, Te Awamutu, Dargaville and of course Avondale.

[rosie one 177]

Two simple questions:

1 - Are you in favour of closing down any existing galloping tracks in New Zealand? Yes or no.

2 - If yes, name all the tracks you think should be closed down.

Keep to the topic. You can offer reasons if you like. Be interesting to see peoples thinking on this subject.

I'll start by saying yes.

Tracks to be closed down - Winton, Wyndham, Gore, Waikouaiti, Waimate, Kurow, Motukarara, Rangiora, Reefton, Blenheim, Woodville, Hawera, Stratford, Waipukurau, Wairoa, Te Teko, Te Awamutu, Dargaville and of course Avondale.

Do you mean for racing only or as training centres as well??? Closed lock stock and barrel??

[rosemary telephone operator 1]

It feels quite strange talking to myself but I agree that the industry needs to reduce the number of tracks that they have.

Why? Every market has products that are unfortunately termed as 'dogs'. That is, they underperform relative to other competing products in the market, and to transform them would require spending a bucket load of money that could end up going down the gurgler.

NZ Racing NEEDS to delete some of their dogs, and the sooner they do it the sooner they can get on with improving their product!

[halfmanhalfbiscuit 0]

Do you mean for racing only or as training centres as well??? Closed lock stock and barrel??

Racing only.

[Pam 1]

If NZ Racing needs to delete "some of their dogs" and by that you mean tracks, I think NZ Racing needs to get rid of some of the "dead wood" running the show, and I'm not talking about the old grandstands.

There have been a few closures in the past that have done nothing to help racing. An example is Orari, they closed it down, took away the running rail, and then our main winter trial venue was no longer available.

Before any drastic action is taken all interested parties should have a say, after all it is the trainers, jockeys and breeders livelyhoods at stake, not the dead woods in Wellington.

[gaze 0]

Get rid of group organisations like TRAC, RACE, Gallop South etc, and make individual clubs sink or swim.

If a club can run a meeting and survive then it should stay.

What is more important is the need for All Weather tracks for winter racing. There is one at Matamata and there should be one in the Central Districts and Central South Island.

Consistant surfaces for winter racing is needed. Look at the size of fields that the Geelong All Weather track has compared to other tracks in Victoria.

[trakdap 390]

Two simple questions:

1 - Are you in favour of closing down any existing galloping tracks in New Zealand? Yes or no.

2 - If yes, name all the tracks you think should be closed down.

Keep to the topic. You can offer reasons if you like. Be interesting to see peoples thinking on this subject.

I'll start by saying yes.

Tracks to be closed down - Winton, Wyndham, Gore, Waikouaiti, Waimate, Kurow, Motukarara, Rangiora, Reefton, Blenheim, Woodville, Hawera, Stratford, Waipukurau, Wairoa, Te Teko, Te Awamutu, Dargaville and of course Avondale.

I am in favour of centralisation in each region. How many closed depends on the region population .

[rosenilt 0]

Where would trials&jumpouts be held?If you do away with the little clubs who regularly have trials,would the major tracks be able to handle the extra use????

[scooby3051 10,978]

That places overseas like Singapore can run two sometimes three meetings a week throughout the year at one site, yet we are saying it cant be done in NZ??? what a load off rubbish, there are 40 to 50 too many tracks and the whole industry needs to centralise to cut costs for everyone, including the people footing the bills the owners. The days of clubs running racing I feel a re long gone, it needs to be modeled on the overseas option, they do it well. Maybe have 6 to 8 tracks in NZ that can be grass or synthetic and race at different ones depending on the time of the year it is.

Tough decisions need to be made and racing needs to plan for the future..or if we keep going the way we are.. there wont be one.

Cheers

[Chris McQuaid 0]

That places overseas like Singapore can run two sometimes three meetings a week throughout the year at one site, yet we are saying it cant be done in NZ??? ...

Leigh, the difference is that Singapore is smaller than Auckland. Even though the population may be similar to New Zealand's they're all concentrated in one place, and have no need to travel (same as Hong Kong and Macau).

If Auckland had the same population as Singapore you can bet your bottom dollar that we would have gallops at least twice a week on the wonderful new all-weather track at Ellerslie!

[Chris McQuaid 0]

...What is more important is the need for All Weather tracks for winter racing. There is one at Matamata...

Since when?

[tackle 0]

I presume you are from the Waikato halfman, they don't seem to have any tracks in need of closure.

One question that needs to be asked is what tangible benefits there are to the industry of closing tracks. How has the industry benefited from Westport gallops and Nelson gallops shutting down, likewise Beaumont and Tapanui, Opaki and Levin.

I'm not saying these tracks should have been kept going but I haven't noticed any big benefit to neighbouring tracks.

[moz1047 93]

I presume you are from the Waikato halfman, they don't seem to have any tracks in need of closure.

