Slot Races

[Iraklis 2,231]

Is there a reason other Clubs can't do the same thing? is there some sort of ruling against this?

 

Cheers Iraklis

[Dynamite 312]

We are looking at a Slot race here in Australia , funded by a tax on service fees

Will Kiwi's come for it?

[Iraklis 2,231]

Hey I don't see why Kiwis wouldn't come across for a Slot race, Oz had reps here for ours....

 

Cheers Iraklis

[Shad 1,554]

Not up to speed on the concept, if someone would explain what the slot races are about, thanks.

[mikenz 1,088]

12 hours ago, Shad said:

Not up to speed on the concept, if someone would explain what the slot races are about, thanks.

Funny you say that , until friday I wasn't up with all the concept, you may have read me old mate JJ flash slagging me off over a couple of post elsewhere regarding what turned out to be a sponsor, senz, have to say at the time I knew nothing about any of the concept, none of us know everything, flash dont even know how to spell know, so I'm just putting the record straight, hope he reads this and steps back and have a good look at himself, the world dont revolve around horse racing, I dont even think there was any mention on any main stream media, I could be wrong, seemed some thought it was a major event, maybe they thought the Russians would cease hostilities to watch it or listen to the race, maybe not,

One conclusion I have met that if I was advertiser on senz, I'd be seeking a drop in advert charges, if they have 75 grand to buy a raffle ticket then surely they can give the bill payer a better deal, unfortunately though it seems that most of their adverts are advertising their own shows, 

I still stand by my word that their racing coverage is crap but as opposed to nothing I spose anything is better.

Hope you had a nice Easter flash,  be keen to see you buying a slot for next year, knowing as much as you do you must be rolling in it

Shad sorry for not really replying to your query but sometimes one has to wait for the right time to reply to an ignorant arsehole as flash appears to be.

Have a nice day all.

[Mikie 325]

1 hour ago, mikenz said:

Funny you say that , until friday I wasn't up with all the concept, you may have read me old mate JJ flash slagging me off over a couple of post elsewhere regarding what turned out to be a sponsor, senz, have to say at the time I knew nothing about any of the concept, none of us know everything, flash dont even know how to spell know, so I'm just putting the record straight, hope he reads this and steps back and have a good look at himself, the world dont revolve around horse racing, I dont even think there was any mention on any main stream media, I could be wrong, seemed some thought it was a major event, maybe they thought the Russians would cease hostilities to watch it or listen to the race, maybe not,

One conclusion I have met that if I was advertiser on senz, I'd be seeking a drop in advert charges, if they have 75 grand to buy a raffle ticket then surely they can give the bill payer a better deal, unfortunately though it seems that most of their adverts are advertising their own shows, 

I still stand by my word that their racing coverage is crap but as opposed to nothing I spose anything is better.

Hope you had a nice Easter flash,  be keen to see you buying a slot for next year, knowing as much as you do you must be rolling in it

Shad sorry for not really replying to your query but sometimes one has to wait for the right time to reply to an ignorant arsehole as flash appears to be.

Have a nice day all.

He can't buy a slot next year mikenz

They are sold for 3 year terms

 

[Iraklis 2,231]

Ok, just read in the Herald article written by MGuerin, that there could possibly be a Slot Race for the Trotters same time as the Pacers next year, I have a question....give the following excerpt a read and see if you aint askin the same..... 

 

Cheers Iraklis

 

[john legend 743]

Concept ok but Sundees son ,Bolt for brilliance , and Muscle mountain would be (most likely)  totally dominant ,maybe Five wise men in 12 months time for 4th.  then again put in a few confident Aussies (is there any other sought) could be a goer. If any track can.....Cambridge can 

[Iraklis 2,231]

Why is the Trotters race not worth the same as the Pacers? that was my question....

 

Cheers Iraklis

[Nelli 432]

1 hour ago, Iraklis said:

Why is the Trotters race not worth the same as the Pacers? that was my question....

