NZ Cup Talk

[JJ Flash 2,135]

Its getting to that time of the year when attention begins to focus on who will run in the Cup  and whether any Ozzies will turn up. Clearly one set of connections are making plans 

Self Assured is a 2.20 fav with TABNZ. How anyone could take that this far out is beyond me but then that's what makes a market

Lochinvar Art set to tackle NZ Cup

8 August 2022 , News

AUSTRALIA’S most decorated pacer Lochinvar Art is being set for a New Zealand Cup raid.

The former Hunter and Victoria Cup hero is nearing a racetrack return and will trial again at Shepparton on Thursday night.

If he pleases caretaker trainer Rodney Lakey on Thursday, Lochinvar Art will go to the races for the first time since the Hunter Cup earlier this year.
Regular trainer-driver David Moran is due back from suspension on September 15 to take charge of Lochinvar Art again.

The Group 1 Victoria Cup is the first main target at Melton on October 8, but connections are very keen on crossing the ditch in between that race and the start of the Victorian Inter Dominion on November 26.

“It fits well,” Lakey said. “We’ll be able to get some racing into him before the Victoria Cup and then, if he’s where we hope, he could head across to NZ and have a couple of weeks after the Cup there before the start of the Inter Dominion.”

Connections are keen to do more than a hit-and-run raid on Addington for the Cup on November 8.

“Everyone says if you go, you’re better having a lead-up race over there,” Lakey said. “We’d look at something like the Ashburton race a couple of weeks before the Cup.

“The first thing is to get him back racing here, which should be in the next few weeks, and then we can start to lock in some plans.”

Lochinvar Art won his first trial back at Shepparton a couple of weeks ago, but he will be a lot fitter and sharper this week.

“He blew-up a lot after that,” Lakey said. “It showed he wasn’t quite as fit as we thought he was. He’s ready to get a lot more serious this week.

“No doubt this trial will bring him on even more.

“If he trials well and comes through it well, then we’ll look for a race.

“If not, we’ll probably back him up a week later for another trial before he goes back to the races.

“We’ve got time on our side to wait and see and still get a few runs into him before the Victoria Cup.”

[Idolmite 2,560]

That's good news. The race really needs two or three good Aussie horses in it to really generate some interest. Stocks of really good pacers are low on both sides of the Tasman right now, especially in FFA races like the NZ Cup, so we both need each other right now to build up the quality of our fields in the top races. Hopefully Majestic Cruiser returns, a very exciting horse, especially over the longer distances, and maybe one other. Who would people like to see venture to our shores?

[Iraklis 2,231]

Hey Idol mate, MajesticCruiser, SpiritOfStLouis, TripleEight, AltaOrlando, Cranbourne.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

[Idolmite 2,560]

1 hour ago, Iraklis said:

Hey Idol mate, MajesticCruiser, SpiritOfStLouis, TripleEight, AltaOrlando, Cranbourne.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

Nearly all ex Kiwis. Where are all of the Gammalites, Popular Alms and/or Blacks a Fakes?

In saying that, it's fantastic to see good numbers interested at this early stage, and hopefully at least two or three of them are up for the trip come November. Natural attrition and a lack of form between now and then will take some of them out obviously - it's a big and expensive trip to make if you know your horse likely isn't going good enough - but after Covid it's great just to see horses from across the pond back on the entry list. 

I don't see three of those you've listed on the TAB Futures list. Where did you get Spirit of St Louis, Triple Eight and Alta Orlando from?

[Pure Steel 1,302]

1 hour ago, Iraklis said:

Hey Idol mate, MajesticCruiser, SpiritOfStLouis, TripleEight, AltaOrlando, Cranbourne.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

Think Cranbourne still there Rakman, hasn't crossed to the bright side as yet . and had a crack in the Cup last year unsuccessfully.

ALTA ORLANDO and SPIRIT of ST LOUIS have Nz owners so would be amazing for them to turn up.

An outstanding Pacer in the wild west MINSTREL (nz bred) has some kiwi owners too and a great record of 16 wins from 32 in WA for the Bond camp.

MINSTREL won the Group 1 Fremantle Cup in the summer and would give a great NZ CUP shake-up if he turned up !!

 

[Iraklis 2,231]

Idol mate, I couldn't giv a rats what the TAB have listed on their futures list, I just like them  and so what if they're nearly all ex Kiwi's.....

Pure mate, sorry thought he (Cranbourne) had gone to oz, oops my bad LOL quite like that Colt Thirty One and MachDaVinci

 

Cheers Iraklis

[Idolmite 2,560]

2 hours ago, Iraklis said:

Idol mate, I couldn't giv a rats what the TAB have listed on their futures list, I just like them  and so what if they're nearly all ex Kiwi's.....