One question that needs to be asked is what tangible benefits there are to the industry of closing tracks. How has the industry benefited from Westport gallops and Nelson gallops shutting down, likewise Beaumont and Tapanui, Opaki and Levin.

I'm not saying these tracks should have been kept going but I haven't noticed any big benefit to neighbouring tracks.

Guess you are right Tackle. Cant see how halfman can suggest closing so many tracks but none in Waikato/BOP area. When we have Cambridge, Matamata, Te Rapa, Te Awamutu, Paeroa, Te Aroha, Rotoua, Taupo, Tauranga, Te Teko & Thames all within about 1-2 hours of a central point would certainly seem overkill.

Agree some rationalisation is needed but believe that a lot of thought needs to go into it. Some things that I think need to be considered are

1. How profitable are the clubs now

2. What needs to be done to upgrade to a satisfactory level - track, premises, etc

3. How far from nearest track if closed down- a vast percentage of people involved in racing got there initial introduction to racing through smaller/country clubs rather than the metro clubs.

4. Can we afford to lose people from traditional racing areas such as Matamata, Cambridge, Hawera, Woodville, Levin, etc

5. Can the tracks left open handle extra racing.etc, etc

6. IS THERE GOING TO BE ANY BENEFIT TO THE INDUSTRY AND NEIGHBOURING TRACKS IN CLOSING THESE TRACKS DOWN

[Freda 0]

I presume you are from the Waikato halfman, they don't seem to have any tracks in need of closure.

One question that needs to be asked is what tangible benefits there are to the industry of closing tracks. How has the industry benefited from Westport gallops and Nelson gallops shutting down, likewise Beaumont and Tapanui, Opaki and Levin.

I'm not saying these tracks should have been kept going but I haven't noticed any big benefit to neighbouring tracks.

The shutting down of galloping action at Westport and Nelson has effectively disenfranchised the northern South Island from any potential galloping involvement.

I am not saying, either, that these tracks should or could have been kept going but the overall benefit to the industry would be negative.

[gaze 0]

Since when?

I thought the all weather surface in the inner at Matamata was original going to used a racing surface. If not should have been.

Racing in the winter on heavy 11's is all right for some horses but racing on a All Weather track would lead me to punt more often.

[trakdap 390]

I cannot understand why some of these clubs need so much land to run races when they do not or never will get the crowds back now that we have trackside.

Some of the land needs to be sold off to develop the rest to draw income from.

This must help in some areas where tracks are needed for trials/training etc.

[scooby3051 10,978]

Leigh, the difference is that Singapore is smaller than Auckland. Even though the population may be similar to New Zealand's they're all concentrated in one place, and have no need to travel (same as Hong Kong and Macau).

If Auckland had the same population as Singapore you can bet your bottom dollar that we would have gallops at least twice a week on the wonderful new all-weather track at Ellerslie!

But Chris you are missing the point. In reality there are three or four meetings a year in NZ that people really want to go to, and when they get big crowds. So still keep these carnival type meetings, and the result will still be the same, no one wants to go to a normal meeting anymore, so whats the diff??

If we run the races say at Aucklnad, Palmerston North or Otaki??? Maybe Wellington, and Christchurch as a start, are not these the biggest population centers to pull from?? And why cant ellerslie be one of the most raced centers, it has the most people??

[Freda 0]

Guess you are right Tackle. Cant see how halfman can suggest closing so many tracks but none in Waikato/BOP area. When we have Cambridge, Matamata, Te Rapa, Te Awamutu, Paeroa, Te Aroha, Rotoua, Taupo, Tauranga, Te Teko & Thames all within about 1-2 hours of a central point would certainly seem overkill.

Agree some rationalisation is needed but believe that a lot of thought needs to go into it. Some things that I think need to be considered are

1. How profitable are the clubs now

2. What needs to be done to upgrade to a satisfactory level - track, premises, etc

3. How far from nearest track if closed down- a vast percentage of people involved in racing got there initial introduction to racing through smaller/country clubs rather than the metro clubs.

4. Can we afford to lose people from traditional racing areas such as Matamata, Cambridge, Hawera, Woodville, Levin, etc

5. Can the tracks left open handle extra racing.etc, etc

6. IS THERE GOING TO BE ANY BENEFIT TO THE INDUSTRY AND NEIGHBOURING TRACKS IN CLOSING THESE TRACKS DOWN

All excellent and well-considered points.

Another angle not considered when halfman airily demolished a number of tracks, is the joint function of some of them.

Rangiora, Reefton, and Motukarara for example have a significant standardbred presence...much [ in some cases most ] of the infrastructure spending is borne by the harness people, not T.B's, and when one factors in local and voluntary work, the cost/drag on NZTR would be minimal if anything.

Note I am not opposed to rationalisation at all, just bear in mind that is a little more complex than just putting a pen stroke through a list.

