poundforpound 745 Report post Posted April 23, 2022 Well wasn’t that a shambles …starting ten minutes over time …three late scratchings Ludwig and Baz (NZ) 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis3 1,263 Report post Posted April 23, 2022 Race two Pukekohe dead heat. No pic of the finish for punters on Trackside. Then host said it must have been very close haaaa Now there is a protest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 150 Report post Posted April 23, 2022 Not a good look . What's the solution to prevent that happening again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
poundforpound 745 Report post Posted April 23, 2022 57 minutes ago, Ludwig said: Not a good look . What's the solution to prevent that happening again? Seems a bit unfair to single any one out….babies kept waiting too long then feeding off each other’s anxiety…..however the bloke behind the gates swishing the rod / stick is putting himself at risk given the unfortunate recent treatment of Sir Mark Todd Insider 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
napier 339 Report post Posted April 23, 2022 To be honest nothing wrong with a flick behind the fetlocks with the old buggy stick....works on the majority of horses and often requested by the trainers that if you do this it will walk straight in. I would be more concerned about the number of uneducated horses turning up on race day and others being made the scapegoat....that being the starter or their assistants or jockey etc...how many horses sold on Gavelhouse or the likes are barrier rouges or unsound ?......Was an unusually big field of 2yr olds down south today but if you spend 30 seconds or more for example getting one problem horse in then the next problem one needs the same amount of time to be fair. The industry is in trouble when it comes to educating young horses.....JMO Pam Robson 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idolmite 2,562 Report post Posted April 23, 2022 7 hours ago, poundforpound said: Well wasn’t that a shambles …starting ten minutes over time …three late scratchings Didn't it end up at 4 late scratchings? The final one to be led up didn't go in either, after they'd already announce three. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted April 23, 2022 Oh come on....that was one of the most appalling displays of barrier handling that I've ever seen in my life. That group of people (can't use the word men) need educating by the establishment. I'd be really ripping into them for not understanding what to do but recently I did the same for a particular TV presenter and had the PC brigade admonish me for making my comments personal, despite being totally accurate. I did the barriers for two years while I was at Uni. Two days a week where I got paid $80 per day. Did them with a mate called Rob Corver. We didn't miss getting one horse in in two years. Trainers used to come to us to discuss problematic ones and you always used to brace yourselves with the two year olds from the bush. Confidence is everything. Where were the people linking hands either side of the horse, leaning into their bodies to give them support and steering them? If they then backed up, double down with another two blokes (I'm not PC...you need to be physical and strong) so that four of you are shoving the thing in. Works every time. The shoves simply need to be at the same time with the same energy and with no hesitancy. Come on you blokes in Wellington, and at Riccarton. This is what the laughing stock is fuelled on around the World. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurnipOrange 149 Report post Posted April 23, 2022 And the first trials they cancel is the 2yo heats so the older open horses get to run, Because trainers cant get them fit on there 25 million dollar track! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
poundforpound 745 Report post Posted April 24, 2022 1 hour ago, TurnipOrange said: And the first trials they cancel is the 2yo heats so the older open horses get to run, Because trainers cant get them fit on there 25 million dollar track! Very good point Bobbit I didn’t want to point the finger ( Berri Fruit did it for me though !! ) but yes, there’s clearly a horse education related issue here I suspect we’re spending our industry money in the wrong places, 14 million on the RIB now, flash new offices for them, people are telling me the industry is funding equipment purchases for the privately owned racing laboratory … but the basics are being neglected and we’re all paying a high price Yesterdays fiasco was a symptom, the cause is arguably a scarcity of competent professionals running the actual day to day racing component of the industry Baz (NZ) and dock leaf 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,090 Report post Posted April 24, 2022 Back in the day when I was starting horses down south, they all walked in the gates and stood there and were shut in and walked out before they went home. That was in a 4-8 week process or however long it took. Not my job to teach them to jump out, that was for the trainer or pre-trainer to do. That was a one man operation. No one required behind them with a buggy whip or anything. Basic education. Sometimes walked through the gates on day 1 or 2 of being ridden. It's not rocket science. That debacle showing uneducated horses getting to the races needs addressing. Dopey, elbow and Pam Robson 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobeit 99 Report post Posted April 24, 2022 They shouldn't be going to trials or races until they are happy to be loaded & to stand in the stalls. The outfit where the majority of the horses I have owned a share in taught them from day one on driving reins to walk through the barriers, then to stand in them for a period of time (a longer period each day). We had three open wooden barriers near the trotting track that were used to educate horses. They repeated this process once they graduated to being ridden. Once they were bullet proof doing this, they went to the real stalls learning to stand in them, to walk out, then jump when the gates opened. They were also taught to stand still when there was lots of yelling & banging & crashing around them. In a couple of decades, I only remember one horse from this stable being reluctant to load at the races on a regular basis (but always did so quite quickly & was never dirty about it) & one occasion when a feisty little mare refused to go in at the first time of asking (just digging her toes in & having a pig root). She then loaded willingly & won the Group 1 race The starter & barrier attendants were always happy to see horses from this fairly large stable at the jumpouts, trials or races as they could be loaded in any order & behaved well. Educate horses properly & you'll rarely have problems on raceday. TurnipOrange, Pam Robson, napier and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 214 Report post Posted April 24, 2022 7 hours ago, Berri said: Oh come on....that was one of the most appalling displays of barrier handling that I've ever seen in my life… Agree. I’ve ‘worked’ behind and in the gates in a time where stable connections were allowed to do so at Riccarton… it looked like there was a lack of decision making and some horses given too much time, creating issues with those loaded and waiting… need more confidence and timely decision making. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edor 67 Report post Posted April 24, 2022 thats a bit rough on the boys when did you last see a fifteen horse 2 year old race in nz tell me and the boys you are rubbishing amazing they tried very hard elbow and Huey 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer 296 Report post Posted April 24, 2022 Second horse looks worth following ... Dissing ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Ghost 36 Report post Posted April 24, 2022 Have they removed the Barrier Certificate? If not who is giving them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