 

Cheers Iraklis

The usual bias. The justification is that more pacers are bred than trotters (don't suit those who want quick returns). But trotting owners tend to hang onto their horses and if you look at the leading 5yo+ stats for 2021 the pacer:trotter ratio is around 50:50, both in earnings and horse numbers. So when it comes to races for available "open class" aged horses in NZ, there is little justification to treat trotters so differently than pacers. 

[Iraklis 2,231]

Well Nelli, I know from past experience that the costs to have either trained are the same  I just think it's somewhat unfair to have a Pacers Slot Race for vastly superior prize monies, and hey perhaps there'd be more Trotters bred if they weren't treated so much like the poor cousins to the Pacers....just sayin

 

Cheers Iraklis

[eljay 1,719]

Iraklis - too many breeders of pacers in HRNZ me thinkks.    Most of whom own pacers too!   But I may be wrong!!

[Nelli 432]

2 hours ago, Iraklis said:

Well Nelli, I know from past experience that the costs to have either trained are the same  I just think it's somewhat unfair to have a Pacers Slot Race for vastly superior prize monies, and hey perhaps there'd be more Trotters bred if they weren't treated so much like the poor cousins to the Pacers....just sayin

 

Cheers Iraklis

Don't have to tell me - I'm a pure trotting owner/breeder and have had past decades of low yearling prices, canned juvenile races and low stakes (in the NI so in recent years haven't even bothered trying to race our 2yos). Had the double whammy of a 3yo filly being the 2nd best trotter in her year but not getting black type because the derbies in which she was the runner-up had such poor stakes at that time. Its hard to shift entrenched attitudes. However, one has to give Auckland kudos. Open class trotters and pacers have similar amounts of stakes up for grabs over a year. One can earn good money with a trotter at the Park which is why it is not unusual for trotters to outnumber pacers.

[tasman man 742]

5 hours ago, Nelli said:

Don't have to tell me - I'm a pure trotting owner/breeder and have had past decades of low yearling prices, canned juvenile races and low stakes (in the NI so in recent years haven't even bothered trying to race our 2yos). Had the double whammy of a 3yo filly being the 2nd best trotter in her year but not getting black type because the derbies in which she was the runner-up had such poor stakes at that time. Its hard to shift entrenched attitudes. However, one has to give Auckland kudos. Open class trotters and pacers have similar amounts of stakes up for grabs over a year. One can earn good money with a trotter at the Park which is why it is not unusual for trotters to outnumber pacers.

 You sure love those trotters Nelli....... To be fair its only in recent years that the % of them to pacers in North has risen significantly .

looking back to the early 2000's with decent size fields there was rarely more than 2 x trot races in a 10 race [ and up to 12 ] card.

And what year was your Derby disappointment ? In early 2000's it was worth $50k at Alexandra Park ,then about 2006 moved to $75 k !

Kudos to ATC a bit generous looking at recent years when some 2 yr old trot races have been canned. My syndicates have 4 x times [ 2 horses , twice ] won 2 yr old trot races reduced to a Stake of $2 k or less , plus another at $5k ! Then another horse ,same last season 2 x races for $2k or less , one when 5 starters .

But the club can't take all the blame if only 4 or 5 young trotter nominate to race. The Owners and trainers are responsible when the horses are there but kept in cotton wool !

[Nelli 432]

1 hour ago, tasman man said:

 You sure love those trotters Nelli....... To be fair its only in recent years that the % of them to pacers in North has risen significantly .

looking back to the early 2000's with decent size fields there was rarely more than 2 x trot races in a 10 race [ and up to 12 ] card.

And what year was your Derby disappointment ? In early 2000's it was worth $50k at Alexandra Park ,then about 2006 moved to $75 k !

Kudos to ATC a bit generous looking at recent years when some 2 yr old trot races have been canned. My syndicates have 4 x times [ 2 horses , twice ] won 2 yr old trot races reduced to a Stake of $2 k or less , plus another at $5k ! Then another horse ,same last season.

But the club can't take all the blame if only 4 or 5 young trotter nominate to race. The Owners and trainers are responsible when the horses are there!

