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5 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

95% of people follow the rules why should 5% get to dictate...rules are rules...just get vaxxed then no need to be an outcast...JMO.

Hang on a minute...you're advocating that no-one has a personal choice or right. If the jab protects those with the jab, why are you worried about those who choose not to have the jab? It's their life not yours.

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8 hours ago, Gruff said:

Prove his views wrong Flash ... I'm afraid you will struggle so an apology is in order

 So the majority of  scientists and medical professionals are wrong and Chevy is correct- that's todays humour sorted out. 

Gruff its your choice whether you  get vaxed or not, i could not care a less but - ask someone with polio whether it was a good idea of their parents not to vaccinate them when they had a chance. 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Berri said:

Hang on a minute...you're advocating that no-one has a personal choice or right. If the jab protects those with the jab, why are you worried about those who choose not to have the jab? It's their life not yours.

One might counter that argument with why should unvaccinated potentially  inundate hospitals at the expense of those with urgent issues non covid related. Its well known that surgery and cancer treatment delays have occurred as a result of Covid and that the NZ health system is under severe pressure already. Should medical professionals decide who goes first , vaxed or unvaxed? These are all ethical questions that face the profession and governments worldwide.

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But that's not what is happening in real life. This country had excessive waiting lists for surgery before Covid arrived. We're down $65b and counting and we haven't any improvements in hospital capacity. We're probably going to get overrun in testing facilities, and to put it frankly, I have not confidence the supply lines have been managed to cater for the new red light effects. 

57 people employed in the PM's spin doctor department to "manage the people's narrative" smacks of conscious subversion, the inability to allow people to administer what ever they feel is right for them worries me, and the inability to go to the doctor to get a blood test to see what one's immune system is saying about the antibodies in one's blood seriously disturbs me.

Why should vaxed or unvaxed share any right of precedence in relation to an operation of necessity? Precedence should be determined by the condition of health. The same could be said for the effects of the proposals placing Maori on boards, 3 Waters, preferential entry into med school and other tertiary organisations, at the expense of the best person getting the job/ role/ position. Why are the history books being re-written in respect of the Morioiri's role and position in domiciling NZ? 

In respect of the jab/ non jab position, you you chastise people who don't get a measles, mump, polio or TB jab when these are just as deadly as Covid? Do we chastise people who play unsafe sex because that can spread HIV, Aids, Syphilis, Gonorrhea and bad bugs? 

This is a mess and you've all allowed yourselves to be led to a place that 30 years ago wouldn't have been possible. We'd have never allowed a PM to own the press as this one has done in the past. It's called communism or socialism. It's incredible how quickly it's happened. A mastermind lesson on social conditioning.

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And before you listen to this (if you do), simply remember that I am not an anti vaxer. I'm pro choice. I should be able to do with my body or my mind as I think fit. I don't think that the current political  mob that are running our show are any more intelligent than my mob of close associates and I are. How can you EVER trust a politician? They do not need any qualification to run for office. They are probably not the right person for the right job. Their motivation is to remain where they are at all costs. And this is the psychological profile that is telling you and me what we HAVE to do.

There has been evidence all across the globe that this Covid response thing isn't quite right...something's not gelling the right way. We're horse and animal people so we've got a bit of a better grasp of quarantine (comes from 40 days in the old days), immunisation and vaccination because we've lived through it on a regular basis. Some of us can't make sense of not being able to have a blood sample to see what antibodies are in the system. Why can't we? Because doctors will tell you the health ministry has said you can't. Or maybe that's wrong and the five different doctors that were asked to carry out a blood sample by five different people just so happen to be the only ones who believe what the health ministry is saying.

And what about the PCR tests....those tests that we rely on to give us the data in respect of the real viral exposure position? All the experts are now saying that they can't distinguish between Covid and the flu. And what about the structure of them in the first place? In a test like this you need to know the presence or activity of the LIVE pathogenic cells and not the dead ones. This is lesson 101 in relation to screening for a viral spread. At 35-37 cycles (the methodology behind the testing process to determine whether live cells are present or not) you cannot determine this. All of our current tests are done at 35-37 cycles. You cannot determine the presence of live cells at this level!! That is so basic its simply a fact. So if you were a statistical boffin, you'd start asking questions, which of course many people currently are.

I have no factual position on these matters, but I'm struggling with the conflicts. As I said, I'm not an anti vaxer. I will not though, be drawn into acting and believing that I am a sheep.

So if you're brave enough, have a look at this. By way of background, this guy Dr Reiner Fuellmich is one of the planet's leading litigation lawyers. Yes he is a bottom feeder but he has successfully brought action against the big big business boys in the past. He's got a team of 1500 lawyers around the globe working on exposing the truth and testing that position in the courts. I've been following it with a degree of curiosity because it's audacious to say the least. But the more you understand what he is doing, the more teeth you realise he just might have.

https://rumble.com/vsm05v-premeditated-mass-murder-dr-reiner-fuellmichs-upcoming-legal-battle-against.html

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10 hours ago, Berri said:

Hang on a minute...you're advocating that no-one has a personal choice or right. If the jab protects those with the jab, why are you worried about those who choose not to have the jab? It's their life not yours.

