tackle

Always brings back memories of probably the most blatant NZ case; Midnight at Riccarton back in the 80s. I hope it was the 80s, the 70s would make me feel really old.

I have never been able to understand the focus on harness racing in the sst. Most Sunday sports papers cover sport that happened on the Saturday. That has traditionally been the case I suppose these days no one has the skill or interest to quickly put together a story on Saturday races for publication the following day. The harness stories usually seem to be pretty inane magazine type items or stories about the latest drug cheats.

Have a wee think about it cheif. The club is trying to add some extra value to some of their own lead up races, the stakes of which are probably fairly ordinary these days.

I didn't see any malice in him being named. This is an industry on the edge and he is only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. This will cause problems for southern racing as well, as he provided quite a lot of the "product" for several meetings. This whole shambles is a bloody disgrace really. Times are tough, but management and governance has been pathetic for several years now. There is absolutely no light at the end of this tunnel and how anyone with a choice would remain in the industry is hard to comprehend. How is any young trainer ever going to source sufficient funds to get started? What bank would lend money to someone to get started or expand. With stakes as terrible as they are there just has to be some form of appearance money introduced. To pinch a phrase that may have been used before, "if SI racing is strong, NZ racing is strong". The sad thing is, its not bloody rocket science to try and sort things out. Start with the South and if it works try it up North. zzz's bloody tea lady could come up with more ideas than are being tried at present.

Bit of shakey logic floating about the place here. Watch where you put your commas too. I thought you meant one and two million for a minute. What on earth the Kaikoura Cup has got to do with the Jewels is beyond me. It has never been a great race that attracted the best horses anyhow. Look at the list of winners over the years. Its just a novelty event, just like the Kumara Nuggets. Its already worth more than it should be under any logical system. The Jewels work because there are potentially a large number of horses eligible and because they come at the end of the season with no alternative races looming up. Dumping the Jewels wouldn't automatically free up any money for alternative races.

Its not just the North that has this incompetence. The last Oamaru meeting had heaps of balloted and eliminated maidens on an eight race card. The previous meeting had no maiden race at all. There seems to be this total reluctance to run 10 race cards anymore to enable horses to get starts. The whole place is a bloody shambles really. Talk about total lack of leadership and commonsense.

I'm struggling to figure out whether fordman is 2 or 102, based on the way he writes.

Surely the record payout would have been back in the 80's when things were booming and there was money for grandstands and maintaining tracks.

What sort of evidence do you have for this assertion? It is a very popular argument I know, but the logic and the cost benefit analysis behind it is pretty shaky.

Highly impressive, totally against the pattern of racing. AT was almost speechless.

Interesting questions Hesi. The usual argument is that the racing industry contributes more to the country overall than other forms of gaming. Everyone has seen the figures relating to employment within the racing industry, from club administrators, raceday staff, breeders, trainers, TAB employees etc, etc. Sure the pokies also employ people but not across so many trades. It also earns overseas funds through the sale of horses. In many small communities it provides the only sizable local venue for both indoor and outdoor events. I also like to think the large crowds turning up to Kaikoura or Kumara provide more of a community feel good factor than thousands trying to jam into the local pokie venue. The simple fact is that a significant portion of the money going through the pokies would previously have gone to the TAB. Sure, racing has no god given right to that money, but it has been more adversely affected by the pokies than rugby or the local bowling or golf club. Previously gamblers money went to sustain the racing industry, which in some ways was a logical pattern of reinvestment. These days gamblers are sustaining the local golf club and various other activities whose members in many cases probably have never used a pokie machine in their lives. Racing is also disadvantaged in that it has to pay money directly to the govt whereas the pokies can point to all the largesse they distribute around the community. There is no set requirement that racing must receive money from the pokies, which you asked about, but it has just as much right to that money as most other community activities. We need to be careful that the current debate about the obvious corruption within the pokies industry doesn't distract from the need to ensure a fairer distribution of funds. Afterall, it is the pokies that are corrupt in the first place not racing. Racing has just benefitted from the corruption. Remember previously it was the likes of Rugby and Rugby League that benefitted from the corruption. I am surprised at the suggestion from many within the industry that racing should turn its back on all pokies funding. It is just as entitled to funding as many of the other recipients. Do you think it is more reasonable for some hack rugby player to be paid $50,000 to play in the domestic rugby competion for a couple of months with a few hundred people going along to watch, than for the local racing club to have a decent Cup Day and tidy up their 1950's era facilities so they can also be used for community events?

This whole pokie machine debate is an incredibly complex one. Some on here seem to want to use it to "bash" harness racing, others almost seem, rather bizzarely, to be opposed to any form of gambling. The simple facts are: many clubs will cease to exist without pokies money; much of the money that has been received over the years has been wasted in exorbitant stakes levels and clubs will have nothing to show for it once the flow ceases; a decent portion of the money that goes into the pokies would in previous generations have gone through the TAB; Racing clubs have just as much claim on such money as professional sports bodies, even professional cultural bodies; the administration of such funds has undeniably been handled in a corrupt and often incompetent manner over the years, but racing in this respect is probably no worse than any other sports. So, at the end of the day, what needs to be done? Firstly we need to stop wasting time and effort arguing that trotting is more corrupt than galloping, and the dogs may be more corrupt than both. There also needs to be an acceptance that racing either needs fair access to such funds or else needs some form of protection from alternative forms of gaming. And there needs to be a system in place to ensure any funds Racing receives are distributed more fairly and utilised more competently. The whole system and debate currently is a mess and the way things are progessing it is hard to see much good coming out of the whole debate. I just thought I would mention this as so much effort currently seems to be going into arguing that "your lot is more corrupt than my lot".

Easy to see how you have never managed to accumulate much "dosh" Nightspell.

I can never understand that sort of logic. Why on earth would you retire a money making machine like that? Bizzare!