RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
rosie one

Whats the WINNING formula to....

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a successful Race Track/Training centre in the country area?

Are there any Rural Race Clubs that are bucking the trend and are making a dollar or two....If so what do they do to be finacially in the black?

Im looking for new fresh ideas?, that do not cost the earth to put forward.

And what are the other clubs charging for monthly track fees?

What are the trainers expectations of what a training centre should have to offer?

I want to be productive so any advice/ideas would be Great!

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I'm sure there are plenty of small clubs making a lot of dollars every year.

Their difficulty is that successive NZTR Boards have taken away (or maybe cheated, awindled, thieved, stolen, deliberately underpaid) them out of a very considerable part of the off-course betting profits these clubs racemeetings have generated.

The NZTR Boards have long been controlled by the nominees of the few big-city clubs, and it is these clubs which are given the cash taken from the rightful earnings of the smaller, mainly rural/provincial, clubs.

Statistics for 2009/10 are the most recent publicly available, and by calculating the profits the TAB collects on the various classes of betting turnovers (i.e., off-course FOB; off-course NZ racing; and overseas betting onto NZ races exported via TV to Australia and elsewhere), and then applying these profit rates to the betting turnovers generated by each individual club, it becomes possible to arrive at fairly accurate figures of the true earnings of each club.

The 2009/10 figures show more than 40 NZ thoroughbred clubs were collectively underpaid more than $4 million for that year alone.

Because all these clubs are robbed of so much of their rightful earnings, they in turn have no choice but to pay correspondingly less stakesmoney to the Owners (and to a lesser degree the Trainers) who race horses at these clubs' racemeetings - especially the so-called industry days.

And on top of that, the NZTR Boards have been sharply lifting the amounts taken from the earnings of ALL NZTR clubs and gifted as a cash contribution to Group and Listed races.

For G1 races, for example, the amount taken from all clubs' earnings ( in proportion to their off-course turnovers) has skyrocketed from $40,000 per G1 race in 2003, to $60,000, to $80,000 and currently to $200,000, with G2s, G3s and Listeds being increased in line.

If you will send me your FAX address, or Email address, I will be happy to send you some details - 7pp + 2pp, also some other info 2pp + 5pp.

My FAX is 03 2189859.

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Seem to be doing well,probably because the club/commitee appear to do everything themselves,ie;the bar,food,entertainment with the kids&there appears to be no white coat people being paid to stand outside the jockeys rooms,or birdcage/parade ring areas.I wish more clubs were like this.

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a successful Race Track/Training centre in the country area?

Are there any Rural Race Clubs that are bucking the trend and are making a dollar or two....If so what do they do to be finacially in the black?

Im looking for new fresh ideas?, that do not cost the earth to put forward.

And what are the other clubs charging for monthly track fees?

What are the trainers expectations of what a training centre should have to offer?

I want to be productive so any advice/ideas would be Great!

The racing side of your club may be a lost cause and perhaps it's time to amalgamate with another club that has industry support for it's training centre.

I suspect thats not a solution that holds much appeal to you so if thats the case then it's time to start charging the true cost of running your track.

It is irrelivent what others charge for track fees , charge what you need to survive.

Track fees are only about 5%of the cost of racing a horse

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The racing side of your club may be a lost cause and perhaps it's time to amalgamate with another club that has industry support for it's training centre.

I suspect thats not a solution that holds much appeal to you so if thats the case then it's time to start charging the true cost of running your track.

It is irrelivent what others charge for track fees , charge what you need to survive.

Track fees are only about 5%of the cost of racing a horse

Thanks for your input: on avg what are the training tracks charging per month?

Is it between 100 to 120 per mth?

I know some training centres also charge for the use of the galloping grass track per horse.

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Quote:If you will send me your FAX address, or Email address, I will be happy to send you some details - 7pp + 2pp, also some other info 2pp + 5pp.Unquote.

Just click on rosie one and go to email.

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Rosie at Levin we charge $4.60 ($4+gst) as they pass the gap shed and enter the track.It's a ticket system(27.60(6)$138(30) and trainers buy tickets in advance.If you only work your horse twice a month it only costs you 2 tickets.No extra cost if you gallop.One ticket and you can do what you like out there.We have got rid of all bad debts from trainers not paying and receive funds instantly instead of waiting until

the 20th of the next month.Rosie I presume you"re talking about Foxton.At the last meeting you had about 2 weeks ago I couldn,t believe there was 2 whitecoats in the car park directing the traffic.There had to be about 40 cars in total in the car park and after getting out I was told to restart my car and move forward about afoot.During the day there were 4 whitecoats in the bird cage doing as far as I can see absolutely nothing.What you need whitecoats on midweek days seems unbeliveable .