Pure mate, sorry thought he (Cranbourne) had gone to oz, oops my bad LOL quite like that Colt Thirty One and MachDaVinci

 

Cheers Iraklis

So it's the Iraklis entry list? Not the official entry list?

In that case; Popular Alm, Delightful Lady, Hands Down, Armalight, Gammalite, Lord Module, Bonnies Chance, Blacks A Fake, Smoken Up, Young Quinn, Cardigan Bay, Preux Chevalier, Village Kid, Our Sir Vancealot, Lazarus and I'mthemightyquinn. Now THERE is a 16 horse field 

[Pure Steel 1,302]

36 minutes ago, Idolmite said:

So it's the Iraklis entry list? Not the official entry list?

In that case; Popular Alm, Delightful Lady, Hands Down, Armalight, Gammalite, Lord Module, Bonnies Chance, Blacks A Fake, Smoken Up, Young Quinn, Cardigan Bay, Preux Chevalier, Village Kid, Our Sir Vancealot, Lazarus and I'mthemightyquinn. Now THERE is a 16 horse field 

Now that's a good field !!!  are we gunna pick the First 4 ? 

You have some that didn't start in a NZ Cup? , such as Poppy and Blackie and Quinnie (the mighty variety)  and Vancie.   maybe slot in STEEL JAW and LIGHTNING BLUE instead for a Good Aussie Win !!!  ??? you betcha ....

[Iraklis 2,231]

No! it's not the Iraklis entry list! Idolmite, did you at the end of your post not ask 'Who would people like to see venture to our shores?' nothin about any kind of entry list, official or otherwise; and I answered with who I would like to see venture to our shores, and I might add they are all quite able to cross the ditch and enter our races anytime.....however, on the other hand your 'list' appears to be compiled from the fantastical realms of your mind, and none likely to be crossin the ditch anytime soon.....

Ahh Pure mate, sorry to burst yuh bubble LightninBlue ex Kiwibred, SteelJaw gave yuh a bloody great ozzie win....

 

Cheers Iraklis

[Idolmite 2,560]

14 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

No! it's not the Iraklis entry list! Idolmite, did you at the end of your post not ask 'Who would people like to see venture to our shores?' nothin about any kind of entry list, official or otherwise; and I answered with who I would like to see venture to our shores, and I might add they are all quite able to cross the ditch and enter our races anytime.....however, on the other hand your 'list' appears to be compiled from the fantastical realms of your mind, and none likely to be crossin the ditch anytime soon.....

Ahh Pure mate, sorry to burst yuh bubble LightninBlue ex Kiwibred, SteelJaw gave yuh a bloody great ozzie win....

 

Cheers Iraklis

My mistake. I make a few hahaha

For some (arguably unknown) reason I thought you were listing who had entered or expressed interest from across the ditch to date. 

[Idolmite 2,560]

1 hour ago, Pure Steel said:

Now that's a good field !!!  are we gunna pick the First 4 ? 

You have some that didn't start in a NZ Cup? , such as Poppy and Blackie and Quinnie (the mighty variety)  and Vancie.   maybe slot in STEEL JAW and LIGHTNING BLUE instead for a Good Aussie Win !!!  ??? you betcha ....

Yes, I gave no thought to whether they had started in an NZ Cup or not. It's probably more Interdominion form than anything else for many of them, with the odd favourite like Delighful Lady (being an Aucklander) that makes any such list. 

As for the First 4, Lord Module would probably be first or last (still standing at the tapes being a grump), Blacks A Fake would have to be a top 2 chance with 4 x 1sts and 2 x 2nds in Interdominion Finals, but really, any of the 16 could run Top 4 on their day, no? Wouldn't the barrier draw be of interest 

[Pure Steel 1,302]

1 hour ago, Idolmite said:

Yes, I gave no thought to whether they had started in an NZ Cup or not. It's probably more Interdominion form than anything else for many of them, with the odd favourite like Delighful Lady (being an Aucklander) that makes any such list. 

As for the First 4, Lord Module would probably be first or last (still standing at the tapes being a grump), Blacks A Fake would have to be a top 2 chance with 4 x 1sts and 2 x 2nds in Interdominion Finals, but really, any of the 16 could run Top 4 on their day, no? Wouldn't the barrier draw be of interest 

Aaahhh yes indeed. 9 of your 16 horses Won the Interdominion Grand Final. excellent stuff.  Blackie and Im ThemightyQuinn winning several of them.