Yes, love our trotters. Our disappointment was in the late 1990s when the 3yo trotters Sires Stakes was $18k (cf pacing c&g $135k), the Trotting stakes $26k and the Rosso Antico $25k. Yes, Auckland has a long history of canning or reducing programmed 2yo trot races to non-totes so I presume like us other northern owners don't waste money trying to race our babies. Maybe if the new racing schedule had something for northern 2yo trotters to aim for late season,  we could be tempted - but there isn't.

[john legend 743]

Nelli I believe the standard of trotting has improved at the top end but generally where we have  larger fields and stand starts it is not a good betting proposition with sometimes half field breaking at start or during race. This seems to be worse in NZ than America where there are serious repercussions for constant breakers. I only pose the question why is this and how will it be fixed ? if not  lower stakes and less trotting races with less stakes will remain the norm.(ps our betting syndicate has only 1 rule ...no low class trotting races permitted as by experience it has been a bad return on investment)

[tasman man 742]

9 minutes ago, john legend said:

Nelli I believe the standard of trotting has improved at the top end but generally where we have  larger fields and stand starts it is not a good betting proposition with sometimes half field breaking at start or during race. This seems to be worse in NZ than America where there are serious repercussions for constant breakers. I only pose the question why is this and how will it be fixed ? if not  lower stakes and less trotting races with less stakes will remain the norm.(ps our betting syndicate has only 1 rule ...no low class trotting races permitted as by experience it has been a bad return on investment)

This aspect of trotting races has not been discussed on here.

I believe it is a factor.....trotting races overall , especially the inexperienced ones and non-winners are not seen as worth the risk so betting on these races is considerably less.

Conversely , the better ones usually hold their form and become dominant.

Pointless comparing NZ with Aussie but the latter is able to run meetings where every race is a trotting race ....frequently too !

With the cost of 'pacing' so high now , and made worse by the 'Bettors Delight' factor it is a wonder more folk with a spare paddock don't try a trotter , they get to the races much sooner than the good old days !

[JJ Flash 2,132]

48 minutes ago, tasman man said:

they get to the races much sooner than the good old days !

Im going to suggest that it all started when Sundon arrived here and then went to stud . Coupled with other American speed sires in resent times gave hope to those breeding trotters. The proof is in the pudding if you look at prices paid now for trotting yearlings.  IMO they come to hand quicker and are now racing for better stakes. 

[Iraklis 2,231]

Hey guys, regardin the Trotters breaking in stand start races, and or in races etc in general, doesn't that come down to how the horse is trained? is it not the job of the trainer to get it runnin right? I mean correct....

 

Cheers Iraklis

[Pure Steel 1,285]

17 hours ago, Nelli said:

Don't have to tell me - I'm a pure trotting owner/breeder and have had past decades of low yearling prices, canned juvenile races and low stakes (in the NI so in recent years haven't even bothered trying to race our 2yos). Had the double whammy of a 3yo filly being the 2nd best trotter in her year but not getting black type because the derbies in which she was the runner-up had such poor stakes at that time. Its hard to shift entrenched attitudes. However, one has to give Auckland kudos. Open class trotters and pacers have similar amounts of stakes up for grabs over a year. One can earn good money with a trotter at the Park which is why it is not unusual for trotters to outnumber pacers.

Hopefully you might get a connection in Victoria then Nelli. They are pro-active and have entire 'Trotting' programs each month. esp Maryborough.

Couple of QLD mates have moved down there to take advantage. NZ has Brent Lilley , Anthony Butt, Nathan Purdon, Richard Brosnan, and now a Dickie as well I believe.

Norm Jenkin racing lots of ex-pat kiwis out of the 'Gath' barn too, and isn't he getting good results. $1,000,000 with Tornado Valley was incredible.

Last week a NI trotter named Mafusa Metro won by 8 lengths and looks set to dominate , so if you get a good one send em over ? to one of those kiwi blokes maybe. 

Bernie's Team and the good Dr Luc C are doing well in the north lately, but lot more races to choose from in Victoria now.

