RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
uneasy

In my opinion(for what it’s worth)

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I have mates who live in Wellington who went to Trentham for their annual race meeting .... in the morning they asked me for some tips so they could have some bets.

After the abandonment I sent them a text and said I hoped they were being well looked after on track and still had a great day.

Their reply - they had already bailed out..... "the drinks on course are ridiculous .. by the time we left they still hadn't got bubbly in the fridge "

Sadly this is just par for the course. Shambles. Doubt they will be back - and no doubt will be at work tomorrow telling all their mates what a joke it was.

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2 hours ago, poundforpound said:

He had to ride … when you’re a jockey there’s huge pressure to deliver… but check how he rode it…he knew it was a “minefield/skating rink” and he rode accordingly 

Agreed......but similarly there are huge pressures from many other interested and invested parties for Racing to go ahead ,particularly on a Group 1 day etc.

Let's wait till we 'gather the facts' and the NZTR investigation should uncover if the Raceday checks were carried out in the morning AND if any process was triggered once the Senior jockey's concerns were expressed to the Head stipe.

Was it a casual mention while passing at the powder room door.....Oh that track looks a bit rough today !  'Nah ,looks OK to me !'

Jockeys know they hold a lot of power when it comes H & S issues .

Surely a concern would be something that a number of jockeys would discuss........safety in numbers ,not a lone bunny.

The process would then be triggered and as the process sheet in a previous post explains the various groups are consulted and discussion takes place . 

This obviously happened at some stage after the first race , and this led to the abandonment !

So.....gather the facts !

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Oatham needs to be held to account.

Too many indiscretions on his watch.

Seems to get a free run.

Agree Thief should never have ridden , punters should have been refunded his ride and Son Of Thunder.

Danielle's interview straight after the race gave the game away, 

What do you do ??

O yeah the poor owner pays.

Hope they get reimbursed more than the $150 fee.

Come on WellingtonRC / NZTR , do the right thing ffs.

Can't wait for Coppins column in the Raceform next week.

Tell us what you really think Desi.

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25 minutes ago, tasman man said:

Agreed......but similarly there are huge pressures from many other interested and invested parties for Racing to go ahead ,particularly on a Group 1 day etc.

Let's wait till we 'gather the facts' and the NZTR investigation should uncover if the Raceday checks were carried out in the morning AND if any process was triggered once the Senior jockey's concerns were expressed to the Head stipe.

Was it a casual mention while passing at the powder room door.....Oh that track looks a bit rough today !  'Nah ,looks OK to me !'

Jockeys know they hold a lot of power when it comes H & S issues .

Surely a concern would be something that a number of jockeys would discuss........safety in numbers ,not a lone bunny.

The process would then be triggered and as the process sheet in a previous post explains the various groups are consulted and discussion takes place . 

This obviously happened at some stage after the first race , and this led to the abandonment !

So.....gather the facts !

With attitudes like yours Tasman I understand why racing in NZ is a twilight industry, surely your comments are a fcuken wind up.

It is 2021 pal, not not 1965. Get a life

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40 minutes ago, TurnyTom said:

With attitudes like yours Tasman I understand why racing in NZ is a twilight industry, surely your comments are a fcuken wind up.

It is 2021 pal, not not 1965. Get a life

Explain yourself TT  !

You having a bad day down in Canterbury today ?

1965 was the year seat belts became compulsory in Cars. A good move I believe !

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4 hours ago, tasman man said:

Agreed......but similarly there are huge pressures from many other interested and invested parties for Racing to go ahead ,particularly on a Group 1 day etc.

Let's wait till we 'gather the facts' and the NZTR investigation should uncover if the Raceday checks were carried out in the morning AND if any process was triggered once the Senior jockey's concerns were expressed to the Head stipe.

Was it a casual mention while passing at the powder room door.....Oh that track looks a bit rough today !  'Nah ,looks OK to me !'

Jockeys know they hold a lot of power when it comes H & S issues .

Surely a concern would be something that a number of jockeys would discuss........safety in numbers ,not a lone bunny.

The process would then be triggered and as the process sheet in a previous post explains the various groups are consulted and discussion takes place . 

This obviously happened at some stage after the first race , and this led to the abandonment !

So.....gather the facts !

It shouldn't have required any comment from a jockey. The track management staff, club management and the stipes should all have identified the problem before they sent horses and riders around as crash test dummies ... again.

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On 12/4/2021 at 4:32 AM, poundforpound said:

My impeccable sources tell me that one of our most senior jockeys, his name rhymes with Thief, inspected the track pre races and advised the head stipe there were serious issues that could jeopardise jockey safety… but the head stipe decided he knew better and that he’d use the jockeys as crash test dummies 

Sadly our stipes and judiciary are looking more like a third world shambles every day 

If that is the case, that's really serious.

Obviously, there is a commercial dimension but that can and must never be allowed to override safety concerns. I've been a couple of times to meetings abandoned because of track conditions - at one, a hole appeared on the racing line after horses had galloped over it. Now, I don't know about turf management but I guess these things aren't always obvious at walking pace. I believe a horse galloped over a patch of ground where some drainage work had been done and the ground collapsed.

I've also been at a meeting curtailed because of a slippery bend - the old story of light rain on firm ground. Avoidable? In that instance, the rain was unexpected but even so I did think the course management was at fault. Two horses fell but mercifully no one, human or equine, was hurt. 

We've had inspections for fog and high winds but you can't blame any track for those and the jockeys have decided to continue in full knowledge of the risks. 