poundforpound 745 Report post Posted April 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, Grey Ghost said: Have they removed the Barrier Certificate? If not who is giving them? Stipes / RIB usually do that wee job don’t they ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Bukowski 411 Report post Posted April 24, 2022 Farq me , I wouldn't be bagging the starting staff elbow 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobeit 99 Report post Posted April 24, 2022 A few thoughts... The starting staff on racedays are there to load horses safely, not to educate them. That's one of the reasons we have jumpouts & trials. Barrier staff on those occasions may well put the final touches on young horses getting their barrier education, but they shouldn't be expected to educate from the start either. Stipes shouldn't be issuing barrier certs until they are confident that a horse is educated enough and mature enough to cope with the starting gate procedure on raceday. A decent breaker or a trainer who is a real horseman/woman usually produces horses that are willing to load & jump out of the stalls at their debut. In my time, I also found that having a stable old-timer or retired horse or two who know all the ropes can be useful when you are only educating one or two babies at a time at the barriers. Pegasus 9, Pam Robson, Dopey and 3 others 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted April 25, 2022 Yep....they should always be educated to a point where barriers shouldn't be a problem but on the odd occasion, a horse will let you down...it happens. What should happen then is that competent professionals should bridge that eventuation by understanding what to do and when. You blokes who aren't prepared to call it as it was....that being uneducated people hoping that 2 yo's will load themselves......obviously haven't had any experience in loading horses into barriers. This is meant to be a professionally well run process and not some la de da picnic parade. Stop being PC. I speak from experience. It was abysmal. I don't know of any race EVER that had 4 late scratchings because they wouldn't load into the barriers. Makes me begin to understand why we're having problems with 5-7 year olds not being able to read or write when they get to school. Call it as it is and get it right. fermoy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurnyTom 1,542 Report post Posted April 25, 2022 Agree Berri, was on course and the feeling was far from happy. A complete joke, ridiculous Interestingly in the racebook on course CJC advertising for a new Starter, Oggy gone and Barry Pelling good for only 3 days. Leaves one wondering.....somehow more to it maybe. Raceday ain't a trial ground ... trainers stand up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
napier 339 Report post Posted April 25, 2022 Barrier attendants get $160 net for the days work and most have to take a days annual leave from their real job....its an industry problem !!! How can you introduce younger ones with the above conditions ? Pam Robson and TurnyTom 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted April 25, 2022 We'd all like to get younger people into the game but that ain't going to happen unless you educate a pool of people with a prospect that something new and exciting awaits them. I loved doing the barriers. Uni student who got $80 a day with the excitement of meeting and greeting some fab horses. Couple that with having the odd bet because I got to know the trainers and jockeys and I put myself through Uni doing the barriers. Corver and I ended up buying an old HT Holden that we rally-drived out of our dealings. I could also tell you some stories. We got to be quite well known (also did horse air transport services) as getting free flights was the name of the game to and fro from Australia. One day Vern Brockman (very good trainer in his day) came up to us and said he had a horse racing later that week called Sturgeon (by Beau Sovereign) in the races at Beverley (I think) and that it would win by the length of the straight if it could get out of the barriers quickly enough. In its last 4 or 5 starts it had walked out of the gates and beat itself. Got everyone in our frat house to chip in for the bet of a life time. Didn't tell anyone what the horse was as we didn't want the oil to leak too much. We sorted it out with the other barrier staff that I would be in total control of the horse and they would load the rest. Without doing anything illegal (nothing electronic), by the time that horse loaded his brain was ready to walk any tight rope. Flew the barriers at the start and won by 5. Ten minutes after the race I was pulled into the stewards room and was asked to view the video of the start from behind. All you could see was this white sneeker continuously going up and down bumping the horse on the arse with the most humongous kick in perfect placement and timing just as the barriers opened. After playing dumb and simply saying that I got told the horse obviously had a problem getting out of the barriers, they let me out of the jail box. What I didn't say was that I had worked out the timing with the starter, who I gave the signal to when to open the gates....and the rest is history. Had a huge frat party to beat all frat parties. Not cricket, I know, but you've got to be young once and it was in Australia after all. But back to the real issue, we simply need to make it appealing to get involved. Go to the Uni students and get them up to speed. Lincoln (the guys who know animals) is just down the road and market it as a bit of excitement. Simply got to get a few real barrier experts to teach them how to do it...or work out who and how to educate the existing bunch...or a combo of both. tasman man 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,090 Report post Posted April 26, 2022 Great story Berri. Might be a few others like that out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,941 Report post Posted April 26, 2022 Pegasus 9 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,941 Report post Posted April 26, 2022 Needs to be championed and expanded..its one of the most important parts of the whole process not eating pies in Petone. Pegasus 9, Baz (NZ) and Dopey 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...