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Rosie at Levin we charge $4.60 ($4+gst) as they pass the gap shed and enter the track.It's a ticket system(27.60(6)$138(30) and trainers buy tickets in advance.If you only work your horse twice a month it only costs you 2 tickets.No extra cost if you gallop.One ticket and you can do what you like out there.We have got rid of all bad debts from trainers not paying and receive funds instantly instead of waiting until

the 20th of the next month.Rosie I presume you"re talking about Foxton.At the last meeting you had about 2 weeks ago I couldn,t believe there was 2 whitecoats in the car park directing the traffic.There had to be about 40 cars in total in the car park and after getting out I was told to restart my car and move forward about afoot.During the day there were 4 whitecoats in the bird cage doing as far as I can see absolutely nothing.What you need whitecoats on midweek days seems unbeliveable .

Yes!!! I would have to agree with you Paul regarding the Whitecoats.....what a joke anybody and everybody were allowed to go in and out of the bird cage area, even my friends to my surprise were in the birdcage owner trainers area, not one whitecoat asked for any passes or lins in the so called restricted areas. So what were they doing all day?

I could just imagined how some of the trainers down at track would react to the ticket system, its good it works for you Paul, but somehow I dont think it would work at a busy training centre.

Maybe the money for the whitecoats should be allocated to someone to chase the slow payers of track fees! :D

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Isn't it true that NZTR supplys 100% of the prize money.

The clubs don't have to supply any prize money, it's given to them.

NZTR supplies only a MINIMUM level of prize money.

The vital issue though is that for the large majority of clubs the amount NZTR supplies each year is a whole lot LESS than the amounts the clubs have actually earned each year.

The most ill-treated club in 2009/10 was paid some $307,000 LESS than it had earned through the betting volumes it had generated.

More than 40 clubs were collectively short-paid some $4.4 millions that year - mostly on their 'industry' racedays.

Each racing club pays out most of its income as prize money to the Owners who race their horses at club racemeetings. So it is the Owners who race at 'industry' meetings who are cheated/swindled out of the $4.4 millions worth of net profits which their horses have have attracted from wagerers.

In my opinion this regular under-payment practice is identical to theft as defined in the NZ Crimes Act and in the Concise Oxford Dictionary. Plenty of others, including a senior barrister friend, agree.

Racing and Golf

There are several similarities, and differences- one major - between racing clubs and golf clubs in NZ:-

Similarities:

* both are recognised sporting activities

* both were set up long ago by community enthusiast volunteers to bring the respective sports to, and for the benefit of, their own communities

*each utilises a sizeable area of land and has one of more buildings for participants' use

*all are organised as clubs and each is registered under the law as an Incorporated Society (except for a very small number of golf courses privately owned, e.g. Sir Michael Hill's golfcourse at Arrowtown)

* every club is an individual sovereign entity, and each is subject to the laws of the land including taxation laws and the Incorporated Societies Act 1908

* the members and officeholders of each have their own rights, duties, and obligations

*each club is registered with its respective regulating body - NZTR inc, HRNZ Inc, or NZGRA Inc for the racing codes, and the New Zealand Golf Association Inc for all the public golf clubs

*in a 2008 Judgement the NZ Court of Appeal stated that the Committee/Officers of Incorporated Societies are obliged to treat all applications for membership fairly. It would seem to follow logically that applicants, on becoming members, should continue to enjoy the benefits of being treated fairly. The officers of NZTR Inc appear to have thumbed their noses at the Court of Appeal by treating the majority of their member clubs very unfairly to the tune of some $4.4 millions in the 2009/10 racing year alone.

Perhaps they decided to resign en masse earlier in 2011 before someone brought prosecution proceedings against them?

Differences

* every golf club pays an affiliation fee to its regulating body, otherwise it keeps all its own earnings entirely for its own use as its own elected committee sees fit

* a majority of thoroughbred racing clubs suffer a very important part of their off-course betting earnings being taken away by their own regulatory body, and given to a very small number of fellow member clubs which already enjoy various other financial benefits

* there are currently 67 thoroughbred clubs, using 51 different venues. There are currently at least 400 golf clubs using at least 400 different venues

* the officials who have been in charge of the affairs of the thoroughbred code are wondering why the people are showing a reluctance to participate and invest. To the best of my knowledge the golfing fraternity does not have that problem.

Further Comment

In New Zealand every practising lawyer is required to be a member of the New Zealand Law Society Inc.

Imagine the screams of outrage if the Law Society decided to require lawyers in smaller centres to hand over up to 60 percent of their business incomes to NZLS so that it could gift that money to the biggest law firms in Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch, plus in a few other cities.