The point though is the burden of risk lies with the jockeys and the trainers not the head stipe. If there's an on course inspection required, it will involve stewards, trainers, jockeys and the clerk of the course with his team. The opinion of the senior jockeys carries a lot of weight but they usually want to race (they get paid after all) so if anything can be done to ensure racing can take place safely, that gets done. 

 

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many many moons ago we approached the NZTR with a weather/ track management/ soil management program to improve the tracks. We got as far as two weather stations and no more. Couldn't get them to continue with the data management program or any form of soil management. Graham Styles was the weak link

Weather for The Racing Industry v2.doc

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So the question MUST be asked if the stipes knew from a couple of sources the track was not in their opinion safe how then were they allowed to send the jockeys out to "test" the track????But once again nothing will be done nobody will be held responsible...the joke that NZ racing has become continues.

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So NZTR says they will compensate. The float fees say $1500 for a northern horse? And what if your horse is too tired to run the Captain Cook at Te Rapa?

Its going to cost TR  a heap. And Trentham is just up the road from Petone somebody could have checked. Trentham or WRC looked dodgy for a while

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It’s time Pitty stepped up and explained what role he had in this debacle 

Who exactly did he try to influence and what disinformation was he peddling ?

If it comes to Pitty and Oatham making decisions about jockey and horse welfare then we are in big trouble given that neither of them can ride ( other than in a golf cart or on a #7 bus ) 

C’mon Pitty, own this shambles 

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1 hour ago, Nerula said:

So NZTR says they will compensate. The float fees say $1500 for a northern horse? And what if your horse is too tired to run the Captain Cook at Te Rapa?

Its going to cost TR  a heap. And Trentham is just up the road from Petone somebody could have checked. Trentham or WRC looked dodgy for a while

The devil is in the fine print "Those horses in the abandoned races will be eligible for compensation in line with NZTR’s policy".  Compensation in line with NZTR policy is refund of nom fees etc not float fees.  

2 Group 1 days (Te Aroha and Wellington) abandoned in just over 6 months.  

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12 hours ago, tasman man said:

Agreed......but similarly there are huge pressures from many other interested and invested parties for Racing to go ahead ,particularly on a Group 1 day etc.

Let's wait till we 'gather the facts' and the NZTR investigation should uncover if the Raceday checks were carried out in the morning AND if any process was triggered once the Senior jockey's concerns were expressed to the Head stipe.

Was it a casual mention while passing at the powder room door.....Oh that track looks a bit rough today !  'Nah ,looks OK to me !'

Jockeys know they hold a lot of power when it comes H & S issues .

Surely a concern would be something that a number of jockeys would discuss........safety in numbers ,not a lone bunny.

The process would then be triggered and as the process sheet in a previous post explains the various groups are consulted and discussion takes place . 

This obviously happened at some stage after the first race , and this led to the abandonment !

So.....gather the facts !

You seem to be the token nominated apologist for any fuck up in NZ Racing TM……hope they pay well……:rolleyes:

Leo has already posted the criteria for handling such an event, which clearly was not followed, hence the investigation.

What we do know is that many industry people were put out, wasted their time and money, owners pissed off ( again ) and members of the public who were there for a day out, or were invited, went home wondering WTF that was all about, and like Col says above, and now telling all and sundry “ never again”…..

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18 minutes ago, Ohokaman said:

What we do know is that many industry people were put out, wasted their time and money, owners pissed off ( again ) and members of the public who were there for a day out, or were invited, went home wondering WTF that was all about, and like Col says above, and now telling all and sundry “ never again”…..

Fully agree Ohokaman...... There is only so much anyone will take..... Be they an owner, trainer or member of the public 😯

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Pitty has rung me, he has a plausible explanation for his role and what’s been attributed to him, but he’s reluctant to post here 

Meantime it seems more likely John Oatham decided he knew best again ….

He might be having trouble keeping in touch with reality because I attended a hearing last week in which the JCA described Oatham as an “expert”…. something I contested vigorously at the time and I contest it again now… he’s an expert at nothing I know of, certainly not riding or training….and it’s high time his lack of expertise was dealt with given the increasing number of concerns about his behaviour 

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The story gets worse if it is true...a trainer told me he was there from Friday afternoon and he is 100% sure there was no water put on the track as they suggested...so someone is telling porkies here and that someone IF it is true needs to go...why would they not have just put 30 to 40 mm on the track on Tuesday and let things be done naturally...or is that too simple of a thing to work out???

 

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The equipment is there at Trentham to have done work on the track early in the week say Monday then put a decent amount of water on say Tuesday 35 to 40MM then let nature take its course ..so why was this not done why was it not prepared correctly...is the course manager up to the mark....??? If not then why has he not been held accountable???

It also must be asked as all the talk is the stewards knew before the first race from many sources now I am told that the track was like ice so why were they not called off BEFORE risking anyones life by forcing them to ride in the first race....surely this is a huge issue to be fully investigated.....peoples safety should be paramount from those in charge.

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FFS....if you have the sensor monitoring system that I proposed 8 years ago, then none of this is a debate and we wouldn't have the problems associated with the actual data. I'm not trying to be a Norman know it all but you can have these bleats but if you didn't provide a solution, what's the point of the bleat. Doesn't surprise me that they are running for the hills because this has been going on for years and years. Inept management from the top is the sole responsibility of those at the top. If they don't listen then they are inept.

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Scooby is correct, there are two parties clearly at fault here 

The club and their track manager for not providing a safe track

The RIB / John Oatham for not listening to the best advice available about the dangers of that track, but even more alarmingly for thinking they knew best and thus sending the jockeys and horses out in a very high risk situation 

This is a huge mistake, an appalling error and and could’ve ended so badly for the industry 

Now, let’s talk about accountability for this dreadful transgression …..

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