NZ Cup a different kettle of fish over the 2 mile stand. LAZARUS with 2 Nz Cup wins, and a Much Faster time (only one on your list to break 4 minute barrier), and the only one from the last 10 years of your 16 horses to race in the Cup, so would win by  50-70m IMO from the rest of them (running a time of 3.53 to 3.55 in his wins).  .... Give him whatever barrier or handicap and Laz would still win. no worries at all.

As will Self Assured this year. with no handicap.

[Idolmite 2,560]

1 hour ago, Pure Steel said:

Aaahhh yes indeed. 9 of your 16 horses Won the Interdominion Grand Final. excellent stuff.  Blackie and Im ThemightyQuinn winning several of them.

NZ Cup a different kettle of fish over the 2 mile stand. LAZARUS with 2 Nz Cup wins, and a Much Faster time (only one on your list to break 4 minute barrier), and the only one from the last 10 years of your 16 horses to race in the Cup, so would win by  50-70m IMO from the rest of them (running a time of 3.53 to 3.55 in his wins).  .... Give him whatever barrier or handicap and Laz would still win. no worries at all.

As will Self Assured this year. with no handicap.

That's based on comparing the horses trained decades ago with decades old methods and likely substandard feed when compared to today as well. Not to mention inferior/slower tracks, more stressful travel etc etc etc. My theory is that several of the horses from decades ago, trained today, would be more than capable of beating the Mighty Laz, as good as he was. I also wasn't really trying to pick the best ever field for a 2 mile stand at Addington, but what in my opinion would just be the best ever field of harness horses that could be accumulated from those I've seen race - some only on TV admittedly - from in my lifetime. Some may not be standing start or a 2 mile specialist, but in my dream they'd all start just fine - except probably Lord Module - and would all see out the distance. Some of my selections also made the list via there sometime exciting and explosive racing styles too. Many of today's champions, for whatever reason, just don't provide the excitement past hero's used to do. Self Assured is no excitement machine. A machine, yes, but generally very boring to watch, as he just takes command and wins. Even Lazarus was similar, but when racing in Oz or the US, that didn't matter, whatever it took, but for me the horses and the races of old - some of that may have been the atmosphere too - were far more exciting that what is generally served up today. I used to be on course often at Alexandra Park. Now I don't even watch most meetings on TV.  That maybe me in part to of course, but the sport just does not excite me as it once did. Small fields, small divvies, follow the leader racing. I must admit I'm still not 100% convinced about passing lanes. Yes, it gives more horses a chance, but so often you know the result before the field even hits the home straight. It was always frustrating when your horse was in the trail, and didn't get out, but now you KNOW he's going to get out 500 metre from home. The tension has gone. Maybe it just takes more to excite me now I'm an old man 

[Idolmite 2,560]

And in my dream scenario, since organisers know a few of the Aussies won't make it, they announce 20 emergency runners, all from New Zealand. In alphabetical order they are; Adore Me, Blossom Lady, Changeover, Chokin, Christian Cullen, Christen Me, Elsu, Il Vicolo,  Iraklis, Locarno, Luxury Liner, Mainland Banner, Master Musician, Monkey King, Roydon Glen, Roydon Scott, Self Assured, Stunin Cullen, Terror to Love and Ultimate Sniper. 

Anyway, back to reality, and 2022.......

[Pure Steel 1,302]

8 hours ago, Idolmite said:

And in my dream scenario, since organisers know a few of the Aussies won't make it, they announce 20 emergency runners, all from New Zealand. In alphabetical order they are; Adore Me, Blossom Lady, Changeover, Chokin, Christian Cullen, Christen Me, Elsu, Il Vicolo,  Iraklis, Locarno, Luxury Liner, Mainland Banner, Master Musician, Monkey King, Roydon Glen, Roydon Scott, Self Assured, Stunin Cullen, Terror to Love and Ultimate Sniper. 

Anyway, back to reality, and 2022.......

Don't worry , you have got the reality of 2022 covered in your awesome list of Nz Cup emergencies there. SELF ASSURED has it in the bag. (although I did say that last year too ! lol )

excuse my Fine tinkering with your list lol, would see Locarno (a fine sprinter) replaced with his fine staying Stable-mate CAMELOT for Robin Butt. Royden Scott bombed out , so maybe TRUSTY SCOT is a likely cover, and your Elsu only placed 2nd twice in the Cup to JUST AN EXCUSE both times, so better chuck him in too.

What a great field of Emergencies !!! makes last years actual Cup field look very ordinary indeed. (except the quinella duo) 

[Idolmite 2,560]

41 minutes ago, Pure Steel said:

Don't worry , you have got the reality of 2022 covered in your awesome list of Nz Cup emergencies there. SELF ASSURED has it in the bag. (although I did say that last year too ! lol )

excuse my Fine tinkering with your list lol, would see Locarno (a fine sprinter) replaced with his fine staying Stable-mate CAMELOT for Robin Butt. Royden Scott bombed out , so maybe TRUSTY SCOT is a likely cover, and your Elsu only placed 2nd twice in the Cup to JUST AN EXCUSE both times, so better chuck him in too.