Similarly with accountants and the NZ Society of Accountants, engineers, doctors, surveyers and many other who go about their business as a member of a regulatory body.

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NZTR supplies only a MINIMUM level of prize money.

The vital issue though is that for the large majority of clubs the amount NZTR supplies each year is a whole lot LESS than the amounts the clubs have actually earned each year.

The most ill-treated club in 2009/10 was paid some $307,000 LESS than it had earned through the betting volumes it had generated.

More than 40 clubs were collectively short-paid some $4.4 millions that year - mostly on their 'industry' racedays.

Each racing club pays out most of its income as prize money to the Owners who race their horses at club racemeetings. So it is the Owners who race at 'industry' meetings who are cheated/swindled out of the $4.4 millions worth of net profits which their horses have have attracted from wagerers.

In my opinion this regular under-payment practice is identical to theft as defined in the NZ Crimes Act and in the Concise Oxford Dictionary. Plenty of others, including a senior barrister friend, agree.

Racing and Golf

There are several similarities, and differences- one major - between racing clubs and golf clubs in NZ:-

Similarities:

* both are recognised sporting activities

* both were set up long ago by community enthusiast volunteers to bring the respective sports to, and for the benefit of, their own communities

*each utilises a sizeable area of land and has one of more buildings for participants' use

*all are organised as clubs and each is registered under the law as an Incorporated Society (except for a very small number of golf courses privately owned, e.g. Sir Michael Hill's golfcourse at Arrowtown)

* every club is an individual sovereign entity, and each is subject to the laws of the land including taxation laws and the Incorporated Societies Act 1908

* the members and officeholders of each have their own rights, duties, and obligations

*each club is registered with its respective regulating body - NZTR inc, HRNZ Inc, or NZGRA Inc for the racing codes, and the New Zealand Golf Association Inc for all the public golf clubs

*in a 2008 Judgement the NZ Court of Appeal stated that the Committee/Officers of Incorporated Societies are obliged to treat all applications for membership fairly. It would seem to follow logically that applicants, on becoming members, should continue to enjoy the benefits of being treated fairly. The officers of NZTR Inc appear to have thumbed their noses at the Court of Appeal by treating the majority of their member clubs very unfairly to the tune of some $4.4 millions in the 2009/10 racing year alone.

Perhaps they decided to resign en masse earlier in 2011 before someone brought prosecution proceedings against them?

Differences

* every golf club pays an affiliation fee to its regulating body, otherwise it keeps all its own earnings entirely for its own use as its own elected committee sees fit

* a majority of thoroughbred racing clubs suffer a very important part of their off-course betting earnings being taken away by their own regulatory body, and given to a very small number of fellow member clubs which already enjoy various other financial benefits

* there are currently 67 thoroughbred clubs, using 51 different venues. There are currently at least 400 golf clubs using at least 400 different venues

* the officials who have been in charge of the affairs of the thoroughbred code are wondering why the people are showing a reluctance to participate and invest. To the best of my knowledge the golfing fraternity does not have that problem.

Further Comment

In New Zealand every practising lawyer is required to be a member of the New Zealand Law Society Inc.

Imagine the screams of outrage if the Law Society decided to require lawyers in smaller centres to hand over up to 60 percent of their business incomes to NZLS so that it could gift that money to the biggest law firms in Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch, plus in a few other cities.

Similarly with accountants and the NZ Society of Accountants, engineers, doctors, surveyers and many other who go about their business as a member of a regulatory body.

Your assessment may be correct but this situation isn't about to change in the near future so its no help to rosie.

As for the golf comparison I suspect that many golf clubs green fees are far more than track fees.

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Seem to be doing well,probably because the club/commitee appear to do everything themselves,ie]

Waverley is definitely among the short-paid clubs referred to in my other posts.

This club, and its raceday Owners, were underpaid a little over $80,000 for 2009/10. This club has been underpaid at least $20,000 per raceday since 1997/98 when the A, B, C, D venue classification and associated funding changes were introduced.

I believe it is fair to conclude that most of the money taken off Waverley has been given to Wellington Racing Club.

Ten years ago, in 1999-2000 Wellington RC generated $26.559 million of off-course betting. Waverley generated $1.865 million.

For 2009-2010 Wellington's had dropped to $20.333m, while Waverley had risen to $2.495m.

Despite Waverley's much better performance it is listed as "Not Required" in a venue review prepared for NZTR Inc in 2009 (I think).

Eight North Island venues are shown as "Not Required", these being Dargaville, Paeroa, Te Teko(Whakatane), Waipukurau, Wairoa, Hawera, Waverley and Woodville.

For the 2009-2010 year those 8 venues had a total of $770,500 taken from their earnings and given to other clubs.

