RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Berri

Time for a look at the 1200m start point at Trentham

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The reason the timing system we produced wasn't introduced was that we showed that you couldn't produce the sectional times correctly because the actual official course distance and the actual distance differed. Levante ran 1.06.18....a WORLD RECORD.

The Wellington Guineas over 1400 was 1.23.17 and the 1100 Wellesley in 1.03.01. Bankers Choice ran 1600 in 1.37.80....so the track wasn't lightening fast based on those races. On that Levante ran each 100m in 5.507. That means that she runs the 1000m in 55.07 and beats the 2yo's by 2.5 seconds or 5l per second being 12.5 lengths. That the other horse ran a nose behnd means that two horses broke the world record.

And just on a small note, what happened to the distances of a nose, a head or a neck. On Loveracing, the margin was .1 lengths...Really? Who's idea was that? A person with no history?

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.Most of the races on the day were run at ambles,some pressure was applied after an early walk which excentuated how good Bankers Choice really is in the anniversary but also spotlighted the inability of many of our hoops to  judge pace... The Japanese know what racing is really about,and their punters rarely walk away feeling hard done by....same cannot be said here. 

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40 minutes ago, Tauhei Notts said:

The gap between the starting stalls and the end of the 1200 metre chute seemed to me to be bigger than it has been in the past.

 

40 minutes ago, Tauhei Notts said:

The gap between the starting stalls and the end of the 1200 metre chute seemed to me to be bigger than it has been in the past.

TN, been happening for a while with the earth expanding like a balloon due to catastrophic global warming🤣 Be very afraid.

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Have to agree with Berri, some time back a tangerine 2yo Louis Luck?, well he ran 1.08 and a bit. One has to assume any 2yo whom runs that sort of time is pretty smart. Well he was kicked out of the tangerine barn in fairly quick order to southland. The times make no sense to me.

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12 hours ago, Berri said:

The reason the timing system we produced wasn't introduced was that we showed that you couldn't produce the sectional times correctly because the actual official course distance and the actual distance differed. Levante ran 1.06.18....a WORLD RECORD.

The Wellington Guineas over 1400 was 1.23.17 and the 1100 Wellesley in 1.03.01. Bankers Choice ran 1600 in 1.37.80....so the track wasn't lightening fast based on those races. On that Levante ran each 100m in 5.507. That means that she runs the 1000m in 55.07 and beats the 2yo's by 2.5 seconds or 5l per second being 12.5 lengths. That the other horse ran a nose behnd means that two horses broke the world record.

And just on a small note, what happened to the distances of a nose, a head or a neck. On Loveracing, the margin was .1 lengths...Really? Who's idea was that? A person with no history?

The 1200m races were all hand timed yesterday Berri.  

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No one believes Trentham or Riccarton chute times 

I’ve ridden plenty there and it’s “roll your eyes” stuff …. downhill…short trip …the train back to town is quicker 

This is just a bizarre “we set a world record” chest beating exercise for those who have nothing to beat their chests about 

Go to Flemington down the straight 6 if you want to see how fast you really are, or Ascot / Berkshire, up the hill …… even Newmarket 

This NZ Trackside rubbish is an embarrassment … or maybe the 14 million dollar funded RIB has insisted we get a few new world records to justify their existence :) 

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They’d be blown into the weeds at Flemington in the Newmarket. 

Or Oakleigh Plate at Caulfield. 

Good horse but Ozi sprinters are next level. Probably a group two chance over there. Tried to steer clear of the rail on the fav and got too far back. Especially when they are  running world records 

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I was told today that it was hand timed. What is going on in Wellington, both with the club and with the NZTR. It's fine to spend $14m pa but something as important as timing in 2022 isn't? Where is the leadership? Come on you guys....we gave you a paper on the racetracks and timing systems 5 years ago. We did all the hard work and still nothing done. I seriously hope the next CEO can pour a beer properly.