[moz1047 93]

But Chris you are missing the point. In reality there are three or four meetings a year in NZ that people really want to go to, and when they get big crowds. So still keep these carnival type meetings, and the result will still be the same, no one wants to go to a normal meeting anymore, so whats the diff??

If we run the races say at Aucklnad, Palmerston North or Otaki??? Maybe Wellington, and Christchurch as a start, are not these the biggest population centers to pull from?? And why cant ellerslie be one of the most raced centers, it has the most people??

Isn't one of the biggest meetings in NZ for t/o and No of people attending Kumara. So what has population got to do with it

[scooby3051 10,978]

Isn't one of the biggest meetings in NZ for t/o and No of people attending Kumara. So what has population got to do with it

That is a one off situation and who is to say it would not be successful if held somewhere else and promoted properly as a carnival event, with good prize money and good horses running, that is the reason why people wont change as the status quo has always been good enough, we need to try new things, racing needs to be attractive to participate in or there will be no owners and therefore no trainers to train horses for people to be ton.

[moz1047 93]

That is a one off situation and who is to say it would not be successful if held somewhere else and promoted properly as a carnival event, with good prize money and good horses running, that is the reason why people wont change as the status quo has always been good enough, we need to try new things, racing needs to be attractive to participate in or there will be no owners and therefore no trainers to train horses for people to be ton.

Leigh. It may be a "one off situation" but has been so for many years. Don't know if you have ever been there or not but no would not work elsewhere. Part of the charm is the track & the town itself.

[scooby3051 10,978]

Leigh. It may be a "one off situation" but has been so for many years. Don't know if you have ever been there or not but no would not work elsewhere. Part of the charm is the track & the town itself.

So why should the whole of NZ racing not be changed because of a few of these one off meetings a year, we all need to move on, this is what got us to where we are,think of the good of the whole industry as a whole, not just one of self centered clubs. The industry is much bigger than one person or one club. Sure there will be casualties along the way, but it has to be that way to improve from what we have now, or are you happy with the status quo, and may i ask do you own and race horses??

[myk 4]

So why should the whole of NZ racing not be changed because of a few of these one off meetings a year, we all need to move on, this is what got us to where we are,think of the good of the whole industry as a whole, not just one of self centered clubs. The industry is much bigger than one person or one club. Sure there will be casualties along the way, but it has to be that way to improve from what we have now, or are you happy with the status quo, and may i ask do you own and race horses??

What does it have to do whether moz owns horses,I know you will say costs.As you know,Summer Haze or Silver Chalice were not owned by locals but through their success allowed the trainer to expand his business to the stage his family are at now.If people had the chance,that course would be one of the first closed down and you yourself know what passion the locals have for that club.The land is freehold,they keep their head above water with their meetings,and if they weren't succeeding,why was New Plymouth desparate to acquire such a lemon for their advantage.Within 3 years of obtaining the local dates,you guarantee they would have flogged off the land to boost their stakes.And there must be other small clubs in a much similar situation.The old saying"why fix something that aint broken".

[scooby3051 10,978]

What does it have to do whether moz owns horses,I know you will say costs.As you know,Summer Haze or Silver Chalice were not owned by locals but through their success allowed the trainer to expand his business to the stage his family are at now.If people had the chance,that course would be one of the first closed down and you yourself know what passion the locals have for that club.The land is freehold,they keep their head above water with their meetings,and if they weren't succeeding,why was New Plymouth desparate to acquire such a lemon for their advantage.Within 3 years of obtaining the local dates,you guarantee they would have flogged off the land to boost their stakes.And there must be other small clubs in a much similar situation.The old saying"why fix something that aint broken".

But that is what i mean, yes there will be some casualties but dont we all need to agree to better our whole industry not just get caught up in emotion and say this is good that is good, yes there are a lot of clubs keeping their head above water and I aint saying close them all down, but some have to go or we will never fix things.Times have changed and racing needs to change with them or it will die a long and lingering death.

I love stratford and the people you talk of have been great to me in the industry and have had alot of success for me, but I am certain that if he were up north or at a bigger center he would have a far bigger team too.

[myk 4]

But that is what i mean, yes there will be some casualties but dont we all need to agree to better our whole industry not just get caught up in emotion and say this is good that is good, yes there are a lot of clubs keeping their head above water and I aint saying close them all down, but some have to go or we will never fix things.Times have changed and racing needs to change with them or it will die a long and lingering death.

I love stratford and the people you talk of have been great to me in the industry and have had alot of success for me, but I am certain that if he were up north or at a bigger center he would have a far bigger team too.

I know and understand where you are coming from Leigh,but would this wonderful gent and his family want to pack up an go to a bigger centre,create further unemployment by laying staff off,recieve market value for property owned,and leave lifetime local friendships.This should be his choice,not being forced on him because of inability by people at the top of NZ racing not being capable of performing to expected business decisions.And no doubt there are more large numbers of similar trainers.