RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Baz (NZ)

NZTR Consultation Paper

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All well and good comparing us to Victoria when it suits them, but it's a pity they don't seem to understand that these highly trained and regulated NZ trainers go out and race for $12,000 whereas their Victorian counterparts go out and race for $100,000. Puts a different perspective on things.

The only areas in which NZ and Victoria compare closely are the amount of regulation and the overall administration costs.

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I note the comparisons to Ireland which would seem a better parallel than Australia in terms of population.

Ireland punches above its weight in the relationship with the UK in terms of the quality of the competition. It's not so much the source of horses, jockeys and stable staff it once was but it's still important.

If I were NZTR I'd be looking at how Ireland operates.

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1 minute ago, stodge said:

I note the comparisons to Ireland which would seem a better parallel than Australia in terms of population.

Ireland punches above its weight in the relationship with the UK in terms of the quality of the competition. It's not so much the source of horses, jockeys and stable staff it once was but it's still important.

If I were NZTR I'd be looking at how Ireland operates.

They wouldn't be opposed to that. I'm sure a fact finding trip to Ireland appeals.

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2 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

They wouldn't be opposed to that. I'm sure a fact finding trip to Ireland appeals.

I presume this is more a comment along the lines of "any excuse for NZTR to waste more public money".

Fair enough - there's plenty of information on Ireland in the report.

The two key differences between NZ and Ireland are first in Ireland they race for about double the NZ prize money (and that's considered poor by international standards) and the size of the horse population which is much larger in Ireland at 7,392. That means bigger fields - 28+ in big handicaps and novice hurdles not unknown so it's even tougher to win when there are more rivals than races with smaller fields.

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I simply don't get what these guys are trying to promote. The last line in this scares the crap out of me

image.png.841e1ed895fcb621aa2da6d1a5127518.png

We are at the moment experiencing a serious problem with racing stakes and costs to owners....in fact costs to the entire industry because any small stakes gains that we may have experienced over the past 24 months have been eaten up by inflation and the inability to find good staff. So I'd really like to know who the promoter of this initiative is because on the list of have to do's, this would be a "I'd like to do when the time is right". The question of education is an important feature of improving the industry but without the right platform, all you will do is breed another bureaucracy that will cost more and piss more people off.

I don't think I have seen many of these NZTR sponsored consultation papers, and I would have thought there are far more important ones to be publishing before this one, so who ever is in charge of this one has got the degree of necessity, precedence and timing horribly wrong. I'd have thought that consultation papers on sponsorship, affiliate programs to support getting racing information into the community and betting was the most important, yet I have never seen anything on these most important matters.

I was very recently in Coopers Beach, up north. Had to drive to Keri Keri (58km) to get a Raceform. You might say that I should be looking at these things on line but that's not the way my team like looking at the form, the breeding and the process of entertainment. Lying on the beach with a laptop doesn't do it for me.

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57 minutes ago, Berri said:

I simply don't get what these guys are trying to promote. The last line in this scares the crap out of me

image.png.841e1ed895fcb621aa2da6d1a5127518.png

 

 

This should scare the shit out you to Berri     Sound in principle but not if abused 

We have had the rationalisation  of Racecourse Venues  now it the turn of the trainers.

easy to abuse if you want a course to close  remove its income. just continue to squeeze the life out of the industry

CPD Development

Introduction of continuing professional development programmes
Every licenceholder will need to complete a certain level of continuing professional development, which
may include performance standards, every year to be eligible to renew their licence.
In setting CPD requirements NZTR will take into account industry experience and knowledge and, where
appropriate, will recognize that participants can identify their own learning needs.
It is intended that CPD will be introduced in stages over the next three years.

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3 hours ago, Berri said:

I simply don't get what these guys are trying to promote. The last line in this scares the crap out of me

image.png.841e1ed895fcb621aa2da6d1a5127518.png

 

Scares me as well. 

As a small player who does do things on a low cost model because I do everything but ride them myself I guess I'd be gone. I keep costs down a bit because I crush own oats and cut my own chaff, all to make it affordable to some owners who would have no chance of affording a horse in a bigger stable. 

I'd say 95 percent of the people I have got involved in ownership through syndicates would not be involved at all if I hadn't have chased them,cricket and rugby mates  etc,   yeah some are only small percent owners but from these guys who knows who might win lotto or have a wealthy uncle leave them money and want to get involved in a bigger way in the future. 

Our industry is losing people by the day,closing racing in regions like East Coast ect those areas will be lost forever and no one will be following racing in five years in those regions the last thing we need is to be  doing is killing off trainers who  are still getting new people involved.  