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5 hours ago, Berri said:

I was told today that it was hand timed. What is going on in Wellington, both with the club and with the NZTR. It's fine to spend $14m pa but something as important as timing in 2022 isn't? Where is the leadership? Come on you guys....we gave you a paper on the racetracks and timing systems 5 years ago. We did all the hard work and still nothing done. I seriously hope the next CEO can pour a beer properly.

Absolute Mickey Mouse stuff

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The Telegraph times at Trentham have always been very quick and questionable.

Victory Dias ran 1.06.59 way back in 1993, and Loader, Bawalaksana, Seachange, Guiseppina, Enzo’s Lad and Avantage were all timed under 1.07.

As a matter of interest, the Flemington record set in 2001 by Iglesia is 1.07.16.
 

Someone needs to get the measuring stick out…..🤔

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Total time posted  :
Telegraph 2021 : 1:07.95
Telegraph 2022 : 1:06.18

Time from barrier opening to the red marker on the inside fence (800m?).
2021 : 23.42 secs
2022 : 21.84 secs

Time from red marker to finish line.
2021 : 44.53 secs
2022 : 44.34 secs

I also did similar analysis with other early marking points down the chute.

To the end of the chute where the inside rail ends.
2021 : 38.69
2022 : 36.70

Time from this point to finish line.
2021 : 29.26 secs
2022 : 29.48 secs

Therefore, I think there are 2 possibilities arising out of Levante's time.
1) The 1200 metre chute was extremely fast.
2) The barriers were positioned slightly forward of the 1200m mark.

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So in our investigations when we were asked to provide a timing system for NZ  in 2016, we stated the following:

1. There are three types of timing protocols in NZ;

2.One consists of the steward of the racing club clicking a hand timing piece when they consider the gates have opened;

3. One consists of the timer being activated when the start button is pushed by the starter; and

4. One consists of when the actual gates hit a time switch when the gates have sprung open.

This inconsistency will always provide differential timing discrepancies if one wishes to record accurate certified timing of races, and sectional times.

In addition to the actual timing systems, there would seem to be inconsistences in the actual distance of the races when comparing these actual distances to the advertised distances. It would seem that of the three race courses that have surveyed using GPS system with a 200mm accuracy, inaccuracies to be + or -  16m. This does not allow an accurate timing solution to be achieved. We would advise that all race tracks be accurately surveyed to ensure that the actual start points and distances are properly certified.

Our solution  to this would be to survey and Lidar the tracks to put to bed once and for all the weird timing results that have been recorded. The Lidar will provide an accurate representation of the track topography.

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On 1/17/2022 at 12:23 PM, Charlie Bukowski said:

What time did Blue Blood run back in the 70s.

Remembering they used to write the time on a blackboard.

With hand timing of the same Group 1 last Saturday, things have really come a long way .....

 

1975   1 10.25

1976   1 7.25

1977   1 11.5  

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2 hours ago, Al Feilding said:

Definitely run down the valley 

It’s absolutely downhill, it feels downhill and it looks downhill 

Like others here I’ve ridden all those straight sixes from Riccarton to Flemington, and Trentham and Riccarton are very downhill 

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Remarks on twitter prompted me to look at this further.
I hand timed all the Telegraph's from 2017 onward from the 600m mark to the finish.

2022
Total time : 1:06.18
Last 600 hand timed : 32.36

2021
Total time : 1:07.95
Last 600 hand timed : 32.38

2020
Total time : 1:07.04
Last 600 hand timed : 33.01

2019
Total time : 1:06.95
Last 600 hand timed : 35.15

2018
Total time : 1:08.30
Last 600 hand timed : 35.40

2017
Total time : 1:07.71
Last 600 hand timed : 35.16

From these figures, we find that Levante's time of 1:06.18 totally checks out. The anomaly lies in the 2021 race, where they must have run the first 400 metres very slowly.

Conclusion
When comparing Levante's time from marker points along the chute to the finish against the 2021 race won by Avantage, Levante's time looks suspect. But when comparing with a wider sample of races from the 600m mark (hand timed off the screen), Levante's time of 1:06.18 looks legit. Levante ran a NZ Record, albeit officially hand timed.

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