chevy86

Track Records

Recommended Posts

Why is it that there has only been one track record run (and that was over the rare distance 1100m in 2010) at Ellerslie this century? Surely not due to track watering? Or lack of tempo early preventing a genuine race and plenty of interference?

Just curious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah you only have to look at WFA 2000m races at Ellerslie Chev over the past 20 years,most are pedestrian affairs with little more than a sprint home and that's running for over 100k ūüėē¬†From Memory only Soriano has come from last in a 2.02 race when pressure went on from the 800m .look at the Avondale Jockey Club website and track records are nowhere to be seen let alone ever challenged and comprehensive track data is thin on the ground . Piss poor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

National Records.

Haven't up-dated my list for several years but had listed the times from 800 m. to 3,200m. For distances over 1,400m., all times were set before 1994, except for 2,500m. in 1995.

The 1,200m. of 1:06.59 by Victory Dais in 1993, may have been bettered if Trentham could accurately measure the time and distance. High Glee ran 6 furlongs in 1:08, in 1968 and Johnny Cash ran 1.5 miles in 2.25, in 1969. Fifty years later and the speed of all horses may have increased but appears that there is little improvement at the "elite" level. So, did all the expensive, imported stallions and mare add much pace? Races will always have a winner but are they getting better?

Captain Cook, an otherwise modest performer, went under 2 minutes for 2,000m. in 1992 - 30 years ago. How often does that happen?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Gruff said:

Yeah you only have to look at WFA 2000m races at Ellerslie Chev over the past 20 years,most are pedestrian affairs with little more than a sprint home and that's running for over 100k ūüėē

That's true. So many races now something gets to the lead and drops anchor to try and get a soft run then make it a sprint home. It does also seem there are less frontrunning horses now. Back in the day you would get those horses that put the pressure on from the start and tried to break their opposition. Now it's about cheap sectionals and riding conservatively. Certainly makes the racing less exciting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember when we had heavy, soft, easy, hard & fast track ratings, then we guaged by the penetrometer which was essentially scientific guess work. Simple answer is we don't (won't) race on hard and fast tracks any more as a result of which we rarely see a record time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Blue said:

Remember when we had heavy, soft, easy, hard & fast track ratings, then we guaged by the penetrometer which was essentially scientific guess work. Simple answer is we don't (won't) race on hard and fast tracks any more as a result of which we rarely see a record time.

So you squaring blame on Course managers Blue Boy?  I remember the day Riodinin ran 1.21 flat and the sometimes impressive Mumms jewel 1.8.3 yet the Dunstan qualifier was a 2.18 amble. A Japanese crowd sees 2.18 semifored for 2200 there would be a riot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shad track records were listed in the Matamata Race Book today.

1100m Sea Saint 1.03.31

1200m Captain Kurt 1.08.44

1400m Javelin 1.20.75

1600m Fire Commander 1.33.10

2000m Princess Kyoto 2.01.00

Interestingly Javelin and Fire Commander set their records on the  same day- 16/2/91. No prizes for guessing who rode them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, gubellini said:

Shad track records were listed in the Matamata Race Book today.

1100m Sea Saint 1.03.31

1200m Captain Kurt 1.08.44

1400m Javelin 1.20.75

1600m Fire Commander 1.33.10

2000m Princess Kyoto 2.01.00

Interestingly Javelin and Fire Commander set their records on the  same day- 16/2/91. No prizes for guessing who rode them!

Peter Tims?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That 2.01 was bettered by Guarantor after Matimba set up the 2.00.6 2016 Kaimai Stakes, Guess what who set up Princess Ks time couldnt get  close, .. Matimba lead up a 1.33 .4 mile win there its previous start ,Anna Jones in the saddle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, gubellini said:

Shad track records were listed in the Matamata Race Book today.

1100m Sea Saint 1.03.31

1200m Captain Kurt 1.08.44

1400m Javelin 1.20.75

1600m Fire Commander 1.33.10

2000m Princess Kyoto 2.01.00

Interestingly Javelin and Fire Commander set their records on the  same day- 16/2/91. No prizes for guessing who rode them!

Glad to hear that, must be the only the ones that I see these days, but don't see as many as I once did,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Gruff said:

So you squaring blame on Course managers Blue Boy?  

Not at all Gruff. It seems that all trainers these days prefer a "cut in the ground" and as long as there is easing there's unlikely to be any records set. Never hear a trainer say his horse is better "on top of the ground". Anyway times are secondary aren't they? Winning is the important thing regardless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Blue said:

Not at all Gruff. It seems that all trainers these days prefer a "cut in the ground" and as long as there is easing there's unlikely to be any records set. Never hear a trainer say his horse is better "on top of the ground". Anyway times are secondary aren't they? Winning is the important thing regardless.

Just tugging ya leg Blue, times are secondary for everyone bar the serious¬† punter and owners and trainers of notorious back runners ,they know walk sprints bring in more variables. Look at the US and Japan handlebars down, best horse on the day wins a greater percentage of races, not that many hard luck stories ....our stipes reports are full.of hard luck stories and I'm sure this shouldnt be a game relying on¬†¬†'good fortune' .in saying that you know the odds now beat them¬†ūüôĄ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Gruff said:

Just tugging ya leg Blue, times are secondary for everyone bar the serious¬† punter and owners and trainers of notorious back runners ,they know walk sprints bring in more variables. Look at the US and Japan handlebars down, best horse on the day wins a greater percentage of races, not that many hard luck stories ....our stipes reports are full.of hard luck stories and I'm sure this shouldnt be a game relying on¬†¬†'good fortune' .in saying that you know the odds now beat them¬†ūüôĄ

That's part of the racing culture especially in America where they go hard from the gate especially on the dirt. The turf can be more nuanced but you can almost hear the incredulity in the course commentator if they ran a 50 second first 800m for example.

In France, it's slow, slow, quick, quick, slow so to speak and as for the UK and Ireland it's a mix. You do get the tactical cat-and-mouse races and you get the searching end-to-end gallops. One of the big parts of form analysis over here (as it is in NZ too I would imagine) is trying to figure out the pace angle. There are so many good jockeys over here at riding the fractions (often those who've spent some time in the US) - Frankie Dettori's probably the master. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Four things come to mind....

1. Manual stop watch governing of the times. Judge or stipe always keen to get to the finish line

2. There was no watering of tracks as there is today. You used to hear the track rattle. Interestingly enough, less deaths per 1000 horses back then to now. Probably had something to do with 

     genetics, bone density (could be genetics/ feed/ training processes) and straight out good horsemanship

3. Genetic plateau - 3 stallions and 40 broodmares to start with which has morphed into a greedy genetic rape of why the thoroughbred was created in the first place. Stallions covering 150+ mares have screwed the breed because we no longer have sustainable genetic bio-diversity in our herd. The breed used to be tough enduring horses but with the introduction of Northern Dancer we have bred a disposable/ short life span style of horse

4. Where were the starting gates positioned?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.