 

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And why is it so wrong if some can do it a little cheaper than others...if they have had the experience to be a trainer and can do it cheaper why should they be forced out...I for one do look at the costs when looking for a trainer the returns are miserly so every cent saved is a money in my pocket. I dont buy expensive horses and the returns are not there to warrant it in my opinion so yes I agree we should be encouraging more to get involved not chasing them out. This has never been the NZ way why has it now turned down this track???

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This looks like a collection of corporate speak, academic cliches & babble with that pidgin English on the front page being the early giveaway. Some one has written this simply to impress someone else higher up the ladder, to suggest that positive action is underway, to either secure funding going forward, or to fulfill some aspirational goal written on a Wellington whiteboard.

The document gives the required nod to the maori community, but not included much yet on the LGBT outfit. Going to be interesting to see if they can mandate the trainers, median age is stated to be 57 yrs (really?), to bow to having at least 1 transsexual track rider. These should be compulsory where the trackwork requires riders to be able to go both ways?

Like all else this govt touches at the moment, it is simply a foul wind passing through & will lead nowhere - don't panic.

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1 hour ago, Littletramp said:

. Some one has written this simply to impress someone else higher up the ladder, 

That someone and also the someone higher up the ladder should do something positive for the industry - like getting in a car from Petone office and driving up to Trentham and filling in all the hoof marks on the course proper that were obvious at the abandoned December meeting.

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It is incredible that a substantial, nationwide, long established, industry has been captured by an ideologically driven minority with no obvious industry knowledge that are able to push through extreme structural changes virtually without question and without any fear of consequences. Hard to think of anything comparable really.

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On 1/3/2022 at 8:22 PM, We're Doomed said:

All well and good comparing us to Victoria when it suits them, but it's a pity they don't seem to understand that these highly trained and regulated NZ trainers go out and race for $12,000 whereas their Victorian counterparts go out and race for $100,000. Puts a different perspective on things.

The only areas in which NZ and Victoria compare closely are the amount of regulation and the overall administration costs.

And bloody harsh Lockdowns that have screwed over us Racing folk and livelihoods

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14 hours ago, Berri said:

I simply don't get what these guys are trying to promote. The last line in this scares the crap out of me

image.png.841e1ed895fcb621aa2da6d1a5127518.png

.

 

THE SQUEEZE IS ON

 

Paragraphs 2 and 3 hint of CLASSISM further entrenched by the following proposed rule changes which will impact on both Class B (permit to train)those wishing or forced to drop down under CPD to Owner Trainer Licence and existing Owner Trainers.

EXISTING RULE      {emphasis bold and underlined my highlights)

305 (1) A Class C trainer’s licence may be issued to a person who:

(a) trains:
(i) only horses solely owned or leased to him; and
(ii) only horses in respect of which he has an Ownership interest of at least 10%
with the balance being owned by one or more Near Relatives; and
(iii) no more than two horses in respect of which he has an Ownership interest of at
least 50%; and

(b) is competent to train horses; and
(c) owns or occupies an appropriate Trainer’s Premises; and
(d) is financially sound and of good character.

NEW PROPOSED DRAFT RULE

OWNER TRAINER LICENCE
307 An Owner Trainer Licence may only be granted to a person who meets the criteria for the issue of an
Owner Trainer Licence as set out in a Licensing Policy issued under Rule 303.
308 An Owner Trainer may:
(1) train, control and care for horses which are owned by the Owner Trainer, or in which the Owner
Trainer has an Ownership interest of at least 60% with the balance being owned by one or more
Near Relative(s);
(2) care for a horse at a Race Meeting which is trained by another Trainer with that Trainer’s
consent, if a Stipendiary Steward has been notified not less than 1 hour before the start of the
Race Meeting;
(3) employ:
(a) Stablehands;
(b) Slow Work Riders; and
(c) Fast Work Riders.

 

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Thank you Baz for bringing this matter to our attention.

I have spent the past two days worrying about it.

This seems to me to be a preposterous expense to put on our trainers.

I have done accounting work for trainers in the past and the thing that I noticed was that they needed the commission on sales out of their stables to achieve a minimum working wage.  In short, it is a tough lifestyle.  And how fast the economic circumstances have changed.  In the 1985-86 season our filly did okay.  She won a group 2 race.  The trainer's stakes percentages exceeded the trainer's fees on that filly for the season.  Nowadays for that to happen the filly would have needed to win TWO group one races.  Stakes percentages are not as significant as they were 35 years ago.

There is an awful sentence in the report that is really troubling me.  I am not as thick as pig shit, as I have a knowledge of binomial theorem, a smattering of French  and Greek, real good mental arithmetic skills and a sound knowledge of N.Z. geography; BUT;

"High performing horse trainers will no longer have to compete against those who have a lower cost operating model."

WTF does that mean?  That seems spooky to me.