These 8 venues together ran 23 racedays that season - nearly all being 'industry' days.

If these 8 venues were forcibly closed down, we are left to wonder which other venues would want to take those 23 days on? I think we can safely say Ellerslie and Trentham would not, Manawatu would not because it has already complained to NZTR about the impossibility of breaking even on such days, and Taranaki TR expressed similar views in its local newspaper last year.

Killing the geese which lay the golden eggs?

Eight South Island venues are also on the "Not Required" list - Ashburton, Waimate, Reefton, Hokitika, Omakau, Waikouaiti, Gore and Wyndham.

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NZTR supplies only a MINIMUM level of prize money.

The vital issue though is that for the large majority of clubs the amount NZTR supplies each year is a whole lot LESS than the amounts the clubs have actually earned each year.

The most ill-treated club in 2009/10 was paid some $307,000 LESS than it had earned through the betting volumes it had generated.

More than 40 clubs were collectively short-paid some $4.4 millions that year - mostly on their 'industry' racedays.

Each racing club pays out most of its income as prize money to the Owners who race their horses at club racemeetings. So it is the Owners who race at 'industry' meetings who are cheated/swindled out of the $4.4 millions worth of net profits which their horses have have attracted from wagerers.

In my opinion this regular under-payment practice is identical to theft as defined in the NZ Crimes Act and in the Concise Oxford Dictionary. Plenty of others, including a senior barrister friend, agree.

Racing and Golf

There are several similarities, and differences- one major - between racing clubs and golf clubs in NZ:-

Similarities:

* both are recognised sporting activities

* both were set up long ago by community enthusiast volunteers to bring the respective sports to, and for the benefit of, their own communities

*each utilises a sizeable area of land and has one of more buildings for participants' use

*all are organised as clubs and each is registered under the law as an Incorporated Society (except for a very small number of golf courses privately owned, e.g. Sir Michael Hill's golfcourse at Arrowtown)

* every club is an individual sovereign entity, and each is subject to the laws of the land including taxation laws and the Incorporated Societies Act 1908

* the members and officeholders of each have their own rights, duties, and obligations

*each club is registered with its respective regulating body - NZTR inc, HRNZ Inc, or NZGRA Inc for the racing codes, and the New Zealand Golf Association Inc for all the public golf clubs

*in a 2008 Judgement the NZ Court of Appeal stated that the Committee/Officers of Incorporated Societies are obliged to treat all applications for membership fairly. It would seem to follow logically that applicants, on becoming members, should continue to enjoy the benefits of being treated fairly. The officers of NZTR Inc appear to have thumbed their noses at the Court of Appeal by treating the majority of their member clubs very unfairly to the tune of some $4.4 millions in the 2009/10 racing year alone.

Perhaps they decided to resign en masse earlier in 2011 before someone brought prosecution proceedings against them?

Differences

* every golf club pays an affiliation fee to its regulating body, otherwise it keeps all its own earnings entirely for its own use as its own elected committee sees fit

* a majority of thoroughbred racing clubs suffer a very important part of their off-course betting earnings being taken away by their own regulatory body, and given to a very small number of fellow member clubs which already enjoy various other financial benefits

* there are currently 67 thoroughbred clubs, using 51 different venues. There are currently at least 400 golf clubs using at least 400 different venues

* the officials who have been in charge of the affairs of the thoroughbred code are wondering why the people are showing a reluctance to participate and invest. To the best of my knowledge the golfing fraternity does not have that problem.

Further Comment

In New Zealand every practising lawyer is required to be a member of the New Zealand Law Society Inc.

Imagine the screams of outrage if the Law Society decided to require lawyers in smaller centres to hand over up to 60 percent of their business incomes to NZLS so that it could gift that money to the biggest law firms in Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch, plus in a few other cities.

Similarly with accountants and the NZ Society of Accountants, engineers, doctors, surveyers and many other who go about their business as a member of a regulatory body.

You would be on to something if we were not a regulated industry controlled by a governance structure that panders more to what is good for the tax gatherers as a whole rather than what is necessarily good for stakeholders.

That said and assuming you don't convince government ot deregulate us, how would you spread the total funds across the clubs to ensure we still have upper level black-type racing and premier racing which is significant enough to encourage horse ownership?

If you homogise the stakes differential any more than the already insignificant levels, how will you achieve ownership participation greater than the reducing level we face already?

Contrary to what you think, most owners probably don't give a toss about club politics, they just want to see whatever club is running the main Sat meeting put up stakes that gives them a chance of getting ahead.

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Are there many horses trained at Waverly? If so how many do you think there is?

I don`t know, but give Bill Thurlow a ring,I think he is the president,he might even tell you about the new sand track.

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