What a great field of Emergencies !!! makes last years actual Cup field look very ordinary indeed. (except the quinella duo) 

Poor old Roydon Scott, never able to fulfil his potential. He was a horse that really captured my attention, hence my including him on my list. And as you say, Locarno was an exceptional sprinter with an exceptional sprint. I feel he deserves his place in any cup field despite not being able to replicate that sprint over the longer distances. Won a Miracle Mile from last, and almost stole an Interdom Final, only getting snubbed short of the line. Beat some very good horses home that night too. 

[JJ Flash 2,135]

14 hours ago, Pure Steel said:

As will Self Assured this year. with no handicap.

If he runs and is in good health?

[Pure Steel 1,302]

13 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

If he runs and is in good health?

Hope nothing is a-miss with him JJ ?  Was a supreme Auckland Cup win at his last start when Natalie drove at the end of May over the 2 mile stand.

I'm very Lucky I got to see i him go once in Queensland as a 3 year old ( He won all 4 starts including the Group 1 QLD Derby )   Easily beating a local Oz horse being touted as the 'best' Aussie chance in no other than LOCHINVAR ART !!!. Self Assured beat him twice too. now 3 years later is sure to beat him up again  IMHO.

 

[JJ Flash 2,135]

4 minutes ago, Pure Steel said:

Hope nothing is a-miss with him JJ ?  Was a supreme Auckland Cup win at his last start when Natalie drove at the end of May over the 2 mile stand.

I'm very Lucky I got to see i him go once in Queensland as a 3 year old ( He won all 4 starts including the Group 1 QLD Derby )   Easily beating a local Oz horse being touted as the 'best' Aussie chance in no other than LOCHINVAR ART !!!. Self Assured beat him twice too. now 3 years later is sure to beat him up again  IMHO.

 

I'm sure if anything was amiss we would all know as he is with the most professional stable in Australasia.

You can get 2.20 here . Best you get on but too me its too far out to be labelling anything as far as Cup week goes. Oops it has now been changed to Bloom week thanks to City councils woke marketers

[Mikie 326]

2 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

I'm sure if anything was amiss we would all know as he is with the most professional stable in Australasia.

You can get 2.20 here . Best you get on but too me its too far out to be labelling anything as far as Cup week goes. Oops it has now been changed to Bloom week thanks to City councils woke marketers

Looking ar Race 2 at Riccarton on Saturday's name JJF, it appears there's someone left with balls

CUP WEEK TICKETS ON SALE 1 SEPTEMBER

[JJ Flash 2,135]

14 hours ago, Mikie said:

Looking ar Race 2 at Riccarton on Saturday's name JJF, it appears there's someone left with balls

CUP WEEK TICKETS ON SALE 1 SEPTEMBER

The Tim,Jim and Chris team must have had a combined  senior moment or are simply not up with the blooming program

[Mikie 326]

4 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

The Tim,Jim and Chris team must have had a combined  senior moment or are simply not up with the blooming program

"Bloom Week Tickets On Sale" doesn't have the same ring to it really

[JJ Flash 2,135]

32 minutes ago, Mikie said:

"Bloom Week Tickets On Sale" doesn't have the same ring to it really

Correct but after doing a bit of research i found that the "Bloom Festival"  which is to replace Cup week is the idea of Christchurch NZ. In Todays socialist local rag- The Press , is a great story about what a shambles Christchurch NZ is in re Culture ,Staff turnover etc. 

Given their success at anything as the Economic development agency for Christchurch why should anyone bother to give their ideas any consideration at all. I certainly don't.

[Iraklis 2,231]

I agree Mikie, what the hell is Bloom week? NZ Cup week, now that sounds much better has a nice ring to it, and it looks aesthetically pleasin  much like the awesome horseflesh that will be on show.....hey ChCh maybe in a shambles don't mean our Cup is, yet  says I with a certain amount of trepidation.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

[Mikie 326]

32 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

I agree Mikie, what the hell is Bloom week? NZ Cup week, now that sounds much better has a nice ring to it, and it looks aesthetically pleasin  much like the awesome horseflesh that will be on show.....hey ChCh maybe in a shambles don't mean our Cup is, yet  says I with a certain amount of trepidation.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

They can call it whatever they like Iraklis but they are deluding themselves

Everyone I know still is saying "are you going to Cup Week?"