No I said I am happy to have the jab..and get the freedoms if they choose not to then it their choice please dont mince my words to suit your agenda..each to their own I chose to get vaxxed and happy to do so.

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17 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

95% of people follow the rules why should 5% get to dictate...rules are rules...just get vaxxed then no need to be an outcast...JMO.

Your latest response is difficult to interpret. The start of this would seem to be an objection to the 5% unvaccinated having the ability to "dictate".  A person who is not vaccinated also shouldn't be classed as an outcast. That's the point

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4 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

One might counter that argument with why should unvaccinated potentially  inundate hospitals at the expense of those with urgent issues non covid related. Its well known that surgery and cancer treatment delays have occurred as a result of Covid and that the NZ health system is under severe pressure already. Should medical professionals decide who goes first , vaxed or unvaxed? These are all ethical questions that face the profession and governments worldwide.

You have to be kidding. That's not an ethical question even, may be a human rights one. If I get lung cancer and have been a 50 pack year smoker and someone who chose never to smoke gets lung cancer do you really think the latter should get treatment preferentially? No code of ethics or ethical principles would even suggest such discrimination.

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49 minutes ago, Berri said:

Your latest response is difficult to interpret. The start of this would seem to be an objection to the 5% unvaccinated having the ability to "dictate".  A person who is not vaccinated also shouldn't be classed as an outcast. That's the point

NO stop twisting my words to suit your agenda...what I said and I clearly meant was, if you are vaccinated under the rules as they are you get certain privileges...which me being vaxxed are allowed, however if you choose not to get vaxxed dont moan if you are not afforded the same privileges..your choice to not get vaxxed has some consequences...not mandated by me but I chose to follow the 95% of most of NZ...as I say my choice...as it is anyones not to get vaxxed but it has consequences at present.

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18 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

NO stop twisting my words to suit your agenda...what I said and I clearly meant was, if you are vaccinated under the rules as they are you get certain privileges...which me being vaxxed are allowed, however if you choose not to get vaxxed dont moan if you are not afforded the same privileges..your choice to not get vaxxed has some consequences...not mandated by me but I chose to follow the 95% of most of NZ...as I say my choice...as it is anyones not to get vaxxed but it has consequences at present.

I'm not twisting your words...you wrote them.

Read what I wrote..."Your latest response is difficult to interpret"

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1 hour ago, Leggy said:

You have to be kidding

No I've heard this type of argument many times of late by a variety of people in differing socio economic groups. Did not say i agreed with it  but rest assured some Darwin followers/admirers have little sympathy for those that choose not to be vaccinated.

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6 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

One might counter that argument with why should unvaccinated potentially  inundate hospitals at the expense of those with urgent issues non covid related. Its well known that surgery and cancer treatment delays have occurred as a result of Covid and that the NZ health system is under severe pressure already. Should medical professionals decide who goes first , vaxed or unvaxed? These are all ethical questions that face the profession and governments worldwide.

Sure have, and that is one of the main reasons for the scaremongering since Day 1.

When you realise there is a huge Doctor/Nurse shortage and only 4 ICU beds for every 100,000 people in NZ it’s hardly surprising.

 

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7 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

 So the majority of  scientists and medical professionals are wrong and Chevy is correct- that's todays humour sorted out. 

Gruff its your choice whether you  get vaxed or not, i could not care a less but - ask someone with polio whether it was a good idea of their parents not to vaccinate them when they had a chance. 

 

 

 

Funny you should mention polio Flush--I unfortunately contracted it as a child, BEFORE the vaccine was available. Post Mr Salk there has been a positive response to the vaccine, primarily because it is actually a vaccine! and back in the day we had political leaders who were not motivated by malevolent agendae.

On Covid I believe the Wiles, Hendys, Faucis about as much as I do the Climate alarmists, but there are worthy scientific advocates who unfortunately get cancelled.

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10 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

 So the majority of  scientists and medical professionals are wrong and Chevy is correct- that's todays humour sorted out. 

Gruff its your choice whether you  get vaxed or not, i could not care a less but - ask someone with polio whether it was a good idea of their parents not to vaccinate them when they had a chance. 

With all due respect Flash you're knowledge on  polio is on  par with Covid. If you choose to have an opinion back it up with fact please I'm sure you mean well but you're only regurgitating misinformation.... Big pharma have paid out 20 Billion for fraud . Nothing to see here

 

 

 

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Interesting the government was quite ok with the doctors and nurses that would not except the jab, moving on, teachers as well, all the trades that were in dire shortages before covid stuck, crazy to be fair, when it ramps up they'll be screaming for any buggar, what about the legality of the health and safety work place mandate, a very dark and grey area in my opinion, and who knows the possibilities that could occur down the track, interesting times ahead, don't bother relying on the health system, as it will be every dog for themselves, it s jungle out there.

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