Trotters are going ahead in leaps and bounds !! lol..... when they're out of gait anyway lol....   no but seriously Vic is worth a look if you know Richard or Ants etc,

 

[john legend 743]

The link to my summation above was to try to answer the question and reason why a trotting slot race could not be 1 million or close to as the pacers. I appreciate the top trotters at 2200 mobile Cambridge would be ,hopefully a fair contest with no breakers  but there is always that possibility for large punters.(who want to eliminate every risk they can )It would still be a large financial return for the winner.

[tasman man 742]

5 minutes ago, john legend said:

The link to my summation above was to try to answer the question and reason why a trotting slot race could not be 1 million or close to as the pacers. I appreciate the top trotters at 2200 mobile Cambridge would be ,hopefully a fair contest with no breakers  but there is always that possibility for large punters.(who want to eliminate every risk they can )It would still be a large financial return for the winner.

The success and value of slot races comes down to the funding...especially the purchasing of slots by sponsors, enthusiasts and investors !

It is generally agreed that the RACE had the novelty of being the first such race but the financial implications made it an expensive exercise to be involved with and the commendable subscriptions takeup was largely from a group of 'generous' participants showing their passion for the Industry.

Will that 'goodwill' exist for a second visit to the well.....the RACE is hoping to get a boost from HRNZ to increase the total prize money.

Question......Can the industry , HRNZ and the club running slot races justify spending/throwing money at a couple of top end races when the majority of harness races are being run for pitiful stakes ....there are still too many stakes run for around $9 k which is a disgrace.

Costs are soaring , most owners are very resilient and continue to battle away recovering about 25% of their running costs but I think it most unrealistic to expect them to stand by and fork out for the battlers who attract a good % of the betting and are expected to fill up the fields to create interest and jobs in the Industry.

Group races are necessary and relevant ...the top horses also get ample opportunities over the dtich.

More focus needed on minimum stakes IMO.

They are disgraceful !

[Nelli 432]

1 hour ago, Iraklis said:

Hey guys, regardin the Trotters breaking in stand start races, and or in races etc in general, doesn't that come down to how the horse is trained? is it not the job of the trainer to get it runnin right? I mean correct....

 

Cheers Iraklis

If maiden pacers had to do standing starts all the time while learning the racing game, punters would stay away from them too. Getting away well from stands depends heaps on the horse's temperament. We had a great trotter trained by a top SI trotting trainer that was a speed machine off a mobile, won multiple G1 mobile races in NZ and Australia but was a poor average at best off a stand. Last year we sacked a relation of the above that our trainer said was the best gaited trotter in the stable but became a nutcase with standing starts. We breed for high speed but our trotters must first overcome the stand. 

[Nelli 432]

49 minutes ago, tasman man said:

The success and value of slot races comes down to the funding...especially the purchasing of slots by sponsors, enthusiasts and investors !

It is generally agreed that the RACE had the novelty of being the first such race but the financial implications made it an expensive exercise to be involved with and the commendable subscriptions takeup was largely from a group of 'generous' participants showing their passion for the Industry.

Will that 'goodwill' exist for a second visit to the well.....the RACE is hoping to get a boost from HRNZ to increase the total prize money.

Question......Can the industry , HRNZ and the club running slot races justify spending/throwing money at a couple of top end races when the majority of harness races are being run for pitiful stakes ....there are still too many stakes run for around $9 k which is a disgrace.

Costs are soaring , most owners are very resilient and continue to battle away recovering about 25% of their running costs but I think it most unrealistic to expect them to stand by and fork out for the battlers who attract a good % of the betting and are expected to fill up the fields to create interest and jobs in the Industry.

Group races are necessary and relevant ...the top horses also get ample opportunities over the dtich.

More focus needed on minimum stakes IMO.

They are disgraceful !

IMO the RACE is fine as a sweepstake race for the big boys to put their own money into and as a spur to attract new sponsors. But it shouldn't siphon off anything from the existing HRNZ/sponsors funding bucket. Otherwise they are robbing the poor to pay the rich. I assume what HRNZ and especially Cambridge want is for the RACE to greatly boost interest and betting turnover, and some of that increased interest in harness racing persists even after the Aussies go home.