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57 minutes ago, Tauhei Notts said:

 

There is an awful sentence in the report that is really troubling me.  I am not as thick as pig shit, as I have a knowledge of binomial theorem, a smattering of French  and Greek, real good mental arithmetic skills and a sound knowledge of N.Z. geography; BUT;

"High performing horse trainers will no longer have to compete against those who have a lower cost operating model."

WTF does that mean?  That seems spooky to me.

I can only assume that all racing will ultimately be centred on Ellerslie and the Cambridge AWT and only 10 or 12 "high performing" trainers will be licenced to operate.

And good to know about the binominal theorem. The rest of us will certainly know never to argue with you in about that.

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I think the Commerce Commission would be very interested in that line from the consultation paper. "High performing trainers (How is a high performing trainer identified??) will no longer have to compete against those who have a lower cost operating model".

It would seem that NZTR is using its powers to regulate to lessen competition in the sport/industry and deliberately so. In some jurisdictions this is a gaolable offence.  

In effect what NZTR is saying is that if we make it so expensive for a trainer to train we will get rid of the bottom dwellers - like this is their policy. The corollary being that big trainers working on the syndication model can just increase the fees to compensate for the extra costs and pass it on to the syndicates. For everyone else it's just another lump of costs that ordinary owners will end up wearing. 

So while we are actively working to increase stakes money with one hand they will be taking away with the other. 

Another point is the lack of research and back-up statistics and sensitivity analysis on any - in fact ALL - of these "revitalisation" initiatives. NZTR have in no way demonstrated how all this works for the benefit of the industry as a whole and not just the big end of town. They say we all have a place in the industry its just that for some that place will be the TAB tote queue.

Our industry "leaders" need to be reigned in big time - and just concentrate on ensuring race day operations across the country are carried out safely/effectively and efficiently.

I guarantee you when it becomes clearly obvious that all this hype about sustainable future and revitalisation has done nothing for the industry these so-called leaders will be long gone and sucking on another tit somewhere else.

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24 minutes ago, Contentious said:

The more I look at this - the more I am inclined to think it was written by the same plonker that proposed a cycle lane attached to the Auckland harbour bridge!

 

Certainly looks like the author is from the LABOUR /GREEN communist coalition!

Ardern has so many spin doctors she has obviously lent one to NZ Racing for the summer break !

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You are all missing the  really troubling stuff . Read the 2nd part  , Proposed policy wording , plenty there to sweat about .

 Here's a starter , (c) Use of training venues: The Trainer is permitted to conduct trackwork only at race clubs/venues where the trainer has permission of the club/venue  . (beaches ) . Minimum runners and winners: To be eligible for renewal of the licence, the Trainer is required to have a minimum of the following per racing season:  [1] starters in New Zealand; or (ii) [1] winners in New Zealand . We also have  6, SLOW WORK RIDER , 7, FAST WORK RIDER LICENCE , Jump riders , Minimum Riding Requirements: Unless in circumstances deemed appropriate by NZTR, in its discretion, such as sickness or injury, where a pro-rata number may be applied, to be eligible for renewal of the Licence, the Jumps Rider must have achieved the following each season: (i) [10] jumps race rides in New Zealand; or (ii) [1] jumps race winner in New Zealand.  SO if you don't have 10 rides in the previous season your out .

Have a study , plenty of dangerous stuff here .

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On 1/4/2022 at 7:18 AM, Berri said:

I simply don't get what these guys are trying to promote. The last line in this scares the crap out of me

image.png.841e1ed895fcb621aa2da6d1a5127518.png

We are at the moment experiencing a serious problem with racing stakes and costs to owners....in fact costs to the entire industry because any small stakes gains that we may have experienced over the past 24 months have been eaten up by inflation and the inability to find good staff. So I'd really like to know who the promoter of this initiative is because on the list of have to do's, this would be a "I'd like to do when the time is right". The question of education is an important feature of improving the industry but without the right platform, all you will do is breed another bureaucracy that will cost more and piss more people off.

I don't think I have seen many of these NZTR sponsored consultation papers, and I would have thought there are far more important ones to be publishing before this one, so who ever is in charge of this one has got the degree of necessity, precedence and timing horribly wrong. I'd have thought that consultation papers on sponsorship, affiliate programs to support getting racing information into the community and betting was the most important, yet I have never seen anything on these most important matters.

I was very recently in Coopers Beach, up north. Had to drive to Keri Keri (58km) to get a Raceform. You might say that I should be looking at these things on line but that's not the way my team like looking at the form, the breeding and the process of entertainment. Lying on the beach with a laptop doesn't do it for me.

Should have given us a bell Berri…..the place is packed with visitors, not a car park anywhere…..😎

You do know raceforms ( colour and b&w ) can be printed out from the TAB website…..the local lotto shop would have done it